Devs...why do people only want precision based dps for your elite raids?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Jay Smeezy, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. SekretVillain Committed Player

    Your parents might of taught you that gibberish but mine didn't and for good reason. Because it's all hogwash just just like its blind followers.
    • Like x 1
  2. SlumVillage New Player

    Lol, Gohan is one of the best might dps on server.

    Posts like this are why the powers will never be balanced.
  3. Zneeak Devoted Player

    Your first and own response to MY comment mentioned going back to AM's. Only after did you start to backpedal and suddenly talk about the game's state in 2011. You're welcome to forgive yourself, may the gods of reading comprehension bless your soul. ;)
    • Like x 2
  4. AV Loyal Player

    That's just the number of permutations assuming given ordered use for a loadout chosen from amongst all powers, then a reasonable subset of powers selected for specific purpose. If we wanna be uber pedantic and remove usage entirely, it would still be 42C6 = 5245786 for all options and about 18C6 = 18564 for only the "viable" options one might reasonably consider for a ranged DPS situation on a given power (power dependent). If we want to be uber conservative, even just tweaking a single power in a single one of my loadouts and determining optimal rotation for a slight change equates to hours of testing and averaging. Even for comparatively simple cases like LPVE, most people still can't come close to optimization. It's also important to remember this isn't as simple as finding the hardest hitting powers in DCUO because they all have different animation times and interactivity (clipping/cancelling/frames-to-next) with other powers that have an impact on overall rotation flow, resulting in unexpected DPS swings from subtle changes.

    Conversely, anyone with half a lick of sense who's leveled any job/class/role in a lot of other MMOs intrinsically divines the only possible min:max approaches, with variations being minimal and simplistic. "Testing" in most games is barely more complex than the effort that we put into determining the best pets/henchmen/trinkets. Eg. In FFXI/FFXIV the skill ceiling is brutally low for DPS (and really most jobs if we're being honest) and gear was/is the most important (practically only) factor. A lot of MMOs have more options, but min:max can still be done more or less at a glance. The MMO genre is very lowest common denominator to promote a broad playerbase, a problem DCUO handles by leaning heavily on the fashion show element.

    This is all a big part of why DW flurry is so mainstream: it's a canned solution to a complex problem and it yields reasonable results. DW Flurry is the DCUO equivalent of netdecking. Building for might is like looking at the field and making an original constructed deck, since information sharing for many powers is abysmal to non-existant at high levels of play and the might community is divided amongst every different power vs prec, which is one-size-fits-all. Overall, DCUO testing and optimization has more in common with TCGs than it does other MMOs.
  5. NotObsidianChill Dedicated Player

    I think its much more likely that you are just running with terrible prec dps if might dps besides maybe 3 powersets are consistently even close to their damage values in current content for single target let alone doomspin. You can parse side by side comparisons of pretty much every single power might vs prec with a troll buff like you would in content and see the prec side favoring single target. The notion that we just "haven't found the optimal might rotation" is quite laughable in this instance because it doesn't matter what gap there is always extenuating circumstances with might where prec remains consistent.
  6. Tabby Belle Well-Known Player

    So there are two best weapons (DW and TH), and three best powersets that are also on that level. Sounds like Might DPS is doing better overall. I normally don't care about the scoreboard, but just because of all this talk going around. I did the past couple of days. I'm still seeing Munitions, Quantum, and even Rage beating Doomspinners in random queue normal content.

    The people who read the forums aren't the majority, the people who post and interact on them (us) are even less, and elite competitive players (you) are only a part of that. They shouldn't base the game's play on a very select few that look to break the game and find/use any broken mechanic they can.

    If y'all queue up and play with us dirty non-elite casual players, and aren't only seeking the few times confirmation bias happens, you'll see that that game still has a good variety of powers and weapons being used. Most of us play for fun and what looks neat to us, not for numbers.

    EDIT: I do use DW/Bow (thanks to the information provided by YouTube and the forums) on one of my alternates to make the grind for SM, Catalysts, Collection/Style Drops faster. And I've used TH before Doomspin was strong, because I think the baseball bat and Mega Crush are cute.
  7. Hollow Gohan Well-Known Player

    Balance between weapons and powers should be based off maximum potential output, and to a lesser extent animation times and range. Might DPS isn't doing better overall when you compare the two to each other. You could say that might is balanced better when comparing to just other might powers since there are multiple really good powers at single target, and only one for prec. So in that sense yeah, might DPS is doing better. However, in terms of overall damage potential PLUS power usage, range damage, animation time and ability to jump cancel, DW takes the cake in every way vs might (aside from Nature and Rage in regular content).

    I'm not saying to mess things up for the non elitists. Every player should be taken into consideration when changing things in the game. However, this kind of change is healthy for variety in the game at the end game where there isn't as much, as you say there is for the non-elite casuals. It should still be a viable option, but it shouldn't outclass everything in Elite.
  8. L T Loyal Player

    I'm sorry but there's a lot of assertions going on in this thread that are, quite frankly, ridiculous.

    I'll go ahead and quote myself here: "when everyone is doing it, it's probably broken".

    Doomspin's problem, from what I can tell, is that adds never block in current content.

    As for flurry shot, it's still clearly an outlier. If it's actually working as intended, than 11 powers and 10 weapons need a ranged single target buff.
    • Like x 1
  9. Miss Adora Loyal Player

    I was going through and reading all the posts. Let's be honest not all powers are equal, there are some underperforming. But regardless, let's go back to the devs idea. Risk vs less risk, if you have a close range loadout, and a long range load out, the close range should outperform long range because the risk involved.

    The same thing should apply with precision. I don't have any evidence but I have seen quite a bit doom spin with 2h lately, that should out perform dual weld flurry shot base on it's close range. Then you have to look at AOE vs single target.

    Only way to find out Dual weld flurry is out performing might, is to have a range single target might loadout vs dual weld flurry.

    Doom spin vs close range might power. But the biggest issue not all powers are equal so with both situation it will vary on power.

    If long range precision is out performing close range might, then it is a problem when you go back and look at their argument of risk vs less risk.
  10. gemii Dedicated Player

    the simple answer is because flurry shot is constant mobile clipping damage which makes it the go to source for damage in elite content.

    Make the flurry shot combo stationary
    remove the ability to jump cancel with it

    see if elite raids are still dominantly prec flurry shot.
  11. WilderMidnight Devoted Player

    my fire guy is supposed to be a weapon master. as hes toon #6 progression on the character is tenuous at best. i can score him top tier gear but skill points are hard to come by and his best artifact isnt even level 80 yet. when i rolled him up (at launch) i selected martail artist for him but he's been dual wield since the FOS raids. there is a world of difference between playing him as straight up might versus putting all his skill points into precision and flurry shotting my way through content. You even get a really nice cc effect with dual wield when your supercharge bar is full. I don't even have any artifacts to beef him up.

    i don't understand why WM moves were left in during the revamp. Weapon Mastery was hated by the player base so much so that it essentially got left behind as we moved into AM's. I would much rather my special dual wield attack to be something that utilizes dual wield. I would much rather have my special handblaster move be a handblast attack...not a bow attack. I would like to see my special dual pistols attack be a dual pistol move...not a handblaster move. Weapon Mastery was unbalanced from the get go with the faster moves pulling ahead of the ones that had a longer set up.

    if it was just a matter of wanting to top out the scoreboard i could easily respec my main toon with 475 skill points to a precision build and arm him with dual blades. with my resources and experience in the game i could shuffle around my artifacts to the precision ones. Its no secret. It takes no special video game skills. It is not the player that dictates...its the power/weapon you use and with only a handful of both out there creativity and originality goes right out the window. I may as well just put on three clashing materials while i'm at it.

    i don't want to do that. I want my characters to play to their concepts. I also know I take those concepts more seriously than the average player. It was never a penalty in the pre WM/AM days...why is it now?

    the only thing i wanted out of the revamp was for my power to not get borked...and i ended up rolling a bunch of 1's in a row with it all being broken.

    thanks dev team!
  12. Jay Smeezy Dedicated Player

    I miss the sound and circle wm made on screen when done perfectly! Lol...
    • Like x 1
  13. WilderMidnight Devoted Player

    shame it wasnt loud enough to keep people from nodding off during boss fights.

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