Congratulations On Nerfing TOTDe into the ground.

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Luke©, Oct 28, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TheLQ-DCUO Loyal Player

    I have even considered doing it myself, but the EU server isn't the busiest nowadays and I'm not the best tank so couldn't show from all roles. But who knows what the future holds.

    I would argue making alert/raid guides significantly shorter, showing clips of particular mechanics and where necessary adding annotations or even a diagram in rare cases. The shorter the video the more likely more of your viewers will watch through.

    There's no need to show the entire 5/10 minute boss fight if its a guide imo (unless it is for other reason).
    • Like x 1
  2. Proxystar #Perception

    Players being testers always brings with it a level of invested biases that some people do a better job of putting to one side than others.

    Not everyone that tests is bad, chill, as I clarified in my subsequent post with AV, its ok to be sweaty, but there's no need to be sweaty and a jerk ;)

    We both know full well some people in the end game elite community are less than friendly and some of them are testers who at times give less than reasonable feedback because of those biases.

    Testing for example with a group of people who are at the pinnacle of ability in this game will probably for example inadvertently tweak content too difficult because they're tweaking content to balance the ability of themselves rather than the bulk of the game.

    That isn't to say, make elite easy, chill and I'm not going to argue with you about it past this post, but players like that do need to remember good example that they need to balance their feedback expectations while also considering and at times perhaps even marginally discounting their experience and the impact that has on the content.

    What's been said in here already about testing for example with heavy gadgets prec users with max arts and tac swapping then adjusting up is probably a distortion of where difficulty can realistically sit for this game to be successful.

    Again im not asking for easy elite content chill and I appreciate your subjective view as to where it should sit even if at times we don't see eye to eye.

    In closing though also, if the devs adjusted it down we have to as players respect that's their prerogative and they're doing it based on feedback and likely game data we have to appreciate carrys the weight that lead to this change :)
    • Like x 5
  3. Essential Exobyte Committed Player

    Just make a special version that costs $10 a run that has bosses and ads with 100x the health value so those players who ask for health buffs can get a challenge they desire.
    • Like x 2
  4. gemii Dedicated Player

    Yeah uh… I sorta took a break from this game because of things like this. Elite is suppose to be hard not everyone is suppose to be able to compete it. Every raid seems to get nerfed kind of sick of it at this point.

    Why dont powers get nerfed as quick as raids do? Gadgets obviously outperforms every other power.. but somehow that continues to get swept under the rug no matter how many times it’s been pointed out

    I just have no desire anymore
    • Like x 1
  5. Bipolar Diva Well-Known Player

    • Like x 2
  6. Yass Queen Hyppolyta Dedicated Player

    You're making a great argument to eliminate elite content altogether.

    If the idea is to divert resources to niche content that is only for a fussy, impossible to please few then that's a problem. Elite should be challenging but doable-- making anything in DCUO punishingly difficult is frankly a waste of everyone's time and the team's resources that could be better spent on dozens of different aspects of the game.

    Also, regarding the tag "elite," there's no need to capitulate to a few crybabies on this. It's fine as as.
  7. Dominic Blue Committed Player

    Oof there's definitely a delicate balance between trying to make this game accessible to players of all skill levels. I worry that beginning players hop into STU TotD Event and go "what the heck", leave and delete the game because it's not an accessible Raid for novice players and there goes hundreds of potential subs. Then you've got players who've played for years leaving because it's old content nerfed back and forth with random inconsistency. It's a teetering fine line to keep all players happy and I don't envy Dimensional Ink's position, it must be tough. So it's really on the Testers to help out but if they're seen as being biased towards a small group of Elitist Leagues or like OP get snarky at the player base as a whole, who does that help in the long run? Certainly not everyone who plays DCUO.

    I'd love to help with testing but I don't have a dedicated gamer PC nor do I have the time. I'd like to just hop on my console and do Elite content as it was meant to but others have pointed out the PS in Elite is not the same with fewer lag issues on PC. So Testers are doing TotDE for PC not really PS4/5. And probably the same for Xbox and Switch. Just sucks all around to play this game for years and be told you're not good enough for the few players who find Elite too easy even though most episodes go thru ups and downs with various content bugs. I echo a lot of people here in I don't want Elite "easier" but I also don't want it to be un-fun slogs of time to do that you need the OPiest Prec setup to finish either.
    • Like x 3
  8. Essential Exobyte Committed Player

    Let’s not forget the brainiac ship and how (90% was it?) couldn’t even figure out movement mode. There is blame on both sides. But for those who want elite stuff, that’s a dying breed on this game. Having devs go back and tweak and refurbish elite stuff for supposed new content is a waste of time.
  9. Proxystar #Perception

    I actually don't think elite content should be removed from the game, I do think perhaps the name should be changed because the term "elite" brings with it, this horribly negative amount of toxicity.

    I think naming it something else like "critical mode" or whatever would probably be better.

    I also at this point would be inclined to think we ditch elite gear and just have BiS vendor gear, the difficulty of the game can then be shaped around an expectation that players gear up through drop gear again and then eventually get a single set of BiS vendor gear.

    Elite (Critical) content can then have its difficulty balanced around an expectation players have this BiS vendor gear rather than BiS elite gear from the previous DLC because the game is encouraging players to do nothing other than transfer previous BiS elite gear with new BiS elite gear skipping everything else.

    I think this is one of the primary issues affected the ability to better balance the difficulty of content. Doing this would also eliminate the whole "Why can I beat elite with last DLC's gear".

    This also means we get rid of the ridiculous renown spam at the start of DLC's and can say, well if you want to beat elite, you work towards it, it gives the players something to aim for throughout the DLC, rather than just spam 9-12 runs of a raid then bail for 3 months.
    • Like x 4
  10. AV Loyal Player

    Elite isn't supposed to be gatekeeping. Elite feats are supposed to be gatekeeping. I don't understand the sentiment of players wanting elite itself to be unapproachable content when we specifically have feats for that.
    • Like x 8
  11. Proxystar #Perception

    I totally agree, unfortunately said, same elite players are also the first to complain about how easy content is only after they've cheesed those feats by either engaging a random speed hacker, hiding in lampshades, hiding in window sills, flying in the air, speed running up walls, list goes on, but the willingness of elite players to do this and then complain really probably isn't helpful lol :D

    That's legitimately why I don't ask for feat nerfs, I can't remember a time when I have and if I have I'd certainly withdraw that view.

    In fact probably rewarding those types of feats more in lieu of something like elite gear itself would provide the best players with the carrot they really deserve in an appropriately gated fashion that sits over and above more efficiently other progress.
    • Like x 2
  12. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    That is another topic all together, it becomes almost unfair to design content around what hardware players have. Developers and testers can't just work off the assumption that players have poor internet and old PS4's that have dust caked in their fans so every attack or mechanic has to be delayed enough to incorporate players with 10 ping and 500 ping. There has to be some give and take on that. There are also things that PS5 can do that PC can't with regards to gadgets and stealth and to somewhat a degree mental invisibility.

    Players may discount the CR Scaling based system but it led to some of the greatest balance this game has ever seen. Content and Feats were very difficult (for example DWFE) even with max vendor gear for the current episode but when you had new dlc gear they become statistically easier. The higher your CR the less dmg you took to reward having better gear. While DPS was dependent on CR as well that could have been tweaked to combine stats like we have now. Survival Mode was much easier to scale and create increased difficulty levels. Older content like batcaves were much faster because you completely overgeared the content. CR Scaling System is what really should looked at again rather than the complete mess of "stats revamp"
    • Like x 3
  13. zNot Loyal Player

    Actually what gate keeps players in elite raids is the Meta,many groups dont a want power troll they want a buff troll,a healer that spamms eog,dps that are prec and gadget or other meta stuff.
    • Like x 1
  14. zNot Loyal Player

    I agree i loved the CR scaling aswell.
  15. Proxystar #Perception


    What do you think though about just making some feats so hard that even the best of the best are unlikely to be able to get them while a DLC is relevant, when you think about it, we have a 3DLC window worth of progress to play with when it comes to balancing the difficulty of feats before it moves off in to stat clamped oblivion?

    Could some feats be so difficult that even the best groups are likely to need at least a subsequent DLC's worth of progress or do you think that amount of progress would not be enough progress to make enough of a statistical difference? Just thinking out loud.

    Also I'm all for increasing stars on feats that present more of a challenge, in fact even as it stands it blows my mind that some of the most difficulty feats in game will be 10pts and absolutely stupid ones are 50, I know some need to be 50 to give more casual players a carrot too, but none of the super hard ones should be 10points that's for sure.
  16. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    I would love that direction, the only issue there lies with the developers. There hasn't really been any creative elite feats besides no death feats or speed feats. Everything else mostly just takes time but doesn't fall under that degree of difficulty and while speed feats are fun and I personally love no death feats it can also depend on the instance itself. Because of bugs or mechanics that don't always work say like FFE no death feats can be a chore and not welcoming. FGSE was a bit better in that regard. If there could be a concentrated effort to create more interesting and challenging elite feats I would endorse it 100%. The primary issue I see is when we are testing raids on test the elite feats normally aren't even done yet. It has been the case for awhile where the elite feats come after the fact so we have less time to think about them or how they would work and at that point no changes could be made.
    • Like x 3
  17. AV Loyal Player

    The 1-death limit is really to blame. Back when there were infinite rallies, they could make everything much more challenging because bosses could stack gross attacks without it being cheap. Probably easier to design when there's a death limit but it's super limiting in that, like you said, we can only really get speed feats, no death feats, team-jumprope (eg. True Gem) feats, and grind/rng feats.

    No modern MMO does raids particularly well for similar reasons. FFXI did extremely large scale group content amazingly but modern MMO conventions have made raids pretty lowest common denominator due to there always being, to some degree, Simon Says elements. To do truly challenging stuff I think they'd have to get creative with unique situations (like the Spindrift pipes room) or by having more situations requiring a party split with concurrent activities (or by removing the death limit again). Extremely hectic and busy fights are a way to go as well. Barring that, I'd prefer they focus on making challenging Elite Alerts, since with fewer players the difficulty can be jacked up higher.
  18. Proxystar #Perception

    Agree, Perhaps it would be more ideal if they could get an idea out earlier as to what the feats are going to be then you could make sure when testing that the instance isn't broken to the extent where that feat is going to be undermined, rather than just is the instance itself at a base level difficulty enough.

    It's a shame too that the devs aren't say more proactive in removing feats from people that clearly cheesed or cheated their way to get them, as you'll know COUe speed feat and we didn't see any of those removed despite the fact as you'll attest most of them cheated in those early few weeks. :)

    Probably the reason why I hate speed feats a little in general because it provides a temptation for players that might otherwise be genuine to obtain the services of a less than desirable person to do 'you know what', they also tend to feed in to the absolute maximum meta, which is probably something most people acknowledge has turned in to a bit of a problem in some regards.
  19. Essential Exobyte Committed Player

    Besides trying to name stuff from the weather channel or hospital terms like ‘critical’ difficulty, why not go back to the system that HoP1 has where there are 3 raids and each is either ‘easy’ ‘medium’ or ‘hard’ as those terms are difficulty based names…not critical. To me, critical means important, so let’s name it ‘important difficulty’…umm wth.

    Of all the games I play like call of duty campaign stuff, I have never ever come across critical as a difficulty selection. Who knows. Prolly some new nut who never played a game before trying to name stuff. Lol.

    And yeah, those elite spams and wonder why stuff is beatable…back in the day you had to gear up just to beat raids and today you go in and wipe the floor easily.
  20. Proxystar #Perception

    I did honestly myself question recently whether it wouldn't actually be better to get rid of the death counter, opinions on the death counter seem to be a little split, perhaps its time to mix and match, perhaps some instances or even particular fights could have a death counter and others not depending on what the developers are trying to achieve based on the difficulty.
    • Like x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.