[Suggestion] So about the Harasser

MBT vs Harasser = How did you even manage to get in this situation?
Lightning vs Harasser = A worthy matchup with 3 players.
Liberator vs Harasser = Respawn.
Infantry vs Harasser = C4ries or MEGALOLFARM.
Harasser vs Sunderer = Mowed down by dual basilisks and a complement of rocketeers.
ESF vs Harasser = ??? (What Harasser fights an ESF?)

Seriously, what is the Harasser supposed to do? Grant free certs for the other faction?

They overnerfed the Harasser IMO. It needs a buff to convert it from a cert pinata to a viable car capable of both sustaining and dealing damage. Not saying it has to be remade into the immortal buggy it was back then (shudder), but it needs to be stronger.

This ^^.
It needs altering to be 80% of what it was when people said it was OP.
Until a 2/2 AV harasser VS 1 man HEAT MBT is an almost equal fight its a pointless vehicle that's just giving free certs to the other side. Sitting on the fringes of battle picking of retreating and smoking vehicles is not harassing. A 2/2 MBT with an AP main cannon and an appropriate top gun should not feel threatened by an AV harasser but a 1 man HEAT MBT should. In just the same way that a group of infantry out in the open should be threatened by any vehicle with an AI top gun.
Sacrificing the uber amour and infantry immunity of an MBT for a faster vehicle with dedicated driver was something my entire outfit was willing to do since the MBTs are so rubbish.
Its not a transport, its a fighting vehicle. What army in its right mind would waste the materials, a driver and a gunner to move 1 guy about? when you can run from base to base in 30 seconds. I didn't spend certs and SC on most of the guns and ALL the cosmetic slots to transport people about.

I just want to point out, doing mathematical TTK calculations against Harassers can't be used at face value. Speed isn't just there for movement itself, it is there to make people miss or be unable to hit back.

Halberd nerf is what made AV harassers useless. DPS is so bad that 2 engies can just rep their vanguard until you run out of ammo.

Really? Love my harasser as it is... i'd happily take a buff..

It shouldn't be a zippy little everything killer. I've sniped poor libs and esf with the halberd just running solo and picking my fights. I run compo lvl 2 to take a few more hits, but i'm certainly not dead in a single clip from inf... (i'll often repair whilst they shoot me, if there's one guy who really thinks he can do it)....

Harasser is my latest thing, took a while to build the certs to invest, but i love it... but honestly i'd feel a bit OP with some buffs(but heck i'll take em). Right spot, right moment, i'll down vanguards, sundies, libs..... or whatever fancies being in my sights. Nothing an AV turrent can't do, except i'm mobile..

No, no.... i'm no MLG pro, or even that good... but the harasser is still pretty awesome sauce if you pick your fights. I run solo(harasser) most of the time because i find myself a better gunner than most randoms, but it's still pretty rocking...

Wouldn't you just shoot the engineers?

What I want to see is the Harasser getting a buff as a platform and a buff to weapons. Normally, I run an enforcer and a falcon MAX in the backseat to kill vehicles, but I just can't sustain any damage. Sure I can hunt down a sunderer and a lightning, but I'm not capable of facing down an MBT without my team ready to fire at 100% accuracy at their butt. I should at least make a HEAT MBT shudder when I come rolling with my dedicated AV loadout.

There is much wisdom here.

Then you should propose a new role instead of just saying 'buff it'. The previous Harasser had completely replaced the Lightning, and was often a better choice than an MBT. Its 'role' was to be the first, best ground vehicle choice.

And it was delicious to see after the nerf patch. Harassers had a dramatic role redefinition. I got to watch a pair of Harassers take on three Lightnings, and the Lightnings actually win. Now they need to use their speed and all terrain mobility to get themselves into a good position, instead of being allowed to face-tank anything but 2/2 AP MBTs.


So if you want a change to the Harasser, then build a case. Explain what situations it should win but doesn't, and why. Extra points for explaining why this doesn't make any of the current vehicle roster obsolete. Posting "I die more often than I used to, and I don't like it" doesn't help: that's the point of a nerf.

the harasser is the funniest vehicle in this game
for me i can kill every tank with vulcan
but it's so weak againts small arms , it needs a buff

They have no terrain ability. They flip upside down from driving over the smallest pebble.

As for "building a case", here's mine.

It's called a harasser yet it can't harass outside of it's zerg or it will be picked off by a lone ESF or liberator. It can't use it speed to run away because air is much faster. And don't say to put an AA gun on top because I'll just laugh at you.

Well, that was easier than I thought.

First of all: I don't really like the tone of your post, you sound like a school teacher here.

Here is what i've written in the first post:

So i did NOT just say 'buff it'.

Second: It is not my job to design vehicles in this game, it is SOEs. All i am saying is, that this vehicle is way too weak compared to the other vehicles. I don't want to be lectured about how well you still can do in in because it is hard, random, situational and very risky. First the Harasser was doing too well, yes, it needed a nerf. Now it is just too weak. Saying it is fine that way is NOT saying that it is balanced whatsoever, it is IMO just you and others liking the challenge. That is fine but it still does not change the fact that it is not blanced. Every other vehicle in this game is stronger. You need 2 or even 3 people in it to make it funktion while you can easily spawn an ESF or a tank all alone and it is way easier to perform in these vehicles.

So yes, i miss the old days but i already admitted that the Harasser was op before. But i don't really want something i use being op, i just had a lot of fun in it. But being shot down by basically everything in seconds or having to back off after 1 or 2 Halberd shots takes my fun. This is not about wanting anything back this is about wanting to have fun in it. I am very sorry about not liking the 'challenge' of not to die in this weak vehicle, because i like going into actual battles, not only harassing some smoking BR30 tanks or roadkill some ants. I am in tanks a lot and i was never, ever, ever killed by a Harasser post-nerf if i wan't already in big trouble and going down either way. But i can tell you: 15 of my last 20 deaths in a tank were by Liberators. And i like the Liberator, i love the reaver, i love the tank. I tried to explain to you that i perform very well in almost every vehicle and i just hate the fact that the Harasser does not take part in it anymore. I am able to perform well in it but this is me giving my best as a very experienced driver. The vehicle itself is still weak. I am not whining about certs, stats or farms, because i can do it in every other vehicle. I don't need the Harasser but i want it because it is fun. But it is not fun dying to an esf nosegun in a few seconds or a few heavys unloading their guns at me.

So to recap it:

1. No i am not just saying 'buff' it, although it would be the easiest way.
2. It can do something but it is still ridiculously underpowered compared to the other vehicles. it is NOT BALANCED.
3. It is hard to accept for me that they buff an already OP vehicle like the Liberator while the Harasser is still too weak.
4. No i won't give you a special Aloysyus Harasser design because it is not my job.
5. I play this game for fun, and the Harasser is not fun for me right now, because i don't like the limited possibilities it gives me.

You're welcome.

Do I get to make you write "I won't ask for buffs and then say I didn't ask for buffs" 500 times?

True. You said "Buff it, or make it more effective." My apologies.

It is your job to justify your calls for buffs though.

You want the Harasser to be able to wade into fights again. The last time it was allowed to do that it made the Lightning obsolete, and did quite a number on the MBT. The responsibility is on you to show why the things you want aren't the crazed ravings of a butt-hurt FOTM bandwagoner. Otherwise you abdicate the guidance for the role of the Harasser to SOE, and they seem to be mostly fine with it right now.

Do you want the ground vehicles to share a RPS relationship, so that you can hunt Lightnings and have to run from MBTs? Fine: make the case.



Do you want the Harasser to be the first choice of the zerg scout party because of its speed, punch and ability to be replaced easily? Fine: make the case.

Do you want the Harasser to lord over all the other vehicles as a four wheeled, nitro injected, flame spitting god? No. You can't have that.

If you're having trouble with your homework (see what I did there? ), talk to Shockwave. He presented a case for buffs which cited examples of why the supposed strengths of the Harasser aren't performing as desired. Simple to do when you have an idea what you want.

I miss my super vulcan buggy...... Repairing in the back seat used to take skill and you had to maintain the beam like a gun on recoil 24/7. The gunner had to be good, and the driver had to be insanely good. I don't know why they nerfed the vulcan, then the sauron, the the enforcer. I think all these weapons should be reverted to their original form.

The vulcan is put on the prowler, the long ranged siege tank. The long range enforcer is put on the tank.... Tank..... That takes it up close and personal. And the sauron... Well.... It performed very well all around.
And a prowler at slapping distance of a vanguard will always lose, even with a vulcan. And a vanguard at squinting range will always lose against a prowler, even if it has the enforcer. The magrider can do whatever it wants, but usually lose anyway if the opponent can aim.

Okay, this is the last time i will answer to you. I don't need anyone with any "i am the smart and eloquent" school teacher attitude, pointing this in my face while completely ignoring everything i said to prove my opinion.

First of all: i didn't say "buff it or make it more effective" eother, i said buff it or change it because it is too weak and ineffective right now.

See, i don#t like to discuss with guys who use this "butt-hurt" stuff either. I waited months until i did this post, i killed countless Harassers with ease just to let me called butt-hurd by some forum guy who likes himself behaving like the wise, old mentor.

Now you bring Zergs into the game. I am not a zerger, i just tried to show how stupidly easy it is to pull a tank and make tenthousands of certs with it, even by zerging around. And the Harasser is not even close to perform as well as a tank.

Answering this question for yourself before even waiting for my answer makes you even more unsympathic in your wise-old-mentor role. You are not discussing, you are polemic. No, i don't want it to be that way. But i don't want it to be a four wheeled, nitro injected, 9-halberd-rounds-for-abr30-tank, dying-to-2-heavys, need-3-people-to-make-it-function piece of crap either.

In not one single word you answerd to my argument that the Harasser is still the weakest vehicle. I gave you examples of tanks and Liberators, even the lightning is superior. i stated that i don't care about the resources, i talked about fun, i talked about the weapons the Harasser can use and is not able to use properly. i talked about i want to go into BATTLES and you basically say this farm once a day with fury or shooting some smoking tanks in the back is just fine. I don't think it's fine.

Yea, i see what you did there. Trying to sound clever and outsmart me with polemic. I don't want to discuss with you anymore.

Because you haven't said anything to prove your opinion. In fact:

You've specifically said you don't want to have an opinion.

This is what I'm hearing from you:
1. I do want to buff it.
2. I should be able to both go toe to toe with an MBT, and keep the Harasser's unique qualities.
3. Lib OP. (Ok, this one I'll give you.)
4. I don't want a non-frontline role for the Harasser, I want it to replace the Lightning again.
5. Give me my nitro fueled land shark again.

Being the ground vehicle that "goes into battle" is already the tank's job. Just as people are complaining that the Lib is encroaching on ESF territory by being a powerful A2A platform, if you want the Harasser back as front line fighter you need to justify it by explaining why tanks would still be relevant. If you can't do that, you're basically asking for the pre-nerf version, and you can't have that.

Actually the harasser have only one problem, it's identity crisis. This vehicle never had a real role. Before the nerf, it was the anti-everything vehicle, after the nerf it has AA / AI / AV weapon but can win only against non-AV infantry.
"Harass" enemy isn't a role this vehicle can do since PS2 don't reward harassing enemy, only kill are rewarded.

I think the harasser should be effective against both infantry AND airplane. Yes, at the same time.
In detail, AI weapon-H won't be helpless against air and AA weapon-H will easier be able to fight back against infantry.
With these change, the harasser main weakness will be heavy-armored vehicle (tank/sunderer), simply because they can't fight back against this kind of threat. (but they can run away).

What this concept need :
-Remove all AV weapon from harasser : Vulcan, Saron, Enforcer, Halberd and Basilisk.
-Change Koblat-H, PPA-H, Caniester-H and Marauder-H angle / flak effect / damage type to be able to fight back against aircraft (not necessarily be effective weapon)
-Increase Walker-H and Ranger-H lower angle to make these weapon able to hit ground (infantry).
-Add RAT (Reinforced Armor - Top) to defense slot, it increase harasser effective HP by +35% against all air threat.

The fact that you still just read what you want and bring up things again i declined several times confirms me in not wanting to discuss with you anymore.

Make it AA can be a concept but there i see a big problem. See, i am a pilot, too and you can believe me that there already is enough AA around. AA.Turrets, Skyguards, Burster Maxes, lock-ons, Basilisks, Walkers, Rangers...

I didn't really had a problem with air pre-nerf. I actually had the most funny moments fighting greedy aircrafts. Performing Donuts, circling around, hid, run, hit with Halberd, repair. It is fine that you can be killed by Air but right now it is just too easy, that's my point.

The concept i see here is converting the Harasser into an infantry farming machine. Well, i remember one of the reasons of the nerf was because lightnings were underperforming. Okay, but if the Harasser is the new farm vehicle in your concept, what is with HE and Viper lightnings?

Another big problem i see is that SOE would never do these changes, simply because they would have to grant back a lot of certs and SC. So my honest opinion is that SOE just goes the easy way and not redesign this vehicle. They never really redesigned something big. Some new weapons, some nerfs and buffs, a better angle for Liberator 2nd gunner seat... yea. But serious redesigns? I would be the first one being excited about it but i think it's neverb gonna happen although i would wish so.

They rather add a new vehicle like the Valkyrie instead of balancing the current ones. But tzhat is SOE: They always implement new stuff before fixing the old. i would be perfectly alright with not having any new stuff the next months if they just focus on bugs and balancing issues.

I'm inclined to agree with dstock's assessment. Further to that, except for you two, and a handful of professionals on both VS/NC, most vanguard players are easy pickings for the group. If there's cover, harasser has good chances to kill the MBT provided that the attack goes uninterrupted.

I don't have much experience engaging prowlers, except that while locked down they've been easy certs. Depends on the tankers but again, I don't play VS/NC as often in a harasser anyway.

About the problem "SOE will never do it", I don't care. If they want their game work, they should rework the harasser.
This is their problem, not mine. At least, I've do a beautiful wish list.
But if you remember, they have reworked some weapon (ES AI weapon now don't deal damage to heavy armor, Viper now is more effective against heavy armor). I don't see why they never rework a vehicle.

About the anti-air ability of the harasser. I don't think it will change a lot.
I just want to make AI and AA weapon-H more versatile. I mean airplane shouldn't see AI harasser like a free box of xp. To do that, harasser need to be able to fight back, even AI harasser.
About the details of the AI weapon-H buff against air, it should be mainly an angle increase to the same as basilisk's angle so they will be able to aim airplane. Plus, theses AI weapon-H should be able to deal a few damage to liberator / galaxy.
For example, add flak round to Koblat-H, it should deal ~20@2m to 1@4m. This change don't make the koblat a deadly weapon against air, but with that, airplane won't see harasser as a free meal. Plus with the tiny flak radius, the Koblat-H won't be effective at longer range. Note this weapon have ~65% of the ranger DPS against air. (when flak round explode, they don't deal direct damage)

ESF nosegun and liberator are too effective against actual harasser, plus you have to know harasser can't run away from air, even from galaxy. That's why if a harasser want to be AA dedicated, it need the RAT (Reinforced Armor - Top). But it will never be as effective as a dual burster or one skyguard.

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About the eternal question : Why take [vehicle] over harasser or harasser over [vehicle] ? Does this harasser change will cause the [vehicle] death ?
You speak about the lightning.

I don't think this change on the harasser will cause the Viper/HE death because unlike the my harasser's concept, lightning aren't helpless against heavy armor.
New harasser are good against infantry and aren't helpless against air but can't fight against tanks.
If you want to fight against air and armor, you will take a skyguard, if you want to fight against air and infantry, you will take the harasser (assuming you are 2 crew).

With these change, the lightning will be less spawn ?
Probably yes, because harasser gameplay is funnier and because all old harasser use that are in lightning will bring back their harasser.
But due to the 2 different role (lightning is AI and AV / harasser will be AI and AA), none of these vehicle will die.

I love my Harasser. It is by far the most fun vehicle in the game. I left PS2 about a month after its release and did not return until a week after the PU02 update. Therefore, I never had an opportunity to experience the Harasser in its former state.

Nevertheless, I have put over 20,000 certs into my Harasser, for vehicle and weapon upgrades, to make it as viable as possible in various situations (I did not realize I had over 20k of certs into my Harasser until I counted them this week ). Although I appreciate the recent buff in the 4/16 patch, I do feel that further action is needed to address the Harasser's effectiveness and viability as an alternative to other vehicle options. Below are my suggestions, which are not an end-all-be-all wishlist and not biased based on the Harasser's former state, but some changes that I think would be beneficial to the Harasser community and not overpowering to the overall vehicle game play dynamics:

• Increase Composite Armor's maximum damage resistance to 10%.
• Increase base armor resistances by an additional 2 to 3%.
• Buff the Halberd-H's direct damage to 850 and indirect damage to 425.
• Tune the handling physics that were ruined in the recent patch update on 5/20.
• Increase back seat repair to 50% of normal repair rate. [Edited - Forgot to include in initial post.]

With the aforementioned changes, I believe the Harasser will be in a fairly balanced state based on its resource cost and the number of players required for the vehicle to function at a peak level. Considering the Harasser needs at least a dedicated gunner with a maxed repair gun for optimal performance, finding regular, or even pick up, gunners that meet the said criteria is difficult, at least for me as a Vanu player on Mattherson without an outfit, based on the opportunity cost of other means to obtain certs and/or kills. Due to the back seat repair ability, which is factored into how the Harasser is balanced, it is the only vehicle in the game that is contingent on a gunner that is an Engineer.

For now, the first thing that SOE should address is the Harasser handling physics, which were changed recently. I am still rather upset that SOE would change the Harasser physics, based on the Flash, without taking the time to tune it properly. As per the roadmap thread related to the tuning changes for the Flash and Harasser SOE states: "We are spending some time tuning the handling of some of our ground vehicles, primarily focused on the Flash and Harasser. These vehicles currently are a bit jarring to drive over uneven terrain and prone to flip unnecessarily, we want to smooth that out and create a better overall driving experience."

However, in the recent update, we got this: " *** With some code changes we've made over the last few updates, we’ve updated the handling on the Flash. The Flash should grip the ground a lot better and be less likely to spin out and a *little* less likely to flip. It is still possible to do both but it should be under more extreme circumstances. (Extreme stunt videos will live on YouTube forever...) *** We've also enabled these changes on the Harasser, but without any tuning modifications. So the Harasser is using the new code but there shouldn't really be any noticeable difference." With the recent changes, SOE made the Harasser driving experience more jarring over uneven terrain and more prone to flip unnecessarily. As a fellow software developer (embedded systems for safety components in automotive and avionics), it really confuses me how SOE deploys updates and patches without properly testing them or with known issues.

Okay, I am off my soapbox. C'mon SOE, please address the Harasser physics, which were not truly an issue until after the recent patch on 5/20, and then address the remaining balance issues that persist after the 4/16 update.

Sorry for the long post. Thank you to anyone, especially from SOE and the Harasser community, that was taken the time to read it. Also, I appreciate all of the former posts in this thread. It is good to hear other ideas and perspectives about the vehicle that I love greatly in this game.