[Suggestion] The Ultimate Thread Dedicated to Refurbishing TR as a Faction (Part 2)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by EliteEskimo, May 26, 2013.

  1. EliteEskimo


    On May 3rd, 2013 I put together a detailed thread dedicated to showing how the TR are currently not living up to their faction lore with their current weapons, vehicles, and abilities. I couldn’t ask for the thread to be more successful, and it exceeded my expectations by getting ideas and suggestions from all 3 factions. After about 2 weeks the thread accumulated 300+ likes, 25,000+ views, 750+ replies, and 40 pages of detailed feedback and ideas. Since 40 pages is a lot for the Developers to look through, this thread will be highlighting the best ideas that were put forth for each section from part one of the Ultimate TR Refurbishment Thread. https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...cated-to-refurbishing-tr-as-a-faction.122793/


    Why The Developers Need to Take Ideas From This Thread and Ones like it Seriously

    So before I get started, I’ve noticed a very unique trait about the PS2 development team. Often times the SOE team likes to ask questions and get feedback on their twitter accounts or Reddit, but often do not use their official forums for the same purpose. What I think the Developers need to realize is that the Official Forums offers the best possible communication channel to request for gaming feedback. The official forums also offer a much more organized and streamlined way for players to respond to specific developer questions on specific topics within specific subsections of the forums.


    Higby with the SOE Blue Tag all developer threads are looked at by a much larger amount of people from the community, and often get many more pages of feedback compared to Twitter or Reddit. Not nearly as many use Twitter/Reddit for making greatly detailed answers and suggestions about PS2, however people do that time and again on the forums each week resulting in giant constructive threads that can be from 10-40 pages long.


    So far Luperza has really been the only member of SOE to really take the Official Forums to heart. As a result she is highly regarded as the saving grace on the forums for being the only one to let us know the Developers still care about we think. While I cannot begin to express how much we appreciate Luperza’s attention and effort, we also need more of the Head Honchos such as Higby in here so we can converse with them on the areas of the game that needs attention. That being said...


    What Lore Based Traits are the Terran Republic Supposed to Have?

    For convenience to use in part 2 of the thread, and as a refresher for anyone who has forgotten these are the traits that define the Terran Republic according to the Official Planetside2 Website and Matthew Higby https://www.planetside2.com/news/oct25empiredebriefTR.html

    “More so than any other empire, the TR is a professional military. The TR are a professional military whose weapons and vehicles are top of the line, shining and new, but conventional. The TR prefers to stick with what has worked for hundreds of years – accurate, high velocity bullets, and lots of them. Terran Republic weapons have the fastest firing rates, largest ammo capacities, and are generally designed to allow for maximum sustainable damage.”

    “The Prowler is a medium tank that is not only the fastest empire specific tank on the field but it can be armed to the teeth with extra weapon systems beyond the other empires medium tanks, making it one of the deadliest vehicles in the game.”

    Now that we know who the Terran Republic are supposed to be according to the Lore we’ll get to see the best of what the Planetside 2 community came up with to get the TR back on track to being cool and following the Lore.

    Great Need For More Creative TR Infantry Weapon Designs

    Currently the Terran weapons suffer from little to no variety in weapon design; you literally have to strain yourself to tell the difference between our LMG’s and the differences between our Carbines. Pictured below is what I’m referring to


    As we can see the differences between the TR weapon designs are very small and to the untrained eye can seem borderline identical. In terms of Terran Republic LMG's one person posted a very accurate description of how we feel about the similarity in weapon designs between the various LMG's.


    Issues with TR Faction Specific Traits
    TR do not hold the fastest firing weapons across the board as they should. This can be seen with the following spread sheet updated as of the May 24th Hot Fix.

    This issue is especially apparent among Vanu weapons which have similar high ROFs . In a great many cases TR had more horizontal recoil then their VS/NC counter parts. This combined with the fact that TR has the faction trait of lower damage hitting weapons means there is clearly something wrong with the TR’s weapon balance and lore. No one is saying TR weapons can't get kills or aren't effective, but we are saying that they do not really standout among the other factions or behave according to the Lore. The TLDR version of this sub-section is stated in the 2 pictures below


    Terran Republic weapons need to fire faster than their NC/VS alternatives, and at the very least need to have less horizontal recoil than the NC’s. To balance this increase in ROF many players have suggested a decrease in bullet damage to compensate for this. Our guns should also by enlarge have more vertical recoil than other VS/NC weapons due to higher ROF, which a professional solider could handle, but also have less horizontal recoil which cannot be controlled.

    Another excellent point made was that TR weapons should be given more attachments like advanced forward grips and compensators. The TR is the only Professional Military faction and also is using top of the line equipment. One would think at the very least all of our "S" type weapons should have all the attachments available.

    Terran Republic Infantry Weapon Ideas From the Community
    All of these ideas follow the Terran Republics more conventional weapon design models, and others simultaneously also put forth creative designs that would add further flavor to the Dakka faction also known as the Terran Republic.:D
    If I missed someone's idea I apologize, and feel free to repost them in the comment section below. Thanks!
    T7 Mini-Chain Gun Ideas

    The T7 Mini-Chain Gun currently is designed as some weird LMG type weapon that barely feels like you’re holding an actual Mini-Gun.

    What The Terran Republic Desperately Want

    The design and stats for a proper Minigun is apparently waiting in storage based on the pictures posted above. My question is, why hold back such an excellent design that will make the TR feel cooler and likely get more station cash purchases of the T7?

    Striker Ideas

    As was said in part 1, the Terran Republic doesn’t like the Striker in terms of function because the function isn’t unique. We were disappointed getting a lock-on launcher when all other factions already had a lock-on launcher to use as well. The VS recieved a Laser Cannon type launcher, and NC get a fun camera guided launcher. No one is disputing that the Striker is a very useful launcher, but usefulness does not equal fun. The Terran Republic want a rocket launcher with a skill cap attached so they feel more in control of the damage they are dishing out. Posted below are some of the best ideas that were brought up for future Terran Republic Launchers or the current Striker.

    Planetside 1 Scorpion Type Launcher

    "In step 1 you fire the rocket, it's not guided and will continue until it hits a wall or gets blown up by small arms fire(?). It can be shot directly at a tank etc, but at very reduced damage.
    After 5 seconds maybe, the missile is armed. Now we move on to step two" .


    "In step two, you activate the missile, it creates a swarm of tiny missiles that will follow your laser guidance."[IMG]

    :eek::cool: Gatling Gun Rocket Launcher:cool::eek:
    Basically this weapon would fire accurate high velocity dumb-fire mini rockets for the HA to use. The Max's Fracture only brought 2 barrels to the table, and while cool it wasn't enough Dakka for my tastes.:D


    :eek: (Part 1 of 2):eek:

    • Up x 110
  2. EliteEskimo

    Ideas For The G30 Vulcan

    The G30 Vulcan is the coolest MBT secondaries, and now looks even more cool with the new design update. But it still has a lot of limiting factors that make it really unsatisfying.
    1. First of all, it's a Gatling gun which naturally means it has a fast fire rate and it fits the TR's faction "MORE DAKAH!" mentality perfectly. However unlike a true Gatling gun it only has a 30 round clip which is the standard size on a carbine. It should at least have a 100 round Magazine like that of the Kobalt and the ammo capacity increases should also be give you 150-200 after 1700 certs. This way it would have sustained fire and would how behave like the Galting/Miniguns in the following video
    2. Secondly, it could also fire like a belt fed Gatling gun with no reload magaizines much like the ones found on current tanks, helicopters, and even SUV's. It should be able to accurately fire at a target and be able to maintain a constant stream of fire. If we need to add in an overheat function that will decrease as you cert into the weapons reload speed/ belt size so be it. For instance the overheat function could work just like that on current Minigun turrets found in game. When over heated the barrels could be visibly glowing red in low light situations like in the following video.
    3. Lastly, I acknowledge that Higby is already considering making changes based on a recent tweet he made.Source
    That being said, I figured I'd help you out further Higby by showing you just how accurate current Miniguns are.

    The Prowler’s Design and Ability Ideas

    (What Design The Community Feels The Prowler Should Have)

    Looking back across multiple threads, it seems all factions are in favor of this new design. Not only does it make sense on a design level and lore level, since the Terran Republic are all about choosing effective conventional designs, but it will also ensure the Prowler’s shots land where the crosshairs are. Lastly it will allow the Prowler to effectively hull down. This can be done by placing the turret in the giant gap currently in the center of the turret

    Prowler Ability Ideas
    The current Anchor mode ability doesn’t allow the Prowler to be the fast and mobile tank it was designed to be according to its description."The Prowler's top speed and maneuverability allows it to run circles around all other tanks in its class." https://www.planetside2.com/empires?empire=tr
    The Prowler has the exact same light armor as the Magrider, and thus should constantly be on the move. My suggestion would be a temporary Auto Loader Overdrive ability to add a temporary ROF increase, by ways of a shorter reload, with a cool down. This ability would not increase velocity or damage per shell, merely decrease reload speed. Not only is this ability a simple one to implement, but it would also rely completely on the user’s own accuracy to be effective thus adding a skill cap into the ability.

    Another good idea I heard was to have the Prowler have heat venting panels open up whenever you activate the same Overdrive auto-loader type ability, once activated you can stay in the mode as long as you want while taking 1.5 damage from all AV sources. There were other ideas but these two sounded the easiest to balance since you're only decreasing reload speed, but at the same time you're also keeping the TR trait of speed and dakka. I would also suggest that Anchor Mode be kept in, since some Terran players enjoy being mobile artillery platforms.

    :cool:TR Vehicle Weapon Ideas:cool:

    Since the Terran Republic are all about high rate of fire and lots bullets, I think we should give all their Vehicles, and VS/NC deserve something as well, something unique to stand out too . For instance the Liberators, Galaxies, or MBT's/Lightning's could have use a Quad Minigun/Gatling Gun option like the one below.


    Idea For the Flash
    :cool: (Slap this on where the Kobalt would be):cool:


    Sunderer Weapon Idea[IMG]

    The TR Max and Lock-Down Ideas


    Overall the Lock Down mechanic is only useful for camping, for shredding Air which the regular Burster max had no problem with doing beforehand, and is overall highly situational. After years of complaining that Lock-down wasn't that fun of ability the Planetside 1 developers listened and gave the TR Max new ability. The TR Overdrive ability for the Max in PS1, a mobile max ability, was made specifically for the reason that TR players didn’t like being locked down in one place and being forced to camp hallways to make use of the ability against infantry. I’ve also found that the Vanu’s ZOE is similar to the Terran Republic’s Overdrive from PS1.

    Making use of lock down is even a harder task than it was in PS1, because of the low TTK of Maxes. One C4 stick is all it takes and the Max is dead even with Flak Armor level 5 certed. ZOE Maxes and infantry in general can flank and kill Maxes before they know what hit them. Keep Lock-Down in as ability, but please give TR something that allows us to move and fire as in PS1. It would also ensure TR didn't become the ultimate AA faction between the lockdown Maxes and the Strikers.

    A possibility for a new ability would be a temporary ROF increases which you can use on the move. During activation, and for a short time after the ability is over, the TR Max would be unable to reload from ammo packs. Once certed into this ability could have a shorter cool down or last longer in duration.

    :cool:Conclusion and Request For Higby:cool:

    Higby what I have presented to you is the abridged version of 40 pages of collected feedback and ideas from part 1 of my Ultimate TR Refurbishment Thread. These designs would also likely cause in players to buy more weapons that are both cool and unique thus benefiting SOE to invest time into this changes. Every one of the ideas displayed will allow the Terran Republic to stand out more as a faction, but will also make the other 2 factions stand out more by comparison. This isn’t to say the other factions can’t get more unique too with their own designs, but overall I feel the TR needs the most help right now getting back to their Lore. So what say you Matt Higby, does this sound good to you?

    Thanks again for taking the time to read this thread, any further constructive ideas or suggestions are highly appreciated!
    • Up x 143
  3. soeguud

    TR isn't the only faction suffering from lore issues and you know it. All factions need a reworking of either their fluff, stats and models. Case in point: NC being close quarters. This is shameless bullcrap as all factions have shotguns; and the ROF of Vanus and TR weapons mitigate any damage advantage in close quarters combat.

    The easiest way to address this is to significantly reduce the number of weapon options available for each class, allowing a closer examination of weapons and stats and the opportunity for the design team to make each weapon an individual. SOE can focus on selling hats, and everyone will hopefully be happier.
    • Up x 13
  4. EliteEskimo

    I realize that TR isn't the only faction suffering from Lore issues and I stated that in the thread. This is merely part 2 of my TR refurbishment project, and I encourage you to create a similar thread for the NC. All factions need refurbishment in one way or another :)
    • Up x 15
  5. soeguud

    It's mostly hoping on my part that SOE gets their crap together and realises that making clones of the same weapon then selling it for $7USD does not actually add variety to the game. Props to your work, and I hope that SOE does take notice.
    • Up x 6
  6. Phrygen

    great stuff as always.

    but the devs hate these giants threads lol....
  7. Typhoeus

    I'd love to have fire rate doubled, damage halved, magasine sizes doubled but reload times doubled. No horizontal recoil but twice as much vertical sounds about right aswell. I really hope someone important will pay attention to this thread :D
    • Up x 7
  8. Benton!

    Riiiiiight. I love how this forum has so much constructive posts, and none of the whiny "nerf noaw!" threads that plague reddit. Oh wait. Not saying your post is bad, its really great, but its like in the 1% of posts here that make sense and are not full of baseless opinion and whine (not saying I agree with this thread though). But you would get much better feedback and a lot less whiny kids if you posted this on Reddit.

    Your faction is the military faction. You get boring gear that works. Deal with it.
    • Up x 3
  9. Blarg20011

    Yay! It's out! As always, great ideas, hopefully the devs will post before page 26 this time. :eek:
    • Up x 1
  10. FrankManic

    I disagree with some of the premises but I must admit this is a very coherent, well laid out summary of the TR community's concerns. If the Devs wanted a quick reference for what's going on in the TR's heads this is it.
    • Up x 7
  11. Bankrotas

    Hmm, max overdrive sounds fun, actually, with weapon damage redesign, giving it more bullets, less damage, rof increase, then overdrive, which could have overheat mechanic, similar to turret heating system, if you overheat, your guns are disabled. Of course this thing wouldn't apply to bursters. The idea giving buffs to NS weapons is ridiculous outright.
    • Up x 1
  12. Dingus148

    Nice to see the ideas consolidated. I thought of a temporary fix for TR weapons that doesn't require an entire balance repass, won't screw with the netcode and (most importantly) gets the appropriate level of dakka going. What if all weapons appeared to fire multiple rounds per shot (and calculated recoil based on each individual "shot"), but in reality (ie. behind the curtain of the UI) just fired once?

    Example. I click fire once. My weapon depletes 1x unit of ammo. The weapon sounds like it's fired three times, it kicks in three small increments to its final location (determined by where it would have ended up anyway), three tracers spit out, but only one packet of information is sent.

    If the first, fourth, seventh and tenth shot of a "12 round burst" (so, 4x ammo units) hit, all shots hit. If the first shot of any triplet misses, they all miss. This means the hit calculations will remain the same. Same for the recoil calculation; the recoil effectively remains the same. It's merely a cosmetic change which should make the weapons look and feel like lead hoses, without being game-breaking
    • Up x 1
  13. Aesir

    Again, a great post EliteEskimo. You know my stand to most of this. Like that all 3 Factions need a remake to feel more like TR/NC/VS.

    I understand your reasons to only post one of the factions so far instead of all 3 in one giant thread. The Devs only can work on so many things at a time, which is correct.

    But I also think that a more logical thing to do would be to look at each ES weapon that fulfills the same role and work on the TR/NC/VS/NS version, to automatically balance the changes made to make those weapons feel to more empire specific.

    As an example, the ES Tank secondaries are done in this way, why do you think are they changing the Vulcan now? Right after the Enforcer and Saron got a overhaul.

    Same can be done to other weapons, let's take the "long" range, high Velocity Ammo type LMGs of each empire, TR TMG-50, NC EM6 and VS SVA-88. All 3 were unlocked via alpha squad, all 3 have a description indicating HV ammo and good sustained accuracy for long range.(The EM6 had it atleast until the recent nerf and description change)

    Yet what boggles my mind, the EM6 has the option for an extended Magazine, the other 2 not, every other unlock is exactly the same and includes HV ammo. I don't know what they did to the EM6 in GU09 but suddenly I can't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside if I keep firing it for more than 2 rounds. Funny thing is, since that patch the Gauss SAW stays on target even while keeping firing, which was not the case in GU08 with all those attachment changes.

    (And if somebody says the Gauss SAW is the NC long range HV ammo weapon, he is correct but the starter weapons are empire signature weapons and have no counter parts in the other empires, before GU09 the EM6 had that place because of way lower recoil)
    • Up x 1
  14. EliteEskimo

    Try not to focus on the negative though, in my Ultimate combined arms thread direct material from it was implemented to make much needed changes that improved gameplay. For instance things such as taking off the MBT's instagib flip mechanic, and buffing tanks so they weren't paper tigers. Developers stalk the threads, but only when they are very constructive and well maintained do they comment these days. Although Luperza is the exception to that rule which is why she rocks so much. :cool: 2 of my past threads have received SOE comments, and I'm assuming it was because they were kept constructive and I put a lot of work into them. There may be less whine on reddit, but these are the official forums, and I find it much easier to make detailed threads like these with the forum tools.I also think more people view and comment on the forums than reddit to. *shrugs* Not saying you don't have a point though, the forums overall are negative, but a few of us actually go out of our way to maintain our threads. :eek:

    Also, the military doesn't always get boring weapons so I don't have to deal with it. Things can be conventional but be awesome at the same time. Take the M1A2 Abrams, it's a conventional American Tank, but it goes over 40 MPH and packs a punch. Plus the developers have loads of military weapons to choose from, they don't have to pick one and base every single other design off it, as is the case for LMG's more or less.
    • Up x 12
  15. EliteEskimo

    Well I figure I'm doing them a favor so they won't have to read through 40 pages and over 750 comments.:eek:
    • Up x 7
  16. Ranik

    Great thread Eskimo. Particularly like the Striker concepts, the striker acting as a handheld fracture (sort of) is an interesting concept. And the Vulcan is something that i'm just waiting to see what they come up with. The sooner the better.

    And I have to agree with Aesir above.

    Take a look at each chunk of ES weaponry and adjust accordingly. Long range carbines? Take a look at those as a group. Then Burst assault rifles. Then shotguns. etc etc
    • Up x 4
  17. NaySayer

    Awesome thread EliteEskimo. This is the main reason I am (quite frankly) getting tired of being TR. All of the TR gear is boring, bland, and really no fun. There is no variety, and we DEFINITELY do not live up to our lore.
    • Up x 5
  18. EliteEskimo

    Thanks for the compliment Frank, I realize not everyone will agree with ever single idea put forth, but rest assured I picked some of the best NC/VS/TR ideas to make TR better for this thread. Either way, if you think there are certain ideas which could be improved or expanded upon to make them more cool/balanced so they can make it into the game feel free.
    • Up x 2
  19. TheBloodEagle

    Happy to see you put it together Eskimo, nice job!
    • Up x 3
  20. LonelyTerran

    I really hate the prowler design with a passion.
    This looks nice
    (Just need to bring the barrels together)
    • Up x 8