Congratulations On Nerfing TOTDe into the ground.

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Luke©, Oct 28, 2021.

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  1. AV Loyal Player

    Yeah it's not all sweaties though. Testing is effectively unpaid labour and it's kinda a pain in the *** to setup, so I didn't test this content aside from a cursory look at allies as ToTD doesn't really pique my interest... but when I do test content it's usually generally with a spread of other sweaties and the discussion is pretty grounded in reality. It's usually like "ok we beat this via such & such a method, but that's gonna be brutal for most people" and then there's a discussion about if it's just right or too hard and how to word the feedback so a change doesn't go too far in one direction or another. The only times I've seen buffs requested is if the content is a complete walk in the park.

    All that said, I feel that STU is a special case and that they should stick to the difficulty of FoS & IS, as it's enough to force players to respect some of the combat mechanics while still allowing the grind feats to be reasonable to spam. It's just filler content after all. If someone's already done their STU grind feats, there is zero reason to do ToTD so making it suck just punished the people who expected content to be consistent or who didn't have time to grind like it was their job.

    Edit: What does really piss me off though is when a feat gets buffed after content is live. Completely devalues the feat. Feat was easier than intended or easily exploited? Well if people already got it then it should be "too bad, we can't fix it now without undermining the game's integrity..." or they reset the feat for everyone. But it happens frequently, eg. Omega Level Pardon originally only requiring the breaking of the first beam timer, Raving Mad going from easily exploited to virtually undoable for a while due to several infuriating bugs, Future Perfectionist being completely exploitable originally, FGSe Zeus originally having no mechanics, FoA originally having a permanently open first boss tele in elite, etc. Some of this could be due to feats not always being up on test before stuff goes live... but fml. I feel bad for anyone who has certain feats legitimately during periods where they were exploitable.
    • Like x 8
  2. Proxystar #Perception

    Agree, with what you say, that's why I used the term a few, because it's ok to be a sweaty, but it's not ok to be sweaty and a jerk, you don't have to be both, but unfortunately some are jerks, but some are also nice. :D

    I think also it needs to be remembered StU is an event, so much like the anniversary event it needs to be balanced slightly more around that premise, naturally resulting in a slightly less than regularly intense experience.

    Appreciate your posts AV, as always..Keep up the good work ;)
    • Like x 3
  3. Luke© Well-Known Player

    Again they shouldn’t create Elite content for the masses it’s for the few. Elite is supposed to be difficult and to all the people complaining they were stuck on first boss for 2 hours that’s on you and your group clearly you weren’t good enough. But it’s fine they nerfed it so now all of you who don’t bother doing mechanics and are genuinely terrible at your role can complete it. This game is just becoming too easy in all aspects of it. Nah aswell take Elite out of the name of the raids.
  4. Bipolar Diva Well-Known Player

    Good morning. You have death proof to chase. Let it go. So much more in this world to be angry about if you need to be angry.
    • Like x 4
  5. Harlequin Devoted Player

    This is the only thing you have ever posted that I agree with. They should have been called "Heroic."
    • Like x 2
  6. TritonD3 Well-Known Player

    It’s hard to agree with OP when A. It’s the same five people (and their alt forum accounts) complaining ad nauseum about elite difficulty. B. These people (and their league) are all using meta builds and exploits and C. It’s a pissing contest for them and they can’t stand the idea of some filthy casual PUG wearing that super shiny elite gear.
    • Like x 11
  7. Bipolar Diva Well-Known Player

    Certainly reads that way.
    • Like x 4
  8. Siramez Well-Known Player

    you're acting like this elite is only completed by your and your 7 friends, no one is allowed to do it, also if you want the raid to be difficult, maybe dont be a sweaty dps, aka gadgets spamming stealth bug 24/7 (Lets not forget triple clipping gadgets is a exploit and yall abuse it 24/7 for "difficult" content) and actually use something else? maybe dont do meta strats like eog spam. but nah, you and your 7 groups wont do that because you want to be WoRlD REcORd ToP LeAguE blah blah. you're asking devs to only allow tode to be accessible by you and not 99% of the playerbase, thats how you kill the game very fast.
    • Like x 11
  9. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    The issue that steams from testing or balancing elite content in this game is that the testers that take the time out of their schedule to set up multiple elite runs after each hotfix or bug fixed are players that can understand, grasp and follow simple mechanics. Take for example judges blue beam or the purple egg style aoe. Testers would know you have to block to survive or run away from the group and not group up so when a tester gets a death they know what and why and where the death came from instead of a player blaming lag or "crappy dcuo raids" for their death and refuse to take any kind of ownership. What we can't control is the level of effort so called "end game players" want to put into the content. Clocktower was a great example of this, I cannot possibly think of a more basic mechanic than "Player 1 = Red, Player 2 = Blue and if the opposite colours get to close = boom" I could explain that mechanic to a elementary student, yet the playerbase cares so little to grasp that simple of a mechanic and have to cry and scream and throw a temper tantrum on the forums that the entire mechanic gets removed from regular. So then the same players complain about elite clock tower being too difficult because all of a sudden there is this new mechanic that isn't in regular now they have to deal with it all over again. Then its not the colours then its the pools that are placed and players cannot even have the situational awareness to not stand in an apposing colour pool so those spawns are further delayed.

    It's easy just to blame "toxic elitist end game players" when we continually see basic everyday mechanics reduced in effectiveness because of how pathetic the effort level of the average player is in DCUO and we can't progress as a community until that is a true realization and not just scapegoating the end game community who want simple mechanics upheld in the content that they enjoy running.

    Like I always say, you will never ever see a "end game player" in a thread asking for event or regular to be nerfed or tunned because that isn't the content we focus on, on the flip side of that you will see an army of regular players in elite threads asking for everything to be dumbed down to a level barely above regular consistently.

    Now I ask you Proxystar or anyone else willing to quote this response, how can myself or Luke or any other tester for that matter try to balance or tune elite or any endgame content when the above is what we are dealing with each time?
    • Like x 3
  10. zNot Loyal Player

    Facts,they shouldnt mention skill when all they use is everything meta,true skill is shown when players are somewhat equal and without a gap and its on the devs to balance these OP things.
    • Like x 1
  11. HurricaneErrl Dedicated Player

    The content is called "elite". That by itself means that not everyone should be able to complete it. Only a fraction of any population is considered "elite". If everyone could do the same thing then there is nothing elite about it. My suggestion is just drop the elite tag already and call it level 2 or something lol
    • Like x 3
  12. HurricaneErrl Dedicated Player

    To be fair though, metas play a pretty big part in being elite in anything you do. The best athletes aren't out here using half-***** equipment. They use whatever helps them run the fastest, throw the furthest, shoot the hardest and most accurate, etc. It is the same thing with MMOs. Of course there are a few who can rise above and get by off pure skill, but even they are grabbing onto whatever meta they can in their respective sports to get that edge. Goes the same for business too.
  13. TheLQ-DCUO Loyal Player

    While I agree with your post, there is another problem in the community at the moment and this has been an issue for a while.

    There is a severe lack of guides on how to go about certain content. Not just on YouTube, but on the forums and any wiki pages as well.

    One of the only players in the community that sometimes does guides for DCUO content is yourself - however I will admit as your commentary videos can be long that I haven't always personally watched through all of your videos. And I'd imagine there will be players who haven't got a spare 30 minutes to watch through a video either - and with there being no real alternative in the DCUO community at the moment players are just expected to get on with it. 'Git gud'.

    Meanwhile in FFXIV you have an abundance of wiki written guides (as well as YT) on how to do certain content. Examples:

    These really helped me out when I started levelling in FFXIV. With DCUO there really isn't anything like this which in part contributes to the issue.

    Furthermore there is a serious issue with messaging mechanics in this game. This can make some content appear more difficult, however the issue is more with messaging rather than the mechanic itself. For example if in TOTDe the judge allocated a purple arrow on a target player before pointing at them and giving them the eggs, it would be more of an indicator for that player to be the target, and therefore prepare and move away from nearby group members. Trying to look out for an NPC that may or may not point in your direction (unless the NPC is quite big) especially with other mechanics/animations ongoing might be a lot to focus on for some players.

    Also, most boss abilities appear in combat tab only. Less than 1% of the community will ever look at the combat tab, for example to see what boss' ability hurt or KO'd them. In FFXIV that boss ability is on screen (with a cast timer) so players can look at the mechanic in question and prepare accordingly. Mechanics in FFXIV can often seem more fair in comparison. This is however partly on the devs, as rather than make mechanics message better and clearer, they will tone down and nerf certain mechanics instead.

    If in Clocktower for example, there was a clear guide with a diagram in how players should position, would it have caused as much of an issue?

    In summary, while I support having harder content, said content also needs to be messaged better, and ideally we need more content guides in the community - more especially for elite content. Players who are getting stuck can then read/watch those guides and get better at the content in question, closing the gap between casual and elite players somewhat. This will be healthier for all of us going forward rather than this divide at the moment.
    • Like x 4
  14. zNot Loyal Player

    Yea i know but in this case most of the difference is on the meta why do endgame groups have x times more damage then other groups? Because of mostly buff trolling,gadget dps and eog spamm these are the 3 big ones will endgame groups do more damage because they are skilled? Yes but not with a insane gap like we have now,the ares fight proofed how effective the 3 things i mentioned above are.
    • Like x 2
  15. Mr.W Well-Known Player

    Step 1 experiment with different play styles, powers, arts etc each run lol. (We all know that prec has a 33% self buff & a 20% troll prec buff without the claw art. Thats nearly 3x the output trolls can give might players with the claw... & its speed along with its ability to easily clip changes the difficulty of content in itself. We have to play it on both ends to find a happy medium.)

    If I remember correctly last hotfix I saw regarding the judges they just gave a skull tell & a bit more reaction time to block and such which isn't bad. Every boss with a 1 shot mechanic are supposed to have those & the added reaction time was more than likely for might players who can't jump cancel out of animations as easily which would be a play style balance. If there was an update to the judges after that let me know to take a peak.

    Youre on pc so I'm sure your frame rates are smooth but there are times when consoles do lag badly & thats for every game not solely dc lol.

    I'm not sure what you mean about ct reg. The colors never stopped swapping in reg & id have dig through when I have time but I think a dev actually posted the pools weren't supposed to be in reg if that's what you meant. As for ctE I'm sure ppl wouldn't had mind the pools as much if the room was bigger or scaled to 8 ppl with them lol. For me the room was more manageable with fewer ppl which creates more difficulty in itself, but thats from my experience.

    im not saying you have to walk on eggshells, or youre a bad person, but its unnecessary to call ppl pathetic & such as if you're looking down from some imaginary throne.

    Lastly, nobody is saying bring elite down to equate to event lvl lol. I think the biggest reason for this change is to make it more accessible to players who are very good & well above average where its clear their skills are above reg but might not have reached the point of(as one poster coined it) super excel (with mid fight art swapping and such) which is a good thing.

    If there's a thread I missed or hotfix I left out that I need to read back on, POLITELY tell me.
    • Like x 1
  16. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    That is something I can certainly look to improve upon for the next episode. I will admit the guides commentaries to do because I can be highly detailed in my explanations which leads to less editing and footage required. Its a monstrous amount of work to do a proper guide having different footage showing each situation and what happens when you fail and different role positioning's and then you need 7 other players to technically co-operate with you to be able to get the footage required and then have to edit it all together.

    But for the sake of my own argument I will start that and maybe even consider doing it for past elite instances in a series.
    • Like x 3
  17. Mr.W Well-Known Player

    Thats very true through & through. Even though its nice for players like Geoforce & Obsidian to do guides it would be more helpful to the community as a whole if the devs streamed a run with players for a guide too & explain mechanics for players to easily revisit.
    • Like x 1
  18. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    Id have to go back through the hotfix's to see exactly what Quitoxic changed with clocktower regular but the pools and the colour damage was always intended for regular, what wasn't intended was for the average player to ignore it which lead to regular being much more difficult then intended and thusly they were removed. As for the room size of Clocktower that room is larger than the space we have for Trigon SM. If you can do multiple rounds of Survival Mode with multiple bosses and adds and boss mechanics in that space a group can certainly spread out enough in Clocktower but they just want to tunnel vision on dps which leads to mechanic failures.

    I wasn't calling players pathetic I was calling their effort level as such towards DCUO. There are plenty of examples of seasonal instances being reduced in difficulty, duos, alerts, raids etc. You can't be a tester unless you are able to put yourself in the position of other players and roles and I do that just fine which is when you have simple mechanics that are laid out and simple to understand yet its said to be too difficult is where I mention effort level. If a player doesn't want to block or role or move so they can keep dpsing or expect a healer to save them or a page artifact proc how can I not question their effort level at that point? DPS is already dumbed down to what it is from pre-gu36 so you don't have to put such a high level of concertation on your rotation it's either a combination of 123456 or in prec just a few PS buttons repeatedly, there is enough time to have mechanics and rotation too. There is no throne, there is just a player who is extremely frustrated and feeling helpless.
  19. AV Loyal Player

    TBF, most FFXIV bosses are extremely scripted to the point that it's just team-jumprope where the group is pretty much always only as good as the worst player / the player who hasn't memorized it as well / the player with the most lag or worst connection. Until someone knows exactly what to do they're impossible and once they do they can pretty much do bosses with their eyes closed, so write-ups are pretty critical. DCUO still has scripting like most MMOs these days but it's not usually the kind that requires detailed write-ups and there's usually sufficient in-game explanation. This is why I despise CTe lb in that it's basically a FFXIV-style boss to the point it's easier with fewer players and insomuch that, when people know what to do, connection/server RNG is the deciding factor and not actual player skill. Also CT had a gross bug forcing us to lock FPS or the pulse bots would go berserk that took way too long to identify. It was not released in a good state. Basically it's an easy fight masquerading as a challenge due to FFXIV style "one person lags/bugs/screws up and the whole group wipes" team jumprope mechanics which makes it a very un-DCUO experience.

    Also, FFXIV's wiki content being more detailed is partially due to the extreme level of detail in its predecessor's wiki, FFXIclopedia, when FFXIV first launched. Since FFXI didn't use over-scripted bosses, players (especially WHMs) had to know every single detail about every single boss attack and their probabilities. I'd argue that the FFXIV wiki is extreme overkill in that for most fights, all that's needed is "stand here... do this... don't do this" but it's nice that the wiki quality carried over I guess. Aside from specific feat guides/breakdowns, It's harder (and kinda pointless) to go into that level of detail in DCUO aside from what's already obvious (eg. Dodge skulls and heed prompts) and the character build complexities heavily affect how a group can approach a fight. DCUO is more about personal performance than test-taking.
  20. Mr.W Well-Known Player

    Definitely link it to me if you find it. It's been a while but I do kind of remember it being the pools in reg being a glitch that was fixed when it was removed. But yes the color swap damage was always supposed to be there & to my knowledge was never changed.

    To be fair there weren't too many "social distance" mechanics back then & there certainly weren't massive AOEs that all spawn at once during the "social distance" mechanics in that room lol. (If you're talking about trigons prison) the titans duo area is bigger in my opinion and that was still designed for only 4 players with sm

    In my experiences whether I pug, make a group, or league runs if someone got caught by a one shot, most of the time it wasn't b/c they refuse to stop dpsing, it was b/c their power locked them in animation & they were unable to block or roll. I understand those things happen so I don't mind the the tell & added reaction time.

    I think might powers have gotten passed 1234 lol. Artifact abilities does free players to make better use of formerly less desirable abilities. Now while those abilities may not create super excel loadouts they can be a fun & effective break from metas.
    • Like x 1
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