true, very deadly snipers are rare in any game no point in making it harder for causal snipers just because few people can't learn to stop standing still
@doomedking517 Look, man, we can write more paragraphs, but it all comes down to this. Sniper rifles are high risk, as they are bolt action, and big reward weapons, as they can one-hit kill. Cloak is what makes this horrible gameplay wise, because it entirely removes the risk factor from using these weapons. Being capable of OHK and disappearing leads to simple equation: OHK + cloak = not okay. Past 15+ meters you are completely invisible and you can OHK anyone, before he even stops and takes aim. And all this in a matter of a second or two, when you uncloak to take a shot and a moment later cloak again, while running to cover, completely safe. There is no long enough delay to make it balanced. The person you fire at has no chance to respond and even lift their gun, if you catch them sprinting. This is not okay, just as shotguns accessible by infils were not okay and thus they were removed from their arsenal. We can argue forever, but this is the simplest and clearest thing: one-hit-kill weapons and absolute invisibility past 15+ meters is cheese, however you put it, it is not balanced, it's fair from feeling "right". Remove cloak and it suddenly becomes entirely different thing: in 1 vs 1 the person with better aim wins. Infils receives his reward for big risk or he dies. However the way it is now, if he misses, than he cloaks up and hides. There is no way to defend against this in this game, other than moving and staying behind cover. No unlockable equipment for infantry can save you from headshot from sniper rifle. And it would be fine, if infils using it couldn't go invisible at all. @ArcKnight Try it then. Pick a class that can't go invisible and join a big battle, preferably right at the front line, where the biggest fight is taking place and stand still in the open. If not a sniper, then you will be picked off by vehicles or simply enemy soldiers, infils included. About video: we talk about snipers, those, who sit on a hill entire battle and snipe. I've played enough to see snipers sitting right by sundy and sniping, perhaps not in tech plants and such, but definitely in battles for smaller bases. I don't have anything against infil class as a whole. My point is: OHK + cloak = not okay. Please explain to me, how is it okay? Keep in mind, though, sniper rifles by design are supposed to be used at big distances, so nor shimmering, nor sound of activating and disabling the cloak has any meaning here.
a snipers main threat in this game are enemy snipers (vehicles are also a huge threat), the cloak helps reduce the likelihood of enemy snipers killing you decloaking > fire > re-cloak makes it harder to pin point your location, lets your an HA and you see an enemy sniper.. what do you do? you only have 2 option to fight em and that is to switch to a sniper or get an allied sniper to go after them, trying to go find them is rarely fruitful because if a sniper they feels their position is found out then they will move somewhere else or stay their then cloak when your near then try to pistol/knife your head off
Figures this thread got necro'd by some 'fwont whine suldier'. No, cloak isn't be all end all glorious solution to all your problems. If you're lookin to complain about 'iwin' buttons hoovies would be guilty of that. Oh wait you're one of them. Of course. "No certable protection against OHSK", bollocks overshield does that long range, short range some of them rarely don't. Learn game and class you seemingly play before whining about it. "Stand still try it as any infantry class, you'll die!" - Yeah, good job sherlock. In other news sun tends to shine. Also there is oxygen around us. If you act like a free kill, don't be surprised you end as a free kill. Sound of cloaking/decloaking is obnoxiously loud, measured how far it goes last time I checked was around 150-250m. Far enough to be alert and not stand still long range, or better yet assume that everybody in a fps wants to kill you all the time. That's extremely surprising idea, no? Your 'point' is valid only in this part : "cloak = not okay", because it's pathethically easy to see through within 50m, up to ~120 if you got at least 2x reflex sight, which seems to be equally preferred along with 1x. You're simply blind judging by your statements. Here, have a look how much of a lifesaver is infiltrator cloak, heck there is a bonus thrown in : no hud, so no indicators from minimap at time of engagement. Any more 'statements' about usefulness of cloak mrkiteer? Also, you got funny idea of 'fair' "imma go run around with attachment neutralising other guys' ability while I have ~2x hp as they got, and while they can only use a sidearm and knife." Yup, amusingly 'fair' Btw, ArcKnight, assuming a ha spots a sniper and wants to engage, it isn't really limited to those 2 options, those you mentioned are possibly simplest ones, especially asking someone else to dispatch sniper. Any class can get rid of average sniper in ps2, it just requires a tiny bit of thinking really. Ha, actually have it easiest possible if we exclude countersniping or maxes, they can just charge while making shots of sniper nearly impossible to hit for most. But yeah, I guess those who know that don't come here to whine about snipers.
Obviously you have to assume, what classes I play. I don't remember engineers having that "I win" button, though. No, it doesn't. Perhaps you should try every other class once in a while, if not for the first time, and see for yourself. Sitting on that hill must get boring after a while. I know it does, because I did it. It was pathetically easy and I honestly felt bad for dropping people, knowing, that they have no chance to kill me. Can you even read, man? You first assume that I don't know to not sit still at all times, and then congratulate me on the opposite thing, ironically or not. Sprinting in random directions is not possible entire time, as ADS makes you slown down noticeably and you are only left with ADADing. And, keep in mind, there is a dozen other things everyone not able to cloak has to be aware of to survive on the field of battle. This game isn't about everyone vs snipers. There are vehicles, there are MAXes, there is air and finally there is infantry. Except the last one, you must see them from time to time through your scope. And then there is a guy, OHKing from huge distance in safety of his range from enemies, his cloak, his friendlies and that, everyone, who he shoots at, has their attention taken by non-bolt-action-sniper-rifle-equipped-cloakers and thing listed above. What then does he need his cloak for? Counter sniping should be your risk for the OHK reward. You are delusional, if you think it's possible. But you probably got killed by someone from that range because of your own mistake. A sniper, because that's what we are discussing here, would sit at at least 100+ if not 150+ meters, and snipe. I am fairly sure he wouldn't move when aiming, what would only add to his invisibility at this range, because cloak offers far greater protection when being still. Cloak saved you, the infil you killed didn't play it well. He didn't even have his secondary out, if he indeed had a bolt action sniper rifle and not a scout rifle in the first place. The only thing your video shows is how much of an advantage in fact the cloak provides, even, if it limits you to your secondary. Without motion spotter, if he only peeked out a little from behind that rock, you would have no idea he was there. The funny thing is, if you weren't an infil, that guy would have killed you easily and you wouldn't even knew he was there. Oh, wait! I see. So you complain that you can't OHK all the classes, because there is this one guy, who has timed ability, which takes time to recharge and which he uses to actually do something on the field of battle. I understand, yes, I really do. It must feel really bad to be able to only OHK four out of five normal infantry classes. You vastly underestimate the cloak ability to catch anyone off guard, as you did in your video. Plus I am fairly sure, that heavies and infils aren't the only classes in PS2. Not-sniping infils can use that sidearm and knife, provided they use the stalker cloak, when I am ADSing and shooting at someone else, absolutely negating any kind of shields and hitpoints advantage I have. And you know what? I don't mind. Because this thread is about snipers killing from afar. Either way I don't only play HA, nor the flashlight has enough range to absolutely diminish your ability at range you would fire at me from, so there goes your argument. My point still stands: OHK (by bolt action sniper rifles) + cloak = not okay. Please explain to me, how is it okay?
I didn't assume anything, I just read what you wrote : "activate my shields when aiming and yet sniper rifles are the most common sight I see on death screen." - This doesn't sound like engineer to me, and yes I played all classes. Longer than prolly 10 minutes you bothered with sniping picking off afk guys. And yes, said overshield does protect from longer range OHK even post 'rework'. In general, from full health you won't die to ONE Headshot. 1/3 overshields doesn't guarantee survival in CQC at maximum damage of sniper rifles. Test it for yourself, I won't repeat myself on this part anymore. First I described how cloak sound plays in detection of infiltrator in area, that's one thing. Second thing I countered your brilliant proposition "hey guys stand in open not doing anything, you'll die! Test it for yourself!" - like what that would change? Conclusion is obvious. Don't care whether in your book long range sniping is honorabru or not, personally I find it boring compared to my usual playstyle, yet it is element of planetside 2 'warfare simulation'. Delusional, funny guy I tested it long time ago, by my personal experience of killing other infiltrators. Borders for visibility which I gave are how far I personally can see them. Depending on eyesight of player it may vary, but unless they can't see past 5cm without contact lenses or glasses it's just lazyness/bad gfx settings. Please describe how cloak saved me during engagement, while I was stripped of it by hostile emp. We're not discussing 'what if/what could've happened' here but what ACTUALLY happened in video, in this specific paragraph, aren't we? Only valid thing you got in this one is that other infil played it badly, and huge part of it was him/her trusting their cloak to conceal them. Against someone with scrambled by EMP hud, with no minimap during engagement. Range where >I< would fire it? You'd be surprised but flashlight actually can shine at my character in some engagements. And yes, while using sniper rifle, and yes it does work. As it is for my statement about your idea of 'fair', it wasn't complaint about heavies. I don't have issues killing them, nor would I care if they had constant 1500hp overall including standard shields into it, just without overshield. If anything I dislike mechanics of how overshield affects hit registration and hitboxes. In this video, in specific part of infil vs infil engagement, there wasn't any ambush on my side genius. Hostile infil roughly knew where I was, and threw emp there since they couldn't be bothered to look manually, and then tried to 'flank' me instead of engaging as soon as emp hit. Their trust in 'cloak' got them killed, weaponry wise it was either 99SV which is doubtful counting in his battlerank, or M77-B which is in fact a bolt action. In fact he would be better off with primary in that engagement if he played it better. And even without motion spotter he'd be dead due to decloak sound, since ~1s delay before fire is more than enough to react, and make them miss. Your point doesn't stand since you didn't refute video anyhow. You merely said what you felt that happened there. It would go better if you'd say what you think about it instead. Come on, go ahead. If cloak is so amazing, explain how I didn't have any problems pinpointing the guy without minimap and scrambled by emp screen. I'll even help you : interesting part starts at 0:18 How is it okay? ****ton of drawbacks, cloak is pathethic easy to see, can jam your weapon effectively, ridiculously short duration, and according to devs fact that infil has less hp justifies having pathethic excuse of a cloak we have now, vulnerable to thermals due to crap rendering priority therefore no 'fwont whine suldier' you're not only one who has to be cautious about vehicles, sound, and this dreadful OHSK, mind you, not one hit regardeless where is easily countered by not standing still longer than necessary and awareness. And funnily enough countersniping is a risk in longer range sniping, since time required for a sniper to shoot a target is enough to get countersniped. Rarely you'll encounter a sniper who actually can nail you down instantenously when you're actually evading, instead of hoping that you're safe on 'frontline'. Not to mention that there is plethora of effectively OHK weapons, which due to nature of them technically require more hits, but when first one arrives, all others as well so you actually can't react. Try to research stuff first, before making blanket statements which are false. Yes I'm referring to temporary OHSK invulnerability of overshields, you can't possibly deny that you have option to survive getting headshot by infil. And yeah obviously enough it won't save you if you got 1hp and no regular shield, and only quarter of your overshield. Mistake of user or bad luck in such case.
That's a nice chunk of text. Too bad there isn't anything of use in it and you have yet to answer to my point, as your video doesn't bring anything to the table, other than visibility of the cloak at shotgun distances, which I am not arguing against. I am not going to repeat myself, as everything I've stated above in my other posts is all you need to apprehend the issue. You don't seem to be able to take part in a civil discussion either, so I will keep it short. From gameplay perspective of any game out there, providing players with ability to become cloaked/more or less invincible/whatever you want to call it and giving them huge range OHK weapons, which they then use from huge ranges to OHK other players, is a bad idea. If you don't see the most simple and straightforward logic in this, then I can't help you.
You're in no position to think about offering to help me, let alone actually offering it as you'd be incapable of it to begin with. Civilised discussion, funny coming from someone who comes to a certain class subforum just to whine. My tone might've been a bit hostile but that's worst you could describe it as. It could've been better possibly if you wouldn't come here to whine to begin with, but oh well. Game has asymetric balance, and no infiltrators are not "more or less invincible" if anything you'd be looking for invisible, and that's wrong as well. I explained mechanics around infiltrator class but clearly you seem to favour position 'ignorance is bliss' and 'muh opinionz matturz'. There are tons of way more broken things in this game, which don't have any drawbacks, OHSK of sniper rifles is one of easiest to counter. Since you refuse to listen I won't waste any more of my time, keep up the ignorance I'm certain many snipers will be happy to headshot you since you seem to be literally asking for it with your behaviour.
Any class must be vulnurable to some other ex. Heavy Assault beats MAX or light assault beats heavy. But not snipers, you can go sniper and try to snipe but you will loose anyway if he changes the position, heavy assault? Nice idea. MAX? half-way done. Medic/engy/light "kidding meah ahah scrub" Aircraft for ******* final? NOPE, THEY HAVE CLOAKS
Lemme give some examples for Kaeyz on how easy the OHKO Snipers are to counter and defeat. The strongest OHKO BASRs are the RAMS .50, the EM4 Longshot, and the Parallax VX3, with special guest AF8-RailJack. Each deals 700 Damate within 10 Meters, but only 400 out to 400. The RailJack deals 50 more damage at both ends. All of them have a Headshot Multiplier of 2.1x, making the range of the 1 Shot 1 Kill effectively at 250 Meters for every Non-MAX class. On foot, 250 Meters is quite a distance, even for the RailJack and its little charge-up. At 200 Meters, as a sniper with a 650m/s velocity, that's quite a bit of leading to do, especially on a moving target. Not to mention at such a distance you're aiming for a moving peanut. But What about the close range Bolt Actions, you may ask? Those would be the the TSAR-42, SAS-R, and the Ghost. Still 700 Damage in 10 Meters, still 2.1x Headshot multiplier, but 400 damage only out to 265 meters. That reels in the OHKO Range to no more than 180 Meters, a good 70 meters in comparison to the long-range Snipers. "But that don't matter cuz they don't got dat big-*** zoom!" Perhaps not, but they do have a rechamber time of little more than a full second. That single second is more than enough to respond and get a few shots off yourself should they miss at 50-100 meters And they Will Miss because they're only Human. Sniper Rifles are more of an extremely long range Ambush Weapon. Every single one of them. If you give the enemy a chance to respond, you will either no longer have any clear lines of fire, or die yourself. Bolded things for your TL;DR mind.
Oh please, i had to read twice to realzie this thread really exists... I have enough experience on both ends of a sniper rifle (died to ENOUGH of them and i even auraxed the Parsec months ago) and i can tell you that snipers are easy to avoid / counter: 1. Use a Flash and any class, drive to them, game over. 2. Counter-snipe! (They feel safe in their spot and do not pay enough attantion to what is outside their scope) 3. SMG-Infiltrator! (They feel safe in their spot and do not pay enough attantion to what is outside their scope) 4. Use any aircraft and drop on them 5. Don't run in straight lines! Hits on irregularly moving targets at more than 50m are ALWAYS lucky strikes... and so on...
this thread lol..... " and i can tell you that snipers are easy to avoid / counter" always someone who has a solution for everything There are infiltrators out there that are far beyond being normal, these are the ones that can clear rooms and hold rooms by themselves in a cqc type situation, as well using bolt action rifles. Yet someone every dick and jane believes the sole role of sniping is sitting and shooting let alone the whole idea behind: OHK + Cloak = not okay yet somehow c4 fairies is ok, heavies standing still killing people is ok, or NC using a phoenix to ninja behind hills is ok, the lights using every building rooftop or any high point only accessible to them is ok. Yet somehow you take a noob sniper with his first long range rifle that has 20 rounds 1 in the chamber who sits on a high 5000 meters away and kills 8 people or so and either has to run 10000 meters to get more ammo or re-deploy is what....not ok...oh wait I forgot to add OHK + Cloak = is not okay....because we all know that any sniper that uses long range sniping WHILE standing still has 100% accuracy lol... Perhaps we should just take away the infiltrator class lol. Not sure you realize but a noob infiltrator takes nothing more than a trip over a pebble to die lol. Yup that's right infies are too op because we can cloak....yet we have tanks that float and have rocket jets on them ROFL.... Mrkiteer and Mrministry are secretly closest lovers for the infy class. I imagine they die 8 out of 10 times from them...even trying to do the allusive "counter-sniping" that seems so easy to do yet so many fail at it x_X to reiterate on this: 1. Use a Flash and any class, drive to them, game over. - seen it failed more times than success 2. Counter-snipe! (They feel safe in their spot and do not pay enough attantion to what is outside their scope) - and whats your solution to the ones that oh I know....MOVE AROUND....all the time lol. 3. SMG-Infiltrator! (They feel safe in their spot and do not pay enough attantion to what is outside their scope) - read question to nukber 2 4. Use any aircraft and drop on them - everyone in ps2 is master pilots???? 5. Don't run in straight lines! Hits on irregularly moving targets at more than 50m are ALWAYS lucky strikes... - try that with me and see how your strafing fails. One who knows you do not follow a strafe, you aim for the center.....Hits on 50+m is lucky rofl, I must be REALLY REALLY LUCKY THEN. 6. When you realize you suck at something, go to forums and tell everyone how to do it right and hope someone listens. Coming from you ministry, a somewhat decent sniper is almost laughable to see you write how to kill other infies...you trying to tell others how to do it right or yourself?
to reiterate on this: 1. Use a Flash and any class, drive to them, game over. - seen it failed more times than success In order to learn YOU WILL FAIL A LOT! that is the normal process of learning: "The difference between a master and a Student is that the master has failed more than the studend has ever tried" You don't have to run them over or kill them with Flash-guns. just drive t them and kill them from behind 2. Counter-snipe! (They feel safe in their spot and do not pay enough attantion to what is outside their scope) - and whats your solution to the ones that oh I know....MOVE AROUND....all the time lol. Ever heard of Motion spotters or Darts? 3. SMG-Infiltrator! (They feel safe in their spot and do not pay enough attantion to what is outside their scope) - read question to nukber 2 read answer number 2 4. Use any aircraft and drop on them - everyone in ps2 is master pilots???? just to fly to their Position you don't Need to be a master Pilot. i am not the best Pilot myself but flying in a straight line to them and jumping out of the aircraft should be possible for everyone... 5. Don't run in straight lines! Hits on irregularly moving targets at more than 50m are ALWAYS lucky strikes... - try that with me and see how your strafing fails. One who knows you do not follow a strafe, you aim for the center.....Hits on 50+m is lucky rofl, I must be REALLY REALLY LUCKY THEN. oh yeah, because shipers are unstoppable killing machines... it is about being able to run from cover a to cover b without getting a headshot, not runnung 500m across open field... 6. When you realize you suck at something, go to forums and tell everyone how to do it right and hope someone listens. That is why you say snipers are invincible mass-mourderers that can't be stoppend or avoided no matter what you do?! And for what you said abou me: Yes, i played infi a lot (actually, most of my playtime is infi time) so i know what infis are capable of and what their usual weaknesses are. This is also the reason i know how to Counter infis, just because of the experience i made on both sides of the sniper-rifle's end
I just want to offer my thoughts on this topic. The reason why I and others think this is fine is because it difficult, prone to failure, and has limitations. A bad sniper with a bad rifle can't kill anything, OHKs and cloaks or not. This is why infiltrators don't get shotguns, why many players consider wraith flashes to be cheesy/OP, and why I personally frown upon SMG infiltrators. A fresh new player can hop in his stock lightning and has six chances to instantly kill another player with very little difficulty from what is often (relative) invincibility from the very players he is firing at. Yet, this is considered OK, and little to no players ever have serious complains about it. Air often can kill players instantly from a position where they are literally unkillable by their targets, be it infantry or vehicle, yet this is also considered OK. (Though, some do have a fair few complaints about it.) Snipers, even aimboters with rifles, cannot kill huge amounts of players no matter how much skill they may or may not have, and are punished for every miss, much more so than the stock lightning, which can kill without ever even actually hitting an enemy. Yeah, it's frustrating to die without even seeing what killed you, nor having a chance to defend yourself. However, snipers are far from the only units capable of this, and are one of the least effective OHK means in the game. Snipers themselves are subject to more OHKs than any other class.
Snipers can be annoying. Especially if there is one that is camping a vehicle terminal or there are 15+ at a zerg. However I find it especially easy to hunt snipers with my LA. As a LA, you can easily get to the hard to reach sniping locations and kill those sniping players. Once you get to a good spot outside of the battle, it's very easy to spot and hunt down these snipers. You can do the same with an Infiltrator but I prefer using a LA armed with a shotgun. Nothing like using a shotgun to backstab snipers who are lost down the barrel.
How does a sniper use a SMG? I find shotgun heavies truly annoying... but I'm not a pansy so I still play.
I really enjoy counter-sniping, whether it's with a sniper rifle or hunting them with a stalker, it's like a mini game within the battle.
