Nature and Electric improvements

Ran PBR and I got to play DPS...It was me on Tiger, Quantum DPS, Light DPS ( who had no idea what he was doing), Mental and Sorcery. Now I was bottom, not by much due to the bad Light DPS. The 3rd DPS had around 50% more damage than me. The top DPS had more than double my damage. He had around 22 million compared to my 10.5 million. I seriously felt like a scrub. I did everything and I was paying attention to my parser throughout the run. My damage parser was showing me I was doing pretty decent comparable to what I do on sparring targets, a bit less but comparable.

That was until I saw the scorecard. OMG Nature is *** DPS because of the fact of this.

Pet powers have the pets helping them out. For every flip slash I can do, there pet is hitting just as hard, but my DoT are not, meaning I'm doing less damage. Even if I buff myself, I cannot compete. PERIOD!

Burst powers and build up (Light and Munitions) get to max damage really fast and pull ahead quickly. My nice hit with Flip Slash is not as nice as the 3 25K hit alsong with those multiple 10K hits coming from Light, Munitions, Fire, or even Ice.

DoT powers are so behind the 8 ball that the damage is behind because DOT damage is ***.

DOT damage is 50% of where it should be at. If the devs do an adjustment to DOT powers, the DOT we do should be based on our range, meaning DOT increase when in melee and mid range. This would boost DOT powers damage and help the power out a lot.

quote="Electrizzaro, post: 3652679, member: 2229"]I am glad that you like using weapons and that is what makes the power fun for you. However saying just spamming powers takes no skill is a bit off base. There are plenty of players that spam their AM and do crap numbers because they are not paying attention to their position, timing, adds health and counters. Knowing the ins and outs of your power is something that separates New players from those that take the time to figure it all out (vets).

Also I think using the same weapon attack and casting VB after it is just as boring as any 1234 power. I mean really, set up your dots then going into weapon attack into vb spam...boring. Every power that has an AM (all of them) can get boring if you get into a steady rhythm. That is why some many players want the ability to have variety in their loadout. That is why I suggest shockwave as an alternative to weapon attacks for those that do not like them. It fixes both issues. If you like weapons use them and do fine, if you like only powers then that is the solution and you do just fine. All the devs have to do is include it in the AM and make it suppliment the same amount of damage that the weapons are supposed to. It fixes both issues for both sets of players.[/quote]

The game has set up different powers to play differently then others to accommodate different player styles dots with weapons is one pets with weapons and powers the you have the am 1234 then the combo style 3ach is to play different then the others to give you a power play style that you like

The game has set up different powers to play differently then others to accommodate different player styles dots with weapons is one pets with weapons and powers the you have the am 1234 then the combo style 3ach is to play different then the others to give you a power play style that you like[/quote]

That is correct. I have other toons Fire, Quantum, and Atomic. I like playing them all and I do well at all of them....just not electric. Atomic is by far the most versatile power we have IMO (then again it has 2 AM's). The rest are not too bad, they all have good and bad, but Electric just has too much bad. The changes that people are suggesting here are overall good changes. As long as the power gets on par with the rest I will be happy, but I also think my suggestions will work best with rectifying the I like weapons and I hate weapons arguments that crop up with electric. I remember when WM was introduced and some people loved it and other hated it. IT was the same then that we still have with Electric now. The AM's were supposed to be the alternative to WM which most people took as "oh the WM uses mostly weapons and the AM's will use mostly powers". They were supposed to be balanced with each other, but along the way WM seemed to become mostly a support role thing and not a dps thing. I am still not sure if that is getting fixed with the weapons pass or not. So I do not see any harm in wanting a change to the power that will not only not change the playtstyle of those that like doing 50% of their damage with weapons but let those that do not like that playstyle mix it up more. It hurts no one and only benefits.

The only way to help with DoTs' set up time is to allow us to set up in 1 clip like other powers do. Which would never happen.

For nature, I guess buffing Briar's initial AoE tick would somewhat help and probably making Vine Lash' initial burst tick hit as an AoE too. Savage Growth could get some initial burst as well, currently this ability has around 1 sec delay before the DoT starts.

Same for electricity, their DoTs could use some sizeable burst components.

I understand the shorter Beserk for PVP, but not for PVE. Very frustrating that devs didn't take time to explain how that would "hurt" the game by giving Rage a melee damage super. I actually devoted time trying to boost my Rage alt's dps CR to get ready to dps raids again. I ended up just going back to being a carry in good groups, or middle of the back with weak dps players. I actually ended up switching to tank twice in PBR after our original tank quit or was kicked when I random queue'd.

Its very simple actually.
If Devs bring all power sets to their former/release time glory nobody would be interested in new power sets.

If you 1234 the setup of these power they would be just fine after the base damage was brought up.

Still wont be fine. Ice sets up with 3 in 1 clip powers and start doing max damage at "2nd" used power.
Human form Nature has to use 4 different powers on there own (clipping one of them with Weapon Buff) and starts doing max damage after a lengthy weapon combo clipped with 5th power. That is a brutal difference.

Best way to fix the issue with DOT powers is boost the DOT damage. It may not improve the power in initial burst area but on boss fights it would be a more effective power.

Instead we will see weapon damage increase that will balance out the power. I'm not looking forward to nature update.

For me though, I probably not even be playing this game, given content we have is not that great. I'm waiting for next month to see how the devs will handle T8 and if nothing changes, I'm out and I know Nature won't be fixed next month, so for me, chances are I won't be around when they get to Nature or probably any of the last four powers and honestly at this moment I do not care.

I think your missing what i'm saying. If you 1234 the setup of dot powers 123 then a big hit on 4 (harvest) like mental your setup time has just done great damage. Then after that your dots, weapon attacks and voracious will sustain your dps just fine if the base damage is brought up to par.

The problem with nature and elec isn't after the set up, the powers do fine after they get going (after the base damage is brought up of corse) the problem is the setup. Increase the setup damage and problem solved.

Ahh, electricity....
I only have one observation to add to electric. In the Demon's pit duo, there's a 2nd boss attack that emulates our "electrocute" power. Once it hits, it will drain my entire health bar - twice with a soder. That's almost 40k damage in less than 2 seconds. This is with CR adjustment as the boss is 146 and I'm at 158 cr. I know it doesn't damage split on two since my partner is similarly hit.

That is the kind of damage Electric needs. It exists in the game, I just do not know why the DEVS are so against this. It actually makes me angry that I'm struggling to compete with other Damage powers out there and yet I get killed with a stronger version of it as well.

I think it would be fine. Even if dot powers could clip the setup ice would still startup faster because they can setup before they even get to the adds. Making nature's setup work like a 1234 power would make it so nature won't fall behind other powers immediately. That paired with buffing dot damage to keep damage similar to other powers during boss fights is all it really needs.

I am kinda curious as to what will happen to shapeshifting after the weapon update. Has anyone said if their attacks are gonna be touched then, or they gonna wait till nature's update? I'm wondering because it seems like wolf will be useless for a few months if they wait.

Do you even still play

I'll come back if nature's update actually makes me to want try again.

I went on last night for the first time in several weeks.. 1/2 through an alert, went ya.. I know why I stopped playing. My Sub ends in 9 days.

Im sure Devs are curious too. I seriously doubt they have thought about it yet.

Wouldnt be surprised if only Spores DoTs get buffed and nothing else which would simplify Nature but make it playable.
If we actually need the old 6 DoTs set up to achieve 35,5K this would be the end of playing Nature for me.
Id play with 6DoTs only if it pulls of like 37-38K. Human form alone with 3 DoTs should be enough for 35,5K melee dps.
Its a common knowledge that Gadgets with stealth is way above 35,5K and Nature requires way more work than Gadgets.

#CrappyHealsforPresidentodOfDCUOTestServer2016

Agreed, I'm at my last straw with this stuff. If a human form build doesn't hit the benchmark its over for nature and it will still continue to be shunned for dps and only healed with which is sad. Shape shifting will never work like it once did cause of how fast they made all the other powers.

It's funny - you can take something like Roar, which to be effective requires you to A) Shape-Shift, B) Throw Carnage, C) Get in range.

Then compare that to Ice and you have a similar set-up time. The difference is that Arctic Gust is hitting for ticks of 20K on mobs and Roar is hitting for 10K on them if you're pretty lucky. Both powers have similar animations, but for whatever reason, Roar simply wasn't made to put out the same damage. The thought, I can only assume, is that somehow Nature would have spent the additional ten seconds setting up a DoT rotation first.... and that only works on combat dummies.

Shapeshifting to me has two potential solutions --

1. Up Roar's damage to complete with Arctic Gust and negate the Plant tree DoT's altogether when shapeshifted. In Wolf form, players still have access to other skills, but again, why not make them like Ice. Allow Swarm Shield to Reflect damage while in Wolf form, etc.

2. Make shapeshifting a Precision based set such that Wolf combos are actually comparable to other powers advanced mechanics and again, remove the Plant DoT's while in Wolf Form and let Wolf Form claw mobs to death with 20-30K finishers. Heck, my Mental toon was getting 80K finishers, so what's the issue?

Instead, what they've created is a very convoluted power set that is forced to rely on multiple shape-shifts AND the Plant DoT's to be even able to remotely compete, and by that I mean very remotely compete as in staying around 2/3 of the damage of other powers. This was mentioned as being a potential problem many times during TEST of the JULY 2015 update.

If the reason for gimping the Wolf AM damage was because of the DoT's running in the background, the solution would have been to remove the DoT's, not to lower the Serpent's Call and Roar damage. Seems like this would be a pretty easy fix. They already have it where some powers don't appear in your tray -- just make the Plant side's AM boost a power that cannot be placed on your tray if you have spec'd Wolf Form. Then up the Wolf damage to compete with Ice or Mental. Problem solved.

The only thing the Plant advanced mechanic needs right now is upping Briar when thrown after Savage Growth. The other DoT's can remain weaker, just like Munitions first round DoT's are weaker. Only on the third hit does Munitions gain a big damage boost. For a while Briar was getting decent first tick numbers, but then they nerfed it for some reason -- or messed up the Might scaling.

All in all, I think they could apply some easy fixes -- some of them almost immediately with a hotfix -- that would make the power competitive again. But you know, July 2016 is almost here and I believe it is shameful to have left two powers (both healer class) this broken for this long. I don't care what the "schedule" said to fix. My Mental toon didn't need a mid-range buff as bad as Nature and Electric needed to be unearthed from the tomb it got buried in last year.

I do not play Nature...let me stress that. I do not know the powers in depth at all. I do know that it uses dots and shapeshifintg and can throw up more than 3 dots like Electric by shapeshifting.

Here is just a thought I had and was curious what some of you thought about it.

What if each form had a different AM.
Just examples
Gorrila- Mobile AM
Wolf- PI AM (like quantum, gadgets, etc)
Dog- Combo
Bug- Pet
Human- Dot
Again just examples

Just some thoughts. I am sure it would take a huge amount of work but I thought it was a cool idea. It would become the most versatile power but very hard to balance. You could also tie some to melee or range or mid range. Again I do not play Nature but thought it was a neat thought.