[Suggestion] So about the Harasser

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Aloysyus, May 23, 2014.

  1. dstock

    That's too bad, I was really enjoying the productive discussion in this thread.
  2. KoS-1

    No I'm not ignoring your balance crap. I keep telling you...don't worry about it. It's nothing you can do about it. Deal with what you have laying before you. You are giving too much power and control over yourself to something we have no control or say in.

    Personally, I would like a slight buff to back seat repair, like SoE did to comp armor and small arm-base damage. And a slight increase in output damage. For example, halberd, buff to 1000 damage.

    There balancing!!! OK!!! Now what? The buggy is still going to get blown up quickly, still going to flip, on and on. Some people will still suck at AI with it, like I do.

    The buggy isn't going to be the killing machine of lore again. If so, the outcry would be fun to watch!

    Weak against other vehicles? Weak how? Again let's keep in mind, it's never going to be buffed to point it was before. Now what? Flank? Wait for opportunities? Lure to mine traps? Get help? Run away? What?

    It still kills stuff. I've and others have offered examples of such. Go to youtube, there are plenty of game play videos post-nerf. Come to waterson and run with a few experienced crews.

    An example from someone's earlier post. The leaderboard example bammer brought up. You brought up valid counter points. What you didn't understand, he would have still been in the top 15 or 20 with out those boosts. More importantly, it was how those points were earned, not how many or amount of time, etc...

    I would challenge anyone, any vehicle(except air) or infantry class, get into the top25 of the leaderboards consistently. The catch is, do it solo or single crew, operate the entire time in the dual enemy battle fronts/territory. For example, closets friendly base is Ceres Hydroponics and everything south is enemy territory. The killing fields range from Peris Amp over to Tarwich area and up to Crossroads to Allatum. Get at it by yourself!!

    Guess what, a small percentage of people/crews would be able to do that, regardless of vehicle or class. None the less, yes, it doesn't mean there aren't issues with any particular vehicle or class. There are plenty of those to go around. But what it does mean, there are ways around those issues, deficiencies, Balance issues!

    I understand it's human nature to take the path of least resistance. Especially when it comes something that is entertainment, a game. We all have it seen play out before our eyes. When the nerf happened, guess what, that path got harder. Then what? Human nature kicked in!

    Then there are the few odd balls like myself and others. We love the punishment. Again, get out there and do and go. Get kicked down by flipping, lasting 3secs or whatever it may be. Well, get back up! Dust oneself off! Get at it again. Who cares about k/d, how many times a buggy is pulled, how many resources wasted...it doesn't really matter.

    This game offers numerous paths to gain certs/exp. In the end, isn't that the goal? Correct? Myself, I got to 100 on my TR toon using my sunder and harasser. I would guess about 85-90% of my certs/exp came from those two platforms alone. My NC toon is 50 and 100% are coming from the harasser.

    I think on my TR toon I have just over 200 hrs in a sunder and just over 250 hrs in a harasser. On my NC about 60 hrs in a harasser.
  3. KoS-1

    One thing concerning balance. I re read your first post. I keep seeing the work farming.

    Balance doesn't equate being able to farm more.

    Is that the main point or issue you have now? Can't farm enough in the shortest period of time? Again the path of least resistance.

    No wonder you don't get points trying to be related here.
  4. RaidsRUs

    While we're having a general Harasser thread, I have a question for my fellow TR in here. I'm not a fan of explosive launchers, like the Halberd-- I much prefer bullets-- and the state of the Vulcan right now does not fall in line with what I need from this vehicle. With this in mind, what sort of weaponry would you recommend for the Harasser?
  5. KoS-1

    What do you need? Then we can go from there.
  6. RaidsRUs


    I guess, if I were to make a list of priority characteristics that I'm looking for in a Harasser weapon it would run as follows:

    1. Maintains at least decent accuracy on the move
    2. Doesn't require my staying right on top of the enemy (see point 1); that is to say, allows for synergy between the fast moving vehicle and its reliance on not being hit to survive
    3. Moderate-to-large ammo capacity, accounting for the fact that there will probably be a lot of missed shots.
    4. ROF, if redundant points 1,2,3 don't rule out a gun with decent rate of fire.

    I'm considerably less concerned about straight up damage (although I suppose it should do enough to actually threaten my targets), and not inherently picky about what's downrange from the gun.

    With all this in mind, any particular recommendation for AI work? How about for AV? Finally, what's a good generalist option for when we don't have a specific target? I realize that the Halberd is very well regarded in terms of weapons for this vehicle because it can damage most targets pretty handily, but I've really just never cared for the guesswork inherent in the extremity of the arc; weapons that are spitting bullets at the enemy are probably easier to do strafing runs with.
  7. Alabammer


    Please clarify this for me, what is it weak against really? lightnings I have no problem with unless theyre a REALLY good shot AP, and even then, by shot two, I get the picture and get out and rethink how to kill that one, count it one, problem lightning. Skyguards should just be called loltanks against a harasser, the only time I dont kill them is when they are sitting next to a nest of infantry or more tanks (this is not often the case, they are usually off in their own fantasy land looking at air and overextend). A 1/2 MBT is more or less a fair fight, depends on what it is and how good a shot, I win 4 outta 5 on these fights just because I usually open and hes usually a bad shot. 2/2 MBT, again, according to most people's idea of 'balance' im not suppose to win this fight, but Im a great shot and an opportunist that gives me slightly better than 50/50 odds. Sunderers, theres two types here, the uncomp Im dead in 5 shots bus, or the comp armor battle bus that I tend to ignore and avoid as these guys tend to be on Teamspeak and will get out and rep while one guy shoots a bulldog at me, yea, Ill let him be somebody else's problem.

    Ahh, we get to infantry, can I just say, I died plenty in my pre-nerf harasser to infantry, the striker was (and can still be overpowered) and just wreck your day, and thats one guy. Not to mention, if you go dedicated heavy, you buy an annihilator or deci, its just a given. Lets be honest though, sure the occasional double lock on can and will put a nice nonavoidable stop to your run, but if you let it ruin your next run/s after that your not adapting to the situation. If the heavies are out, switch it up to smoke, or better yet, watch the areas youre getting locked onto and avoid them if your chasing tanks. If this is not the case, then take 5 minutes and camp the one ******** shooting a rocket at you, as dying 4x in a row to one @sshole is enough to make anyone go, hey Im not winning here, time to pull a tank/esf. If he's still determined to be an ***, then leave that particular hex for 10 minutes, usually there are at least two great fights on any continent at any given time, I rarely if ever get to this point of thinking hey too many heavies but whatever, this is a discussion atm.

    Finally your only true weakness, air, what can I say, good esf pilots will wreck you, and even the occasional bad one will stumble into a rocketpod kill. Libs can hunt you all day long with impunity. How do I handle it, I shrug, I generally escape the esf, or stay alive long enough to kite the guy into my own air or I get under a bridge or into a bay, I tend to know my outs. Dalton libs have to be either super low where I can shoot them, come up on me and Tank Bust, or a really good shot from high up to blow me up. Shredder libs are the real problem, but theyre a problem for EVERYONE, not just a harasser, sure an MBT might survive a little longer, but generally anything that kills me in a harasser probably would have gotten me in a tank in the same situation.

    So lets be clear here, ground vehicles except battle sundes and MBTs should go down to you, Ive seen plenty of people who are not experienced clear this stuff, I have cleared it with both me gunning for an inexperienced driver and driving for (several) inexperienced gunner(s). Youre not weak against this crap, you will not convince me otherwise. Infantry is also fairly easy with the right loadout, smoke under pressure and get out and reset, sure you cant sit there and kill all day, boo friggin hoo, I still nab plenty of kills.

    Air, if it becomes a real problem, I have a ranger, you'd be amazed at how many esf's confuse that sh*t for a basilisk and die to my flak. Sure Im useless against tanks/infantry, but if Im pulling this its because Ive already killed all that stuff and only the scythes/reavers are standing in my way for more.
  8. Alabammer


    If you're TR, then Id say the Halberd is your best bet for AV (and is actually pretty great for AI once you get some practice with it), just make sure to max the reload speed as soon as possible as with this weapon especially it means the difference between life and death. If you want to go more of an AI then the spread from the Fury/Bulldog (I equate them about equal on accuracy, the difference being do you want to direct kill one guy, fury, or aoe the hello of people, bulldog. The fury definitely wins on RoF here, but bulldog has a much better chance of one shotting.

    The halberd is versatile at all ranges, the fury/bulldog have alot of drop so mid to close range are their area of expertise. My advice, take to the VR room with a buddy and test out all three with your driver doing all sorts of crazy stunts to make it hard to hit the stationary targets and see which one gives you the best feel for the job.
    • Up x 1
  9. RaidsRUs


    Duly noted, Alabammer. Thanks, and happy hunting.
  10. Halkesh

    Harasser is fine actually ? Then explain me why I should take one over a Lightning, MBT or a battle Sunderer.
    The vehicle concept is "high risk, high reward".
    Actually I'm sure the high risk is here, but for the high reward at better you get the same reward than you would get with an other vehicle.

    Wish list to Santa :
    -Harasser should be viable without composite armor (and when it's done, remove this thing)
    -AP shell shouldn't deal more damage than HEAT to harasser (they already have +25m/s to be more effective)
    -AA Harasser should be more versatile (increase lower angle)
    -ES AI weapon for Harasser should be able to fight back against air (at least increase the higher angle to the same as basilisk), like the bulldog/fury are able to fight back against tank
    -AV weapon-H should be as effective as MBT one, at least at short range (for example, give to halberd-H 1000@Ym to 800@Xm)
    -Add a 3rd seat slot for upgrade (bonus shield for the 3rd seat crew / hold breath to remove rumble for a short time)
    -Improve 3rd seat for easier repair, even at max speed (but keep the ratio to 30%)
  11. Exonis

    It would be interesting to see how the harasser would behave if they made the cost 200 resources and shrunk the hitbox and model down by 50% or 25%
  12. FigM

    might as well make it a motorcycle
  13. oberchingus

    Keep in mind that VR has no splash damage so it may take more rounds to get those VR AI kills in. Bulldog and Fury will destroy vehicles too, so practice that as well. I've been having fun with the bulldog, as it is a very different kind of weapon.
    • Up x 1
  14. RaidsRUs


    Also noted. I wasn't actually aware of the VR no splash thing, to thanks for that tip as well.
  15. oberchingus

    This has been an interesting thread for discussion. I've summarized my own opinion based on how people describe their own personal experiences in how they run harassers. It sounds like there are a few different kinds of harasser players and none of them can relate to each other.

    For instance, you have the taxi driver or passenger whose experiences are solely based on a ride-along or two. Jumping is fun as it is a buggy after all which brings many evil kenevil experiences. Armed with a Basilisk, they peg off some infantry and maybe finish off a smoking tank if they're lucky. If the lock-ons don't get them, the next flip will. This is the transport harasser, often stock, maybe with racer chassis for the speed increase, and the player has 20-30 hours put into it. They pull it because they can't afford a sunderer or tank and they want more protection than a flash. Pre-nerf and Post-nerf tactics aren't much different for a transport vehicle, I don't think.

    I've never used a harasser for transport.

    Then you have the mid-range combat harasser player who's spent 50-100 hours in their buggy. They've got a few weapons for it, maybe experimented with different tactics and strategies, and think they've got a good handle on how to operate. They've picked a chassis as their main for all situations; actually this is the kind of novice harasser player ECUS likes to recruit because they show an interest in the awesomeness that is the harasser and a willingness to take their game to a much higher level of zen. I call this player the apprentice harasser player. Pre-nerf and Post-nerf tactics didn't matter much for this player. If they enjoyed the harasser before, they will again after the fact. SOE killing the mechanics doesn't bother them much as they've now learned to adapt with change and keep on truckin.

    By contrast, you also have the mid-range combat harasser player that has decided not to adapt with change and they've decided that the harasser's god like abilities are never coming back and that it is no longer a viable option to do anything. These players have put in time, but have the wrong attitude in the first place. It's a buggy. It will flip. SOE made it so it will flip more often, but dealing with that is part of the experience. Because they've chosen not to adapt, they keep dying, to all enemies, infantry or vehicle and are infuriated by what the harasser has become. This player can somewhat relate to the transport harasser player, but not the true core combat harasser player.

    And finally you have the core combat harasser player, who spends all their time in the buggy. This player might play in the Mao/NS/Howling fights with the zerg, push the armor back or clean them up completely and do donuts around the toilet bowl while his gunner checks the map for the next fight. Or they may operate exclusively in enemy territory: draw a triangle from Ceres Hydro to VS warpgate and to NC warpgate. Everything in between is their pasture. Yes I'm thinking about KoS and bammer here. they get bored of the fights I like at Mao and Indar Ex. I like the change of scenery. I've spent 3 months at what ECUS calls home: Crossroads/Snake/Regent/Peris/Vanu/Alatum. I also like Amerish and Esamir.

    When SOE nerfed the harasser, the rest of ECUS moved to Liberators and transferred their harasser skills to the Lib. They go hand in hand. KoS and Bammer stayed in the harasser and adapted. They experimented with different defense and utility options as every situation calls for a different tactic.

    In my experience, what the nerf did is it reset all of us to zero. Anyone who thought they were harasser gods, were now required to adapt if they wanted to keep that role and title. KoS and Bammer are harasser gods. They continued to adapt and now wreck everything in that Indar triangle of theirs. They are great teachers and we can benefit by hearing from their experiences but only if we also want to become the type of core combat harasser players that they are.

    If we want to remain in the medium range or as transport harasser players, than there is no point in even discussing anything. Until we change our attitude, we will never relate to each other.
    • Up x 1
  16. KoS-1

    Pull what you want....it's a personal preference. You can kill **** in all of them. About the only difference, trying jumping off a cliff in any of those 3 you listed vs. a harasser. Who will have a chance to survive?

    They all have their strengths and weakness, pros and cons, pull what is wanted or needed, what map the dictates...I don't know, it's the persons call in the end. I personally pull harasser each and every time.

    Yes it's fine, it's not great or super. Could it use some slight buffs? Yes. Should have they nerfed it the way they did? No. But we are stuck with what we have now.

    So, again , the buggy is fine. A person now has to work at it, it's not a easy gravy train of certs anymore.
  17. KoS-1

    Sadly the halberd is the best option for AV and jack of all trades now. The rest of the weapons are too inflexible, too pigeon hold to be viable.

    Honestly, it's sounds like a ballask is what you are looking for....but!!! I wouldn't use it, not to say it can't be useful. It's not useful enough. :( If the RoF was increased to where it was for one day after they buffed it. Maybe it would have be a viable option.

    Right now the best bet is halberd, while the other weapons have their place and uses, it's too situational. Unless you don't mind changing harassers all the time to meet the changes on the battlefield.
  18. KoS-1

    Thanks for the kinds words.

    But I will add. We wreck, but we do get wrecked plenty of times. Which is part of it, now the question is, what to do about it. Change tactics, try same tactics, flee and reset or stop for the day. Not everyday is a paradise killing field of joy.

    Just wanted to add those thoughts to the discussion at hand.
  19. KoS-1

    Why? Instead of a dune buggy we have a go-cart now?
  20. oberchingus


    Wasn't really going for kind, but did want to mention it based on what's been written on this forum and what I hear in TS as to how you two operate. To me, you two are where Arch and Taco are. In a league of your own. The only way to get there is to continue to adapt to all scenarios and keep at it. Naturally the road to harassment is paved with many exploded harassers. I think you seldom get killed by the enemy, and instead get killed by Indar. Trees and pebbles of Gibraltar are OP. My top enemies in order are: Auraxis, Klypto, Alarox, GlobeMaster and OPTR players that pull a sycthe after we wreck them in their maggy.

    Point is, you get wrecked and keep at it, honing your skills, sharpening your knives. That is the Caliber of harasser player you are. All this to say, you can't relate to someone who cries for balance and chooses not to adapt and in turn, the whining infuriated player who thinks the harasser, has no role or is a viable option in combat, cannot relate to you. Same vehicle, same weapons maybe, same continent but the attitude is completely different, thus so are the experiences.