No C-4 for LA

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Anchor IV, Aug 24, 2014.

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  1. Iridar51

    Are you sure we're playing the same game? Because I'm regularly seeing engineers who rush vehicles, and throw their body at them to drop mines straight under their wheels.
    C4 rushing without skill and prediction only works against bads who would've been blown up by rockets 2 minutes later anyway.
    • Up x 4
  2. Serialkillerwhale

    Yes, yes it does.

    Calling anyone who doesn't waste half his tanks dps against over tanks, and his defensive slot, just to stop a single cheese strategy that risks nothing and takes nothing to pull is a problem.

    If an engineer got mines under a tank, good for him, Light assaults have jetpacks, and can detonate their bombs at will.
  3. Copasetic

    You don't have to do that at all, you just have to press your W or S buttons. Take off the parking break and move around, that's literally all it takes to completely defeat C4 as a threat.

    See AV tanks are not the ones getting C4'd. They're already moving around, avoiding infantry and hunting other tanks. The ones who get C4'd are the HE farmers who park themselves a few meters away from a base and sit there for minutes trying to cheese kills from infantry who are busy fighting other infantry. I'll happily go out of my way to C4 those guys because a) they ruin base fights and b) they make it really easy for me.
    • Up x 4
  4. Moonheart

    No, this is not a problem, this is a weakness.

    Having some weaknesses is normal in any teamplaying game.
    You HAVE to be put at risk, really at risk, by something, and either play really well to escape it despite being a real real danger for you, or rely on teamates to cover this weakness.

    It takes ONE aircraft to cover the *** of ten tanks, for exemple.
    You acted alone and get your *** kicked by a counter?
    Well tanks are not meant to be solo-play tools like, say, infiltrator cloaks. So you deserved it.

    No, LA's C4 is not the problem.
    The fact that tank drivers think they must have no real counter is the problem.

    And this is not even a hard counter but a soft one.
    All LA could tell you that C4 bombing fails pretty often. It just takes the tank to move at the pretty last second to make everything fail.

    I readed something on /yell two days ago: a guy was complaining of snipers, and another one answered him "If you stand still in this game, you deserve to be killed by a headshot"
    Well, I'll tell the same to all tank drivers: "If you stay still, you deserve a good pan of C4"
    • Up x 4
  5. task_master

    clearly you've never certed into sticky nades or fired a weapon
  6. Serialkillerwhale

    I didn't know Sticky nades, or guns could tear a tank apart in 2 shots.

    And incase you haven't figured it out, the counter to tanks is AP Cannons, AV Mana Turrets, Spear Phalanx turrets, Rocket Launchers, and AT Mines.

    Not an ***-hat with instagib explosives and a jetpack.
  7. task_master

    you're right, commie/stickies det tank mines with just 1 shot not 2. you're right about c4 LA not countering tanks too, it's hilariously easy to avoid getting bricked.
  8. MajiinBuu

    Dieing to C4 doesn't necessarily mean you're a bad player, you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The enemy knows you are there, but you don't know they're there.
    The other day(before the performance loss from the 8/29 patch) I was an engineer in the middle of nowhere, on a hill hundreds of meters from Eisa Tech Plant on Esamir, with no other allies around. Suddenly an AP Prowler deployed on the hill to shred our tanks. I snuck up behind them, dropped 3 tank mines and a sticky grenade, I said "Your best is my worst," and they were wiped from existence. Both the driver and the gunner were battle rank 100, they knew exactly what they were doing. They had probably driven a thousand meters to get to that perfect spot, and had only stopped for a few seconds. They didn't lack situational awareness, they had absolutely no reason to think anyone would be on a secluded hill far from the battle. They died to something they had no control over, they didn't deserve to die. They couldn't have predicted my presence, they hadn't planned on needing proximity radar, and the engine noise muffled my footsteps.
    If you spend all your time searching for enemies that might be there, you'd never get anything done. Sometimes things don't go as well as you had planned, and you just have to accept your fate. I know this thread is about C4 on LA, but there isn't much of a difference. Do you want to take Tank Mines away from Engineers as well? Light Assaults need C4 to be useful in a battle, swiftly taking out armor is one of their most important roles.

    And Kobalts aren't just for poor people, they are the best thing for taking out those pesky fairies. They have the best angles, they can aim the furthest down and they can aim as high as a Walker.
    • Up x 2
  9. Moz

    No C4 for LA and we can remove the RLs from HA aswell in tha same patch..... ok?

    C4 is fine on a light assault.... just thank your stars Infiltrators dont have those blocks of doom!
    • Up x 1
  10. lawn gnome

    i dodge C4 LAs all the time in my skyguard, it is not even remotely difficult to do if i am paying any attention at all, and if i don't want to worry about them at all i just find a safe open space or some cover that has a wide open field leading up to it.

    C4 LAs have a bit of an advantage over other infantry (making their C4 use slightly unfair by comparison in my opinion) BUT they are not anything like the unstoppable ICBMs you describe. C4 probably needs a mild rework for the LA but there is no way it needs to be removed.
  11. Leivve

    Every time I die from C4 it's my fault, not the light assault's. I choose not to move, or pay attention not him.
    When I hear "Live free the NC" and turn around to see a HA strapping some bricks to my *** I might shout a profanity, but I never rage about it.
    • Up x 3
  12. Pacifist

    This sums it up. Infantry need a way to deal with tanks and maxes. C-4 gives them that. I personally hate LA. I don't play as it and consider it the most annoying opponent in a fight. However I see the need for it and the need for it to be able to kill vehicles.
    • Up x 1
  13. Moz

    Seems you didnt figure out the hardest counter is C4.

    It is also the easiest counter to avoid, just dont be stupid and park under rock formations or right next to that bridge.

    I get taken out by c4 sometimes in my tank, sometimes being the key word here. Thing is I have the common to realise that chances are I made a mistake with my posistion, eiather that or that lone LA just made a heroic push through a line of enemys to get the 250m to my tank. For that Mr LA deserves a pat on the back.... not a nerf!
    • Up x 1
  14. SupaFlea

    I dunno what game you have played but i don't think you should nerf a classes only useful ability because of mediocre players, you can jet pack on you like, that only help 1 time when C4ing vehicles, and that avoiding the blast, skilled vehicles driver find it quite eat to hit LAs mid air no matter if you air strafing or not, and if you miss one brick you have just made the other ones useless and wasted the points/ LA C4 is most effective against unskilled and tunnel visioned vehicles and only have the ability to destroy 1 vehicle and at person cost. LA's use right now is still to get up to a position and camp, organized outfits and squads never want them no matter how good they are at toe to toe combat
    • Up x 1
  15. Nehlis

    Anyone who says c4 is low risk has obviously not used it to any reasonable extent. It is possibly the highest risk AV infantry option in the game. Rockets and MAX AV weapons can play the peekaboo game of fire and duck behind cover. AV turrets can deal sustained damage over a large range with higher accuracy due to the wire guided ability. Tank mines can be set up preemptively, earning a kill when the engie is far away out of sight of his kill.
    C4 requires you to be literally within touching distance of your target, meaning you have to move to them. If you dont get both bricks on, you cant instagib, and if the tank driver just decides to move 10 meters away for any reason, youve missed or worse, have been run over. If you are spotted at any time before you place both bricks, you've failed and will likely be killed by the tank or anyone who sees you. Giving it to every class (save infiltrator) forces tanks to keep a minimum distance from infantry lines, stay mobile and weeds out tankers with low awareness.
    Considering the only class that does not have C4 is the only one with the spot-dodging cloak, it is a true exercise in stealth to get a C4 kill.
    • Up x 1
  16. Skiptrace

    C-4 Is too cheap to get? the first friggin brick costs 200 Certs! That's ALOT for a new player, even me (a person who has played for about 2 years) I only have C-4 on NC and TR due to the cert refunds on the spawn timer upgrades when Nanites came out, i forgot to buy it on VS because other things took presidence, but now that i have C-4 i play NC LA alot more often with much more sucess, C-4 should replace the LA's Grenade slot. High Explosive grenades are damn near useless and 9/10 i kill teamates with them too... the only thing C-4 needs to make it balanced is, lower blast radius, higher damage, and longer throw range on the ground, akin to say a grenade. your not gonna underhand throw a C-4 Charge, in fact more often than not you would acutally be placing one on a wall to destroy the wall! but since PS2 has no destructible environments we cant do that...

    Tl;DR: C-4 Isnt OP if you just know where they are placed, they have a friggin red **** you light on them, open your eyes...
  17. Alexeikruchev

    1) C4 is the most prevalent technique for destroying vehicles of any type. Medic, Engi, HA, and LA all have access to it. That is 66% of the population. Only MAX units and Infiltrators cannot- and MAX units have other potent AT options.
    2) is designed in an unrealistic fashion to it's real life counterparts, and compares disproportionately well to other dedicated anti-tank weaponry. C4 is an HE weapon. Like the shell type, It should do less damage to heavily armored vehicles than HEAT Weaponry from a tank gun. 1 C4 = 1 HE shell from a Vanguard at most.
    2.5) C4 should require more effort (time) to both deploy and activate.
    3) C4 is an ambush tool, and should be required to be set BEFORE an enemy sees you. Rather than thrown out like magic exploding candy bars of mass destruction. That is what GRENADES are for. Nevermind, grenades rarely one shot an opponent...
    4) Experience with a 5 man squad showed with only 2-3 respawns., we could reliably kill in excess of 5 Sunderers in under 2 minutes, due to gal drop, or Valkyrie insertion. (The Gal Drop at night was most effective). I should preface by saying 3 of the 5 of us were BRAND NEW to planetside. Most of us had =never= attempted the technique before, and many of us only had 1 c4 brick anyway, and had never even used it in combat and had to ASK mid flight how to deploy and detonate them. Yet the enemy was unable to counter us in time.
    5) Potential fixes: Removal of C4 from LA class and/or game entirely (Most extreme). Or reduce damage output to scale with one hit from another mainline AT weapon (Rocket Launcher or Tank cannon). OR disable the ability of C4 to be dropped while in the air or moving. Or restrict the number of C4 bricks to 1 per player per spawn.

    Conclusion: I personally find C4 to be more a frustrating thing to play alongside of than an enjoyable tool to use. It is too powerful a tool for anti-armor use, and is an infuriatingly un-counterable thing to encounter in many infantry scenarios. As a side note, I think C4 should be left at full damage to emplaced weaponry and terminals, as that is what C4 is actually designed to destroy.

    Essay Format: Do not read if summary is good enough for you.

    As a relatively new player to Planetside 2, I have to say this. In vehicles, when I die, 9/10 times, it was C4, even while in large groups of infantry and other vehicles. It is usually an instant kill, and it is simply put a primary tactic. Remember: Not only LAs use C4- medics can use it, HAs can use it, Engis get Tank mines (just as deadly if not more), and that means every single mainline class, Infil excluded, CAN instant kill you by getting that close. C4 is a building destroying device in reality. It is NOT a shaped charge. That would be a tank mine or SLAM adhesive charge. It is NOT for destroying TANKS. If you put a brick of C4 on the side of a tank turret, or it's hull/side, you will burn the hell out of the paint, and give the guy inside some ear-damage. That's about it. You could blow off a track, or if you shoved it on the optics or put it in the right places, you could DISABLE a tank. But NOT kill it without climbing inside the tank itself.

    But C4 in game functions as a manually triggered grenade. C4 should is a deployed, manually activated mine. I think it should have a severe damage nerf versus heavy armor. Because a HEAT round has more anti-armor penetraying power than a c4 brick. And tanks can take 3-4 shells of that type prior to dying. C4 should equal -one- hit from a HE shell from an enemy tank, at MOST. And that's because it is an HE weapon, and should function as such. (Remember, C4 is an anti-materiel and structure tool, it is NOT an AT weapon in design.)

    That way, it should be used as an AMBUSH weapon. NOT a kamikaze weapon. You have AT grenades and rocket launchers for that. Or for infantry, regular grenades.

    The use of C4 -does- require some degree of skill. However, it does not fill the proper role of C4, and in the hands of even tiny coordinated groups has a disproportionate impact on the battlefield compared to other tools for the same thing. And it does this OVER and OVER again. And in the case of sunderers, there is a HUGE incentive to go for the kamikaze rush with C4 and a jetpack. And lets not ignore the infamous flying c4 toss through a doorway for room clearing. Given it is FAR more effective than grenades (which are MEANT to be thrown through doorways...
  18. Nehlis

    I'm pretty sure its been said over that C4 is not based on the plastic explosive in real life, and has been reiterated multiple times that the IRL argument has no sway over competitive balance. C4 is fine as is. Kamikaze bumrush attempts will end in failure 99 percent of the time, where as coordinated efforts, stealth and skill will succeed. Throwing into doorways only woks if there are large groups stacked up right next to it, where a grenade has the same effect for lower cost (the bounce mechanics of which are another beast altogether). Moreover it takes 2 bricks of c4 to kill anything bigger than a flash, as well MAX units with ANY points into flak armor. Since every class can only fit up to 2 (with the exception of engie), this gives them an tank killing potency of a whopping 1. 2 c4 cannot destroy a sundy without shields, requiring up to 3 players to destroy one with shields (5 blocks at least). If you are dying to c4 in a tank it is because you lack situational awareness and have been standing in the same place for far too long with tunnel vision. It is the most high risk explosive device in the game to use, due to its minimal operational range and delay.

    If there should be any nerf to it at all, it should be that it must be placed, not dropped, onto a surface. This would include MAXs and vehicles.
    Second, it should be disarmable without the use of EMP grenades. This is something I do find a little ridiculous, since if 1 c4 is placed on a tank, hitting it with a rocket can usually oneshot, and they don't despawn until the placer respawns.

    If C4 is removed from the LA, you will need to give them something SUITABLY POWERFUL to compensate, since their tactical value will be vastly diminished.
  19. Iridar51

    Ehh, no. Harassers, Valkyries and ESFs take 1 brick.
    • Up x 1
  20. Copasetic

    Sorry but that's a skill problem. You can only die to C4 when you aren't moving for long periods of time, so you're spending too much time sitting still. Drive around some more and that number will change to 1/10 just like that. Don't just follow the other masses of tanks inching their way up the road in a big group or sitting in front of a gate shield waiting for the infantry on the other side to blow the gen.

    It's really no different than dying to snipers as infantry. Go stand on a rooftop in the middle of a fight and stop moving. Really just stand there, see how long it takes to get pegged by some infiltrator somewhere. That's an instant kill too, is it OP? Most people wouldn't think so because "just move around a bit and you won't die" or "it was your own fault for standing there like an idiot for so long". And those people are right, it was your fault. Use the same attitude when driving a tank near infantry infested areas and you'll reduce your C4 deaths by 90%, I'm sure of it.
    • Up x 4
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