Stop simplifying Arenas

All this all stems from is PvE players not wanting to learn the game's counter mechanics. They complain about Home Turf being removed from PvP because they don't want to have to actually rely on countering and not their multiple self-heals. Then complain about counter mechanics in PvE because they don't want to learn how to counter bosses/mobs and just like spamming powers with little thought process.

Not ALL PvE players, I just mean the ones making these types of threads. I mean... all forbid they have to actually look at the screen when they play... Jeez...

@OP

First off, HT needed to be removed from death matches, as there was no other way to win aside from killing the other team. If the other team never died due to all the supply drops, accomplices, etc we would never have clear cut winners. It would always be a tie. The only other thing I would say that the devs should remove from death matches is group sodas, but that is for another thread.

The trinkets you are complaining about that got removed, were removed because they gave people an unfair advantage. All those PvE trinkets were completely lucky based drops, or seasonal drops, which were not available to everyone at all times. Arena needs to become more like Legends. It is pretty close. All that needs to happen is PvE be removed from PvP, or severely limited, and PvP get it's own expert plans and we are set.

I'm not trying to sound rude here, but your logic is "if you want balance go play legends", why should we have to go play iconic characters for balance? Why can't we play our characters in a balanced setting? It sounds to me like you are just afraid of an even playing field because without all those luck based crutches you are struggling, and because of your struggles, you had to come on here and complain about.

I've said this many times, and I will say it again. PvP is all about timing. If your opponents timing is even a fraction better than yours, you will most likely lose. Practice makes perfect. Keep at it, and eventually you will get there. Until then, stop complaining about things, and start asking for help. You might actually learn a thing or two.

On the contrary. HT added a new layer of complexity to Arenas that is now sorely lacking. Everyone with HT trinkets had to pay more attention to who also had them and adjust fire accordingly. Also, you had to adjust fire to target backup and sidekicks, and also pay attention and time a combat roll to get out from under an orbital strike.

Nope, without HT trinkets, all that happened was we took a step backwards in game complexity and challenge. All the mechanics were still there. We just had more stuff to watch out for, and I think it's lazy-minded people who don't want to deal with that, let alone put in the time to earn HT rent.

Yes, HT made Arenas complex, and here is why. All the mechanics you mentioned in your post were still there. You are assuming I was the only person using backup and henchmen. I had to kite 3 backups plenty of times.


Not only that, but I had to time my blocks and stuns to roll out from under orbital strikes without taking damage. I had to pay attention long enough to target accomplice/sidekick fast enough to prevent heals.

Arena deathmatches now are so simplified, I know exactly what moves people are going to use on me based on their power set. There is no secret weapon now, no surprise, no unpredictability, and no fun. Arenas have become loot lock and move on.

Your logic is flawed, and here is why.

An advantage is not unfair if everyone has the same opportunities. Everyone who plays this game had the same opportunity I did to earn marks and pay for HT trinkets. You make it sound like I'm the only person in the game who is allowed to bring HT trinkets to Arenas, and you are sorely mistaken.

It is lazy minded people who don't want to pay attention to what they are targeting that don't like HT content in arenas. With HT in arenas, you have to pay attention to not only block breaking mechanics and enemy weapon combos, but also your surroundings. That's why people didn't like it, because they are un observant and lazy minded.

Keep Arenas complex, please.

I hate having to fight 7 people in deathmatch. For instance, i take the node, in shadowlands, and then 3 adds spawn and attack me. Then my opponent pops henchmen-thats 7 targets to cycle my lock on, all while taking fire from all 7 of them.

That's a perfect example of timing. Use an orbital strike and AOE attacks to kill them all instantly. If you don't have an orbital strike, that's your own fault. You brought a knife to a gunfight.

Yes there's more chaos with HT.

But as far as I'm concerned Chaos is not fun.

I don't want any of the HT stuff because it dilutes the mechanics. Instead of being very much about the counter system and playing your powerset well, it becomes very much about using these toys.

It's adding mechanics to the system that personally I don't want there.

For me it's not about them being too powerful or their availability, although those are concerns, to me they just aren't fun.

Same reason I hate Super Smash bros on WII but think the N64 version was one of the best games ever made.

Having pve taken out of pvp is a very old debate. I don't care about supply drops or orbitals, whatever. I only started to agree after home turf allowed you to have like 7 pets out at once. If you recall, there was a huge backlash about the game becoming like Pokemon with its "gotta catch 'em all" being applied to pve pet trinkets.

You may think those people who complained were whiners but too bad. A lot of people were mad and justifiably so at having to fight 6 npcs in a 1v1. But instead of just banning henchmen, the devs banned every other pve pet trinket and form change in the game. That's not what people were asking for yet you blame the players instead of the developers who made that decision? Really?

We literally can plead and beg for something and the devs give us the opposite of what we wanted or some new mechanic that doesn't address the core issue while creating whole new imbalances (immunity, movement mode debuffs, arena lockouts, etc). Ultimately we have next to no control on how they decide to balance their game so why don't you stop making things worse by trying to find scapegoats to blame in your little witch hunt.

Would you ever disregard the devs for removing lag ?

That's the only positive i see in removing home turf from arean's. Once the supply drops and pets come in, it goes from a fluid playing system to tetris.

I always thought that the HT crap is what "simplified" arenas. Oh, you should be knocked out by now? Supply drop. You wasted all your power? Orbital strike. You're just not that good? Sidekick/Henchman.

I suck at PvP now. Will this make me suck less? Time will tell.

Initially henchmen and sidekicks could counter players, but when countered grant no immunity--that was a BIG issue. You say complexity, I say EZ mode. Of course I've never liked having "things" do the work for me. When I did play around with a pet build it was a HUGE LOL.


LIke JEEBIE said, it isn't that PVPers cannot adapt, it is that these things trivialized the strategies that many of us took weeks/months/years to learn. Don't believe me, just look at how many changes were made to HT trinkets after the DLC was launched or heck, even pull up the notes from Test server at that time on the archives. It was pretty unanimous that most players disliked the features.

When someone uses video games and the word complex in the same sentence...

Chaos is a good word to use to describe it. Maybe I thrive on chaos. Who knows? But it's the complexity that I loved about pets and trinkets in Arenas. It was really fun for me while it lasted. The unpredictability was exciting. Now it's just plain boring.

It definitely shouldn't take weeks/months/years to learn block real mechanics. It also shouldn't be a huge deal for this game to become more complicated as it gets older.

Who said video games?

I know many who enjoy the more chaotic games. Personally I like more simple playstyles One of the things that got me on DCUO was the simplicity of it coming from a much longer lived MMO. Going to 6 powers + Soder + Trinket, where I came from a game where I had 100+ keys ready to use. So personally I'm not even a fan of the utility belts . I've always liked the idea of less tools and more focus on how you use them, which is something in general DCUO does very well. I even play barebones on Call of Duty

And it didn't take weeks/months/years to learn block mechanics, but it's more the team mechanics. Setting up PI's for each other, getting your ideal role/powerset group, choosing your focus targets, designating BBers, screen blocking, etc. Then HT dropped and COMPLETELY changed the entire PVP game.

Finishers were very risky before HT, now it's a must have basically. Adding a defensive buff to a high damage finisher on top of making it no longer vulnerable to inturrupt... wow
Healers/tanks doing much more damage thanks to Core Strength.
Supply drops refilling power/health and a 50% damage buff for the whole group (if they just walk through it) IMO the damage portion is the real strength. Stack that with other trinkets and what not, I don't see how people could survive the onslaught.
Sidekicks for even more power/healing and some extra damage/cc giving a pseudo healer/troller to groups that may not have them or just need help.
Henchmen for added damage/CC and just general pet annoyances.
Regenerative Shielding (trollers with more healing out than the healer?!?!)
Explosive Block (yay node capture maps!)
Deadly Block (many of the kills in our premades are thanks to big counters)
Tumbling Mastery (rolling is so nice)
etc

SO many changes just dropped on us out of nowhere. It completely changed PVP and personally I'm really enjoying the recent changes keeping at least the trinkets out of deathmatches..

I've not really been a premade PVPer till very very recently (like 2 weeks ago was my first real premade experience ) So i'm learning quickly but I still saw the big change in PVP when HT dropped and I'm just not a fan.

It needed to go. If you don't think so, re-watch some of the old FNL 5v5 PvP challenges where a team would win because of only one kill. Real exhilarating "complex" gameplay there.

Woah, woah, woah,... Woah. Did you even read my post?

I love the HT trinkets, and I too share your opinion of HT being easy to obtain and that everyone should have them. You aren't going to get an argument from me on that topic. However, I can understand why they removed them from death matches. In death matches the only way to win is score multiple kills. When you have supply drop x5 or 8, as well as accomplice x5 or 8, scoring a kill can be pretty difficult. So I completely understand and support why they were removed from death matches.

As for objective game types, kills aren't the only way to win, you can win by capping nodes, or working as team in the CTF game types. So HT really isn't an issue in objective game types.

As for my logic being flawed, I don't think you read my post entirely, otherwise you would see that I agree with you. Before you comment on someone else's post, you may want to read the post in its entirety before commenting so you don't look as if you have no idea what you are talking about, because my last post was pretty clear, I have no issues and love the way arenas work currently.

The only things I am currently against in PvP at this time, is PvE items in PvP such as traces, 192 weapons, expert consumables, anything that is obtained via luck (I don't consider HT a PvE item or luck based items). I also feel PvP vendors should have access to all the expert plans and be flagged as PvP only, since we can't use PvP gear in PvE anymore. I want complexity, which is why I love the movement debuffs and home turf. They add another level of depth to our system. I do however want everyone to have access to the same mods and consumables so that everyone has the same advantages and opportunities.

Next time, read before you post, your first sentence makes you look like you did not read a single word of my post.

PvP and pve need to be seperated. Pvp needs it's own trinkets now that is has a belt. I return to the game for PVP and as soon as i get all my pvp gear i found out i need the new pve trinkets. Not only that i need to put mods into my pve gear so that i can boost my cr to get marks so i can buy PVE rings. On top of that i still don't the best pve equipment that i need for high level pvp arenas.......

Trinkets will still be PVE, but at least rings/neck/weapon in the upcoming season will be better thant he PVE options. So it's basically just the trinkets you need ffrom PVE.

Also Synthetic mods will make modding sets for just the CR much more reasonable.

Yes they are good changes. I feel like SOE is trying. I just don't want the community who have a ridiculous expectation for new players to sway the devs. People have to keep an open mind when it comes to new players or even returning players like me. I have friends that are so far behind they wont even bother coming back. I can't blame them.