More Difficult in Upcoming Raids

Yeah it wasn't a terrible DLC by any means, but I personally think its probably just on par with a few others that have also been and gone.

imo the DLC's that have been the best are the ones that keep me engaged for the duration of the DLC and I'm encouraged to still log in each day and play , especially when its the pull of the game itself and not just because I'm hanging out with friends.

The ones where that's actually happened would be the below in no particular order;

• Lightning Strikes
• The Battle for Earth
• Hand of Fate
• Origin Crisis
• War of the Light Part 1 and 2
• Age of Justice
• Teen Titans
• Atlantis
• Justice League Dark
• Metal Part 1 and 2

And that's about it, those are the DLC's where I've been most engaged, some of the reasons possibly subjective other reasons possibly structural to the DLC itself, some might be nostalgia.

If I'm being brutally honest though my overall engagement with the game has begun dwindling from Birds of Prey onwards with Wonderverse and Legion being the all time low, sadly if I'm being honest as well World of Flashpoint despite being a lot better than those two previous DLC's in many regards hasn't recaptured my engagement. I'm still playing far less than I have been in the entire 10 odd years I've been playing and although some of that might be a waning overall interest some of it almost certainly comes down to the content itself.

Of course that isn't just difficulty or anything either it's just outright quality of content and even story telling, it's almost like DCUO has lost its way in terms of story telling where it doesn't really seem to have much going on for it outside of a few voice lines, there's no massive underlying plot for example that moves from DLC to DLC that properly ties everything together like for example Brainiac, it's almost like it's so sporadic now none of its connected at all, not even loosely to the main original game plot.

I'm probably digressing somewhat, but was just chucking the thoughts out there, I mean when you're enjoying the anniversary event a bit more than the main DLC's... that's kinda saying something as well.

Do I even need to explain why this is a terrible analogy?

I know.... right?

It's not even like Tom Brady could spend replay badges and get all those rings in the first week....


Totally different.

It's different because

1. You're comparing football to elite raids when a more appropriate analogy would be football to DCUO and NFL to elite raids.
2. The very purpose of elite raids is to be a challenge for the best in the game.
3. You're trying to make a point using one guy. There isn't just one Tom Brady of DCUO saying elite is too easy; there are hundreds.
4. The skill cap in this game is not that high. There is no player who is too good to make a challenging raid for. It's been done in the past (recent past too) and can be done again, hopefully more consistently.

But sure, go on about how I'm just too good at the game.

Im just waiting to hear one single honest argument that draws a hard line in the sand. General claims like “its too easy” arent helpful feedback.
Also it’d be flat out foolish for anyone to take the claim seriously. Its such a subjectively driven, self centered claim.
If a pro receiver goes to a college team an wrecks, does that mean the college game was too easy? Sure it was...... for the pro.
If a pro pitcher goes to the minors an strikes everyone out all the time was the game too easy? Sure it was....... for the pro
Do i need to further explain why saying “its too easy” is an empty claim with no evidence or merit?

Said it before and will say it again. I think both elites are too easy (now that i know the raids an mechanics). So are they actually too easy or am i just one of the ones who figured it out? I think the latter but that comes from rational place of understanding that once you get good at something and know what to expect its of course easier.

Let me ask this (in an attempt to gather some actual info not loose hollow biased claims). How many of you claiming its “too easy” w/out supporting evidence are running it with specific ppl or familiar groups etc?
I mean, isint that valid info? Wouldnt it be useful to know if your hand selecting your groups with the best players available to you? I mean, wouldnt that give you the best shot at making it “too easy”?
Q up an take what u get an let me know if as still too easy for ya, just sayin lol

Nah...You're doing that all fine on your own. (And isn't that kinda the point of these threads)

You must be a blast at parties... No sarcastic joke misses your scrutiny,

1. That's kind of the analogy.... Tom Brady plays for the NFL.... it's implied.
2. It still is....
3. Okay... Sub "Patriots" (or "Bucs") for "Tom Brady"... Happy?
4. And that's still relatively subjective... as for most other teams don't even make it to the play-offs.

See? Play-offs are....

Uhm....... Someone would like to have a word with you....

Of course, a league run of a top league will have a much easier time than a pug group, but the former is much more representative of the target audience of elite than the latter, and thus the more relevant group in this discussion.

Subjective claims about difficulty have a lot more weight in this argument than you think. One alone might not be conclusive, but in great number, claims that an elite raid is too easy are a strong indication that it's too easy.

Not really trying to harp on ya.... but:

If Hannibal Lector (was real and) formed a group with Jeffrey Dahmer... their argument that "Human flesh is just too tasty" would still be considered rather "subjective".... and self-serving.

There are far more other players in the game that just the "top league"s.

If you consider the raid to be too easy because of your totally awesome playing skills... than relish in that satisfaction...

...and let others enjoy the game at their pace... and know that you aren't really speaking for them.


When the vast majority of all players join in on your sentiment.... then, you might have a more vaild point.

This is the moment where the main error of yours and of many of this topic is.
The main goal of any content is to bring as much money as possible to developers (through RB, Artifacts, subscriptions, TC or any other way ... these methods, by the way, have a point after which one person will no longer see the meaning of spending ... as a result, you will need to expand your audience to increase income ...).
This is what determines the complexity of the content. It will only meet the needs of a particular group when that group is the largest source of income possible for that content ...

You don't seem to understand that we're talking about a specific game mode designed for elite players, not the game as a whole. What the "majority of all players" think is irrelevant.

To put it concisely, if the purpose of elite raids is to provide a challenge to elite players, and hundreds of these elite players are not feeling challenged, then the elite raids are not fulfilling their purpose. It's as simple as that.

Before someone misinterprets my use of the term "elite player" or confuses it with "elitist," I am using it to mean "a player of a relatively high level of skill and understanding of the game," nothing more.

Why hasn't anyone left any feedback on ffe in the development thread since the changes went out a few weeks ago? Was like 2 people saying still too easy and a few saying felt good. Do players think they got it right yet aren't saying it? Are they thinking too difficult but don't want to be embarrassed? The devs have shown that they're willing to do their best to make everyone happy but people only post complaints. No feedback means they can only leave things as is no?

Thats what ive been saying aswell theres such little feedback on Test for these raids and now people are complaining which is good but couldve been avoided with proper feedback,in live server this is way more extreme people just stop playing the game over this.

*sigh*

Who says that you speak on behalf of "hundreds of these elite players"?

It's a version of a mission in a video game... One that is designed to be harder than normal.

Is it harder than "normal"?.... Yes?..... Than it serves its purpose.

- "It's only challenging enough when I say it's challenging enough!!"

Please tell me your logic isn't really "if it's harder than normal, it's hard enough."

And please tell me your logic is not that your here representing these “hundreds of elite players”.....
1) show me these hundreds, i see about 6 dif ppl claiming its too easy absent any factual proof
2) show me where the devs have said the player base at larges opinion on the matter is irrelevant
3) show me where the devs have stated the goal here is NOT to make $ but to appease you an the imaginary “hundreds” you claim exist an that your representing

Look, i have said repeatedly i think its too easy now that i have learned the mechanics. I want to be on your side. An empty claim thats its to easy because your imaginary hundreds of elite players think so is just not enough to get me or most anyone with sense on your side. The burden of proof is on you as your the accuser (to use a court of law analogy).
Also i think it will always be a hollow argument unless you or someone lays out a credible guidline of what constitutes an elite player in the 1st place. Mostly because a large part of your argument is that elite players should have more weight (or the only weight) in their voice on the matter so we need to know the criteria there.

It doesn't matter where you move the goalpost there's always going to be some people that find the content too easy until that size has shrunk to the point where the content is all but impossible to even the very best players in this game.

Whether you like it or not there has to be a balance between how many people might find it easy and how many people might find it a little too hard.

That's the point isn't it, elite is for "elite players" and you're right it shouldn't be confused with "elitist" but you don't get to define where that "relatively high level of skill" actually begins in terms of the players capable of completing elite content (although I expect your answer will probably just be "noobs should stay in normal right")

That decision rests squarely with the devs and despite the fact its floated a little bit over the years it's generally been relatively consistent in what its wanted to achieve subjectively sometimes a little too easy, sometimes a little harder, sometimes arguably just right.

The fact the developers have introduced the player set difficulty settings is probably an indication they're trying to work on it, but again you need to temper your expectations with an equal level of reasonableness, you can't expect even critical difficulty to cater to a very small minority, it's always going to be set at a level someone is going to find less than desirable.

I disagree with the yellow parts. It's possible to design and tune raids that even the best don't find too easy without it being impossible to everyone else. The skill cap of this game and the endgame population are low enough to allow that.

As for player set difficulty, it's a step in the right direction. I assume they're doing it because people (on both sides) have been unhappy with the difficulty. With this feature, even more people should be able to beat elite at level 1 and less people should be able to beat it at level 5.

I couldn't disagree more with the yellow part though. I absolutely expect critical to cater to the best in the game. I do not find this unreasonable at all. We're talking about a whole 5 different levels here, as opposed to just 1. How many levels do you want before the best can feel challenged? 10? 50? 100? I mean, come on.

Noobs can do whatever they want. I have no business telling people what they can and can't do in the game. But noobs, just like every single player in the game, are in no way entitled to an elite raid that's easy enough for them to beat.

So they're imaginary because I didn't include a list of names in my comment? Look, I run with these people, I talk to these people, I'm in discord servers. There are at least a couple dozen in my league alone. I have a good sense of what that part of the community feels about the elite raids of any given episode. No, I did not count them. It was an estimate.

Look, I get that it's easy to read my comment and think I just pulled a number out of nowhere, but humor me for a moment and assume that what I'm saying is true. What are your thoughts then?

Please stick away from elite raids posts if it to always say the same thing, what all you have been doing lately is asking for raids to not be very hard, Miserable is totally right casuals players can do easily stage 1, better groups can do stage 2 and 3, dedicated groups of more hardcore players can play stage 4 and 5, you are not happy if stage 5 is too hard? Then go lower difficulty,hothead hardest difficulty should be very hard deal with it or don’t play it. Devs are going in the right direction, if next dlc the raids are as easy as stage 1or 2 i just instantly delete the game and my whole league will do the same.
Critical if added in future raids should be only doable by very dedicated groups of fully geared players.

You could have stage1 2 3 4 for you and you would not be happy please I love DCUO so, let some content with this « very hard difficulty/almost impossible feeling » for the very dedicated groups and do the whole rest of the game that is avalaible

And please god sake STOP with this very small minority nonsense argument, we are 25 in my league and 25 to play stage 4 everyday so pls stop this argument is really outdated, there are far more players that want hard raids than some of you guys think, do you think DCUO players are worse than in other MMO like wow or FF? No, you have try hard and casual ppl in every game in the market.