[NUC] elusive1: Unleashed

On a similar tangential issue...

"Being innocent until proven guilty" is an ethical, moral and social principle crystallized in articles of law. It permeates our behavior on a daily base.

Do you seriously believe it is something valid only in a court of law?

I think in certain settings (as I described) one could almost consider it unethical and immoral to waste so many public resources when there isn't a dire need.

Socially, perhaps, at least in matters involving the law it would be appropriate. Though I personally doubt many people truly look at a suspect whom is strongly implicated of guilt and think to themselves "this person is surely innocent unless he/she can be proven to have committed the crime of which he/she is accused of."

If you're walking down the street one night and some twitchy meth-addict is coming down the sidewalk chances are you wouldn't trust him and would act defensively around him, even though you don't know what his state of mind is or how he would react to you if at all. The possibility is enough for most people to assume the worse.

But anyways, to answer the question yes, if there is a strongly justifiable reason to believe guilt in the absence of the possibility of certainty. Suffice to say I assume most normal players with normal skills and normal stats probably aren't cheating. A really, really good player whom does not exhibit suspicious behavior and does not demonstrate inconsistencies which are difficult or impossible to explain would probably not be cheating. Probably.

The TL;DR version of it is it is the same kind of motion I use for any range + the precision and familiarity of aiming scoped.

I understand you don't find it practical but on the other hand you now have at least three snipers telling of its merits and why we use it. It is kind of weird how your personal preference somehow makes him using it seem odd or suspect at this point. Especially since it has been around for so very long in FPS gaming (especially among snipers). It is an effective method that's stood the test of time.

But it is good that we've moved on from it being a sign of cheating and more to the various and practical ways you can approach CQC sniping.

Well, I don't mean to toot my own horn here but I'm a pretty good sniper too if I do say so myself.

It's obviously not because it's against my personal preference, but because he drag-shoots everything is so much harder to see and verify. He's apparently faster than can be record by the software which is mighty convenient if one were to try to conceal a subtle cheat. If he simply pointed directly at the head and fired it would be much more clear where the crosshairs are, where they're going, how they got there, when the bullet was fired, and where the bullet landed.

Aye, at least we can get something positive out of this thread, though I just don't like using drag-shooting personally.

True. However Fire-while-moving is used to be able to fire faster as opposed to move the cursor then aim and then fire, it is well explained here by Iridar: http://iridar.net/planetside2/weapons/gunplay-guide/

Taking aside "as if one were to try to conceal a subtle cheat" (m8, Torquemada would have hired you on the spot ) , let's make some simple math:
- You drag your mouse at an angular speed of 180 degrees/second, so 3.141593 rad/sec.
- The target is 10 meters away.
- The linear speed is therefore 3.141593 /sec *10 meters =31.41593 meters/sec = 0.03 meters/msec
- You are sampling at 50 FPS, 1 frame every 20 msec
- Between one frame and another the crosshair has traveled 0.03 meters/msec * 20 msec = 0.62 meters.
--> so yes, you can have one frame with the crosshair left of the head and the next frame with the crosshair right of the head (which is approx. 0.15 meters wide) and a shot taken in-between.

Agree. But it wouldn't be drag shooting!

Didn't mean it as a "u bad, bro" comment but more as it isn't really that odd that he's using it. It is a well established practice. I am sure if we can argue for pages about one SMG we can argue the merits of different play styles. Room for both ways and views.

Alright here's a crappy video with average gameplay. These are my hitbox shenanigans from a session earlier this week. I wanted to do frame-by-frame, but 0.25x was as slow as I could make it.

0:03 - Bullet goes behind the guy but I still get the headshot.
0:08 - Hit the guy in the chest and counts as a headshot.
0:17 - Wave the scope around like a magic wand before hitting the guy in the back and counts as a headshot.
0:21 - Upper chest shot gives another headshot.
0.28 - Exact same thing immediately afterwords (example of back to back suspicious shots).
0:33 - The bullet does Wanted-level acrobatics to hit a target I wasn't even close to.
0:39 - Not a hitbox example but an example of why drag-shooting is important. Notice how I panic zoom in on the guy before I realize he's friendly, yet my scope is nowhere near the guy's body, let alone his head. I'm already moving the scope quickly over to him, but I don't start out close to him.

It's essentially a near cousin of the snap shot that folks have been doing since the Railgun came out in quake 2.

Your cursor is at location A, target head is at location B along the line ABC.

You whip rapidly from A to B, often times overshooting B and your cursor going so far as C. BUT... you fire at the exact time your cursor crosses B. Net result is your cursor never actually stops on the target head but you'll make the headshot.

It's not something (for me at least) that you actually try to do. It's just something that organically happens. You get faster and faster at aiming shots until eventually you are firing faster than you can even see yourself....basically making the hand motion and assuming it will work....and with practice it does!

This makes quite a few assumptions on the engagement. Most often the drag won't be at a perfect angle, --Though why 180? Human hands can't draw perfectly straight lines, and even so it's the same as 90 degrees of movement.-- it may change as the crosshairs move. Targets could also be closer and further, and generally people aim for at least 60 FPS, not 50. Regardless Elusive says he gets 144+ FPS which makes quite a difference.

Also are you using real meters or PS2 meters? I'd imagine the former, which would complicate things a bit. Not to take a crap all over your math or anything though.

Yes, I meant it as more of a "I also know what I'm talking about" statement.

I suppose though perhaps I've not been too fair on drag-shooting, though I maintain regardless of intent it does really conceal what's happening around the crosshairs quite a bit.

Everyone in this thread should watch this video. Clears up a lot of the suspicions.

just cause you live steam doesnt mean you arent hacking...

Thou art using foul wizardry sir.

you have all the reasoning and the formulas in front of you, I cannot do more than that...

180 degrees/sec is a measure of angular speed. It has nothing to do with moving the mouse to make an arc of 180 degrees to acquire the target.

Sampling at 100 FPS the crosshair would still move between samples about 30cm so double an head width.

Sampling at 200 FPS (providing your hardware could do that, which I doubt) the crosshair would move between samples about 15 cm so comparable with an head width. You start to really see and understand what's going on.