Devs...why do people only want precision based dps for your elite raids?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Jay Smeezy, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. Proxystar #Perception

    Just teasing you're all good in my books :D

    Seriously though send scrim :p
  2. AV Loyal Player


    A statement of fact is not condescending. If someone is lumping themselves in with the large number of underperforming DPS, that's a personal problem. If someone is suggesting the average DPS doesn't markedly underperform, I'd question what their own performance is like that they don't perceive a disparity or wonder if they ever play with pugs at all. This isn't a controversial statement... in any game, really. There are a variety of causes for it but sub-par DPS has been an endemic issue in DCUO's gen pop for a very long time, partially owing to the game's complexity compared to other MMOs, and it's the biggest reason that pugs struggle in elite every cycle.

    If it wasn't an ego thing you wouldn't be the one suuuuuuuper eager to comp at the slightest challenge to your assertions XD. Comping also wouldn't prove either point either way, regardless of outcome. Hell, I can comp myself and do comparable damage, prec or might, ST or AoE. The problem is that you said that you can't...... soooo where's the logic in "fight me nao?" Have you considered maybe the fact you're fully prec spec'd and actively using prec means that you're currently more comfortable and better practiced with it? Or that your might loadout could be ****? Or that maybe Gadgets is simply easier to optimize with prec, it having already been studied to death, especially when you already know all the tricks? Or that you may personally be better with prec than you are with might? Again, tuck your epeen away.

    Lastly though, huge problem with your logic here: I don't really give a ****. You can think whatever the hell you want and continue to perform... how you do. You went from "reasonable discussion" to "COME AT ME BRO" in 0.2s which, combined with the fact I've already run with you several times in the past, gives me zero reason to give a single **** or waste my ig time.
    • Like x 1
  3. Proxystar #Perception

    Wait did you just call dcuo more complex than other MMOs?

    :confused:

    I think you need to play some other MMOs ;)
    • Like x 3
  4. HurricaneErrl Dedicated Player

    He has no clue what he's talking about. He must spend his whole time in that 5v5 barely playing. Talking in third person and self proclaiming to be the "lord" of a chat full of cancer takes the cake.
    • Like x 1
  5. SekretVillain Loyal Player

    That's not 2011 then, that would 2010, because 2011 it was f2p
  6. AV Loyal Player


    No u? Modern MMO combat is pretty tame. Overall, DCUO as a game isn't more complex but its ARPG combat system has a lot of variability. I find most MMO's combat systems to be pretty mind numbing. If it wasn't for DCUO's combat design I wouldn't be here.
  7. HurricaneErrl Dedicated Player

    Only everytime Plats uploads a new video. LOL I kid I kid, I know those boys are great at what they do..
  8. Proxystar #Perception

    The simplistic and fluent combat nature of DCUO is exactly what attracts a lot of people to it, it's almost nothing like a more classic MMO combat system which is far more complex than DCUO's

    DCUO is more like a generic action game than an MMO in terms of its combat system.

    Just go check out swtor, wow , ff14, just to name the obvious 3 that have far more complicated combat systems.
  9. Hollow Gohan Well-Known Player



    It's not an ego thing because I know the reason I'm asking for this is to prove a point and just that, and because I'm quite confident in my opinion on the subject, I decided that that would be the best way to settle the dispute. You on the other hand took it as a quick "ego challenge" for whatever reason, but I'm still sitting here telling you it's not. It's up to you. The fact of the matter is, and this is the third time I'm saying it, you and I have both made claims about balance here. There's nothing wrong with actually playing the game we are talking about to get an idea of who is right. It seems to me you don't want to bother, and you'd rather just talk.

    Also, I'm quite proficient with might. That is just my opinion, but like I said, the only way for you to know for sure is to run with me. If you have run with me as you said, why not let me know what your in-game name is to jog my memory. Only reason I say that is because I believe there is a flaw in your argument, since there is always a chance you may not have run with someone who is really good with Dual Wield Flurry Shot. This would shape your perception of the might vs precision debate quite differently than mine. That is why I directly asked you to run with me. Who knows, I could be completely wrong and you could completely change my opinion on the subject.

    So it's not because of ego or anything of that sort. I simply want to test it out. If you want to keep deflecting and framing it as a "COME AT ME BRO" thing when it's really not so that you don't have to actually defend your claims, by all means go ahead.
    • Like x 1
  10. AV Loyal Player


    I think this heavily depends on one's definition of complexity, to be fair. Eg. I consider FFXIV's system to be excrutiatingly simple both in terms of character play and in terms of its Simon Says mechanics, and I played it to death for years. FFXI's system is absolutely far more complex in design but in execution is still very simple. Execution in DCUO is pretty fluid with trillions of possibilities, moreso now with artifacts factored in, meaning that after all this time people still find interesting and novel approaches. The ARPG component is what sets it apart.

    Some of it can be chalked up to taste but sometimes things that look simple at a glance can be a lot deeper than things that don't seem as simple. FFXIV is a good example of an extremely shallow game trussed up to seem like more.
  11. Tabby Belle Well-Known Player

    All this complaining makes me wish that the game's creators took the suggestion that someone made in a previous "their damage is better than mine, nerf it" thread.

    Just make all characters, powers, and weapons keep their animations, but give everyone a damage aura that does the same amount damage (adjusted for CR) as long as you're attacking. The further away you are, the lower the damage the aura does to represent risk/reward of being in melee or ranged.

    Then all the "balance this, balance that" people will finally get what they want, and then complain that it's actually not what they want. People actually just want their own preferred play-style to be better.
    • Like x 4
  12. AV Loyal Player


    Was a discussion, not a dispute; you presented a personal issue in that your might output couldn't match good prec, you did not dispute that top might is the equal of top prec. Your logic here is deeply flawed and the concept that a comp with a different power could change your opinion is extremely problematic. Your problem had nothing to do with you vs others or your power vs other powers, it has to do with you vs yourself vis a vis you can't match your prec output with your might output. Comping other people on different powers has zero value for the discussion and doesn't inform your issue whatsoever. An appropriate challenge would be "prove to me that Gadgets might can beat Gadgets prec" to which I would reply: "I'm not gadgets and I'm not going to respec, so I can't personally do that. Anecdotally, I mostly play with some of the best DPS in the game, some of whom are DW flurry, meet or exceed their output, and have seen some Gadgets might users come close to that DMG, so it can be done. Your best bet would be to try your luck with other Gadgets users."

    This isn't complicated. You don't need to comp, you need to either accept that you may have one of the powers that simply does better with prec than it does with might (wouldn't be surprised either way for Gadgets), that you may not be as good at Gadgets might as you are with Gadgets prec, or that you may not know as much about your power for might as some others do, in which case you'd have to speak to people who are well versed in Gadgets might, not me. With essentially infinite variation on the play in this game, it's insane for any of us to assume we have the best loadout/rotation no matter how high our numbers or how long it's been since we've been outdmged, which is why a lot of us spend so much bloody time in front of the Sparring Targets.

    If it's not because of ego, than "comp" or work with Gadgets DPS, not random might DPS stating the obvious that there are might players in this game from a wide spread of powers who match or beat the DPS of top flurry users. That's not a controversial statement. Are they rare? Yes.... But so are top-tier prec users. Also, dw prec is super mainstream cookie cutter fair and, since the forum is a non-stop whine session calling for nerfs to everything under the sun, most good might players I know keep their cards closer to their chest.
  13. Proxystar #Perception

    I respectfully disagree.

    Having trillions of combinations, which I'd honestly contest anyway, it's certainly not that number, but nevertheless doesn't create complexity when its rather obvious to any exceptional player 99% of those combinations are so far from optimal they're pointless and unless you're role playing as xxBatman333xx they're entirely redundant.

    That imo isn't real complexity and only ever having 6 powers at a time isn't either... even moving from power to power there isn't really much complexity it's basically apply PI, if at all, find hardest hitting power within power pool available, consider appropriate range, consider st vs aoe, move forward.

    Im sure you'd suggest im over simplifying it and I'd assert you're over complicating it, guess we'll disagree :)
    • Like x 1
  14. Hollow Gohan Well-Known Player


    In my very first post it was pretty clear my dispute was that top might cannot match top prec on single target. My reasoning that followed is what you consider the personal issue, which was that I along with others who consider themselves very good with their respective powers in multiple DM E and PC E runs recognize Flurry Shot outclasses might single target. You firmly believe that is not the case and that a top might can beat a top prec, and that if I was actually good I would be able to keep up or beat those same prec DPS'. That is why I requested you to run a raid w/ me to see which one of us is right. You could easily have said at that point that you'd rather a friend of yours who is good with might and can "beat prec" run in your place.That comp is quite fair in my opinion, and is mainly the point of my entire argument.

    Well, with all that said, at this point there's no point in continuing, because I'm in no need of accepting anything or changing anything, especially in regards to Gadgets might. You're welcome to maintain your opinion.
    • Like x 1
  15. AV Loyal Player


    In FFXIV there was virtually no variability in rotation/loadout and optimal usage was painstakingly obvious. I could count on one hand the number of situations for which I'd consider subbing a sub-job ability in. I'm sure it's advanced some since I last played but it was far from complex. It was a lowest common denominator skinner box with a fancy AAA veneer and Simon Says end game boss mechanics ad nauseum. I could set my brain to autopilot.

    Conversely, there are 3,776,965,920 unique loadout variations available for my power alone in DCUO, neglecting weapon choice, role, combos, timing, rotation, and artifacts. If I count only the ranged DPS options for my power, there are still over 13,366,080 unique combinations, again without factoring in rotation, weapon, artifacts, cancellation/clipping, etc. Rotation itself adds even more complexity, eg. my optimal rotation is one stroke away from a 5% DPS loss for what would seem like an innocuous change, with additional variations with comparable gains/losses for different situations. There are also situational substitutions, multiple armories, etc. Min:max in other games doesn't come close to the kind of testing/practice we put into DCUO to be the best. Even something as simple as prec still has important nuances people need to get good with.

    Having to choose 6 powers is where things get real in a knowledge sense. MTG standard isn't made less complex but choosing 10-20ish unique non-land cards from ~1000 to build a competitive deck. It's the same for DCUO. Takes a lot more skill & knowledge to know what to bring with you as opposed to having everything and the kitchen sink available all the time just in case. The closest another game has come is WHM in FFXI where I'd have hundreds of spells at my fingertips + relic/mythic capabilities and use most of them semi-regularly, but their usage was still a binary if:then statement and the only real complexity the game had to offer was in the gear grind and macro creation. It was a far cry from DCUO's twitchier gameplay.
  16. AV Loyal Player



    Negative. You said, "Dual Wield is in the same place in comparison to Might as it was before the supposed Weapons Balance."
    I completely agree, as the same Might users are still meeting or exceeding the DPS of Prec as they were before the weapons pass. If you wanna revise that statement to insinuate Might couldn't/can'tcompete at all then cool beans... but srsly get out more. You followed with, "I'm a main might DPS, and I wholeheartedly concede I can not and will not be able to keep up on boss damage in a DM E run w/ a good prec unless a troll is running a Claw and Tetra for me," a personal concession that you can't do it (and also kinda telling in and of itself tbh). You didn't actually have an argument. Again, you went from vague statement + personal concession to "fight me." Comp isn't gonna change that you can't personally get gadgets might to outperform gadgets prec and I'm not a fan of gadgets so I'm not the one to talk to about it. You're trying to prove a negative in a profoundly asinine way. I also don't believe that you've not already seen might beat prec. I've run with you multiple times in the past. There are as many great might players as their are great prec players. Stellar DPS aren't easy to come by but they're also not so exceedingly rare that we don't run into them semi-regularly unless we only play within super tiny bubbles.

    You: "I can't beat prec with might "
    Me: "Maybe try different rotations or talk to other players for your power. Never safe to assume we're at our peak potential, no matter how well it seems we're doing."
    You: "Fight me!"
    Me: "Um?"
    You: "I refuse to accept the possibility my approach to might could be improved! Good day!"

    Cool... coolcoolcool. Anyways, save your breath. I rarely comp people and when I do it's for people who actually wanna get better or have a positive attitude. I don't care if you can't beat prec and you definitely don't care so you do you.
  17. Proxystar #Perception

    I think you're being a little too liberal in terms of what you consider to be a "variation" ;) but as always you're entitled to your view
    • Like x 2
  18. kingmasternova Loyal Player

    A sniper guns can do just as much damage as a sword. So in that mind all weapons & powers should do the some damage.
    Remove might & precision just use damage per second (DPS).
  19. Lord Of 5 Well-Known Player



    You are correct. AM'S did not come out in 2011 but that was my first response to the thread. My second response is the one you are quoting now. The Lord forgives you for your quick judgment.
  20. Lord Of 5 Well-Known Player



    DCUO launched on the Ps3 in January 2011. They went free to pay in November 2011. Between those time periods Sony was hacked but it was still a disc bought subscription based game. As most of have been taught as children it is a sin to question the Lord.