Simple physics for why 0.75 ADS is not OP

The key point to mention is that it's all about how far you move relative to your opponent when you instigate a change.

No, it very important.

Cause you only have to avoid a single bullet to change a loss into a win if you have equal skill. If it only happens 2 out of every 10 gun fights that is still 2 gun fights you win instead of lose.

Every time you switch, the extra speed give you a split second to have an extra bullet miss when you change direction or when they are catching up to you.


If you had to pick between 2 guns. Everything is the same. Except one has 0.75 movement and one has 0.5 every single person will take the 0.75 if they are smart.

Any decent player takes the same time to do a 10 degree rotation and be exactly on target than a 5 degree rotation. Adding 0.1 degree more is not even noticeable. If you can't move 0.1 degree more without taking enough time to lose an extra bullet, then you better fix that aim because either your DPI is not the perfect one for you or FPS games are not for you altogether. This point is even more irrelevant if you consider HAs using their shield and going literally snail speed no matter if they have 0.75 or 0.5.

/sigh. You still have time where you are moving the other way before the person can even react. Meaning you have traveled farther out of their center of fire. They still have to reacquire you. The slower player has to move his mouse farther during this unplanned reaction.

Why would you snap to a play slower just because he is moving slower?? Both players will snap to their target as fast as possible.

oh my god! 0.2 degrees instead of 0.1? But then if you apply the shield speed debuff it makes it back to 0.1 O: so much distance, your wrists must be bleeding.

Btw, if you have crappy reaction time it's normal that you get owned in ADAD fights, because you know 0.25 seconds obviously gives the player so much distance, not to even consider the buffer offered by the size of the body itself which i didn't even mention and further disproves your point.

I always assume the 2 players have equal skill when talking about balance. Human beings have a limit to how fast they can react you even mention that in your OP

now you are ignoring the other point, and it is that relativity does not "solve" the problem and prove anything alone, there are far more variables in play that are simply ignored and must be accounted for to be able to do any sort of meaningful mathematics. most people arent arguing that .75 ads is some huge game braking massive thing, just that it does have an effect, relative to this prescribed combat range and ratio of speeds, relevant for this vector paring or not.

Which means that both player are going to take the same time to readjust their aim even if they have to move an additional 0.1 degree or not. Glad we agree!

That's just not even possible, even if it's a marginal amount of time. Distance is a distance.

Except one player can move farther and faster during this readjust period, they move farther our of center of fire and take longer to re center.

WHICH GIVE THEM THE ADVANTAGE WITH EQUAL SKILL AND EVERYTHING ELSE BEING THE SAME.

skill is not the same as relative reaction time compared to the time it can take a player to cover so many arc seconds.

if both players have to cover say half an arc second for example, and player 1 starts adjusting in anticipation of his own moment he does not need to add his own reaction time to that moment, it is being anticipated and shifted as part of the same action. the other player has no way to know what will happen next so normally does have to take his reaction time plus the time it takes to cover the same arc to adjust.

The player initiating the change in strafe knows it is coming and doesn't see a warping opponent.

It is easily possible to keep your aim on your opponent the entire time if you're initiating the change.

If you're the other guy trying to react to the change then your opponent simply teleports. There are two reasons for this.

1.) There isn't a transition.

I'm going 100m/s to your right but suddenly I've gone 20m to your left by the time your body can react (assuming 200ms).

2.) Lag compensation and prediction.

If I'm going to the right I will keep going to the right on your screen until your client gets word from the server that I've start moving left. Your client shows me continuing to move to the right even though I've started moving to the left on my client. When your client gets my updated position I teleport (or move unrealistically fast).

However, infantry doesn't go at 200ms, they go at 4ms, and if we take account the difference with 0,75 and 0.5, it's 1ms and if we take account the reaction time of a normal person (not even talking about someone who's had experience in doing ADAD fights or figured out the timing when his opponent is going to change direction which becomes obvious after 2 or 3 changes of direction) is 0.25 second, that means there's a 0.25 meter difference, and then if we add the shield (because show me a fight where 2 HA fight and the one not using his shield wins if players have equal skill) then we go down to 0.125 meter difference, and guess what, that's smaller than a player's body:
(the squares in VR are 1.25m large).
So if this difference which is buffered by the body makes an actual difference, then please nerf the Orion to the ground!

@Yuukikun:
Have you ever seen what happens when someone is walking or driving up a hill and disconnects ungracefully? Of course you have. Can you explain to me -- preferably in detail -- what happens in this case and why?

Apply logic to something innately illogical is dangerous.

I think the simplest solution isn't making a complicated vector mechanic for game that already has trouble with resource management.

It's to take what's already in affect and tweak it. Did you know for example sprinting (or movement) in general blooms out your cone of fire? Just make strafing max out the cone of fire. Edit: Better yet, make it bloom out your cone of fire beyond the normal maximum. You are after all paying attention to pointing the gun, not to what you maybe tripping over.

I used to win lots of battles in PS1 with my dinky pulsar simple because I had trained my self to calmly be in at least partial cover, crouch, zoom in, and blast away. Not because on a purely theoretical level my enemy wasn't going to out DPS. Because they're dancing and being in general hit made their fire go wildly out of control, while mine stayed well within the ability to hit them.

If you want to use physics? Seriously, your getting shot with enough for to punch through body armor. How are we holding our aim in anything other then "somewhere in that direction" with bullet riddling us? If we're not getting hit with enough force to knock the wind out of us I don't think we're getting hit with enough force to do more then make us slowly bleed out over several minuets.

Edit: I sort of miss stamina from PS1. (The implant's use aside). Even if you had the health to take a firestorm, if you ran out of stamina you couldn't do more the slowly move. Getting hit drained stamina, iirc.

Edit2: More to the point, consider what getting hit actually does. It gets harder to hold a gun when major nerves or bone structures are being torn to ribbons.

The only thing I understand is that Yuukikun is arguing that 0.75 ADS speed really isn't a significant advantage; and, in fact, you can not even notice the benefit; however, if that is true, then the whole argument trying to defend it is as pointless as the campaign to negate it because removing it isn't going to do anything to the weapon's performance. It's all a waste of energy.

If 0.75 ADS really is supposed to be the thing that distinguishes VS LMGs from their faction counterparts, and other faction's weapons from their alternate faction counterparts without 0.75, but the mechanic is actually toothless, then I suggest we scrap the whole thing and find a better modification for the Orion, et al..

Question: How many people even realized there was a 0.75 bonus to it until the game said there was?

I hadn't even thought about it or noticed it because I'd been too busy trying to recenter the sight from the LGM's recoil.

I ain't going to bother reading all that. But I will provide a very simple statement. If it isn't OP, then give it to all factions and all weapon classes then. Or does it suddenly become OP then? Adversely, you can also remove it from them.

Except for the fact that the HA can only make use of the 0.75 ADS if he chooses not to use his extra durability, so that's not a valid argument.

Would you be ok with giving all other factions access to the Prowlers main cannons, or the Banshee too then? Maybe throw in the Pounders too, just to show your good will?