New spiker changes

Honestly, I don't think the Cerberus is that bad.
It could probably use an extra feature, say, 25 AOE damage with a half meter Radius, Or maybe a musket-shot type attack, or anything that grants it slightly higher CQC potential. But as a Stalker Infiltrator weapon, it has a niche thanks to it's 2-shot kill potential with Headshots.
Though I'd be cool if it fired 3 pellets on a horizontal line, to kinda imitate it's namesake.

As i said, it's not terrible, and arguably the best of the 3 semi-autos in its 8m min damage range. Yet its design (yet an other sem- auto high damage/shot+ CQC gun damage fall-off) is clearly inadequate, specifically in the comparison with the Manticore(since it's hard to match the Beamer's RoF). Looking at that it sort of feels like they wanted it with a higher damage model, but didn't follow through.

I also don't think any gimmicky AoE damage would change that: it's nice to have uniqueness, which the Spiker already provides, but it would be nicer to have a true CQC option.

the Spiker's primary firemode is where it needs to be.

however, the charge-up still feels like a waste of time when using it. right now, a charged shot does 500 damage at closerange against non-nanoweave targets. therefore, you still need TWO bursts (doing 668 damage) to finish someone off since one burst only does 334 damage.

in my view, they should bring the charge-up shot to 670 damage so that one additional burst is enough to finish someone off (since 670+334=1004). otherwise, the charge-up is nothing but a pointless gimmick. it reminds me of the holiday guns: funny to use but extremely ineffective. now, Vanu has finally gotten its own empire-specific holiday gun, how neat

Actually the charged shot does less than 500 damage, it doesn't even do 450. A headshot or 2 body charged shots will leave the dummy infiltrators with a sliver of health, and whether you face an infiltrator or standard infantry, you will need 2 charges+a single shot to get the target down.
So the damage from the charge is somewhere around 420~430.

I could reliably kill target dummies at 20 meters with two fully charged shots.

I suggest you retry. 2 body shots won't kill anything on live server, i had just retested to be certain prior to posting, to be sure the live version was the same as the latest from the PTS (at point blank of course).

Just went on Test again, 20 meters 2 charges worked more often than not.
With Silencer, obviously a bit less, so 20 meters seems to be the outer edge.

Didn't check on live.

Turns out you are correct. I was certain i'd tested it but turns out i've been imagining things. I am right on the headshot part though, which means the charged headshot multiplier isn't 2x.

am I incorrect or does it 2HKOes snipers at any range with 2 charged shots?

btw I really like the gun model and the 2x burst, but the charge is useless imho. with or without charge mechanic I think this is the best vanu sidearm O:

I'd say the Charge is good enough to be used on a main weapon.
Tighter CoF, Faster Projectile speed and outer AOE, and this would be reasonable for an Assault or Battle Rifle that preferably also has a reasonable main fire mode (better than the burst).

What exactly is it, though?
The AOE doesn't have a multiplier, but the direct damage seems to reasonably close. I managed to get a dummy to low enough HP that I think a single regular body shot would have killed it, but as I hit the head regardless, I will never know. I'm also not sure if that was an Infiltrator,

From what i've deduced, shooting at feet just now, the AoE is very probably a 143dmg value at point blank: it barely breaks shield at 3 shots for an infiltrator, and gets more into it on standard dummy with 4 shots. I estimated there was 85% left on the health bar in that latter instance, that's a total of ~575damage done in 4 shots, which would mean ~143.75/shot.

Since the charged shot does 500dmg, that'd put it at a value of ~357 bullet damage+143 AoE damage. So a headshot would be something like 714+143. That's pretty close to what appears left when you headshot the dummy infiltrator.
That value would also be consistent with the fact that a single shot is still enough to kill a standard dummy. after a headshot.

Very close, direct damage is 350, AOE is 150; AOE does not have multiplier so total headshot damage within 25 meters is 850. AOE damage doesn't falloff after 25 meters, but the direct damage does.

Thanks for those informations, BBurness

I'm getting more and more used to the new spiker, and I like it so far.
It's a huge improvement from before, while I have not recieved any complaints from my opponents about it.

I'm using the new version almost like the old one (I'm a stalker), but with some changes... here are the new things that the new spiker allow me:

0 - 15m : The new DPS allow me to engage more trutfuly targets that are not completly still, because missing the initial headshots is not the "gameover" signal it used to be. It still something I better not miss if I can, but it's not calling for a miracle to recover to it... just tricky.

15 - 25m : No change. My targets needs to be still, distracted and lonely to afford the risk to make my cloak be heard while it desactivate, then the spiker when it charges.

past 25m: Before I only used the old spiker to provide a little of damage assistance at such distance. However, now, I think it's a fun distraction tool. when a pack is not looking toward me, I can land some AOE damage once or twice at their shields and disrupt their concentration before the contact.
However, it's all that the charged shot is good at such distance: since it's unlikely you will land a direct shot, the damage is limited to 150 of AoE damage at each charge... so you'll need 7 charges and 3 reloads to kill someone like that ^^

The 0-15m change is the most noticeable. It's good to feel that you are not bound to die if anything make move your target at the last second when you uncloak... still, I'm never going to uncloak to shoot at someone who's running or facing my way with the Spiker, not even at a TR stalker (Repeater truly hurts)

I'd like to see the charge work like a combo manticore/NS-44.

While in charge mode:
Don't charge it and you have a 14 round manticore.
Charge it and you get a no bullet drop NS-44 round (450 @ 8m 225 @ 42m) and you can put a silencer on it!

The charge rounds would fire slower than an NS-44 (at about 150 rpm if you charge as fast as possible for every shot) but you'll only be charging rounds for ranged use anyway.

The shots show impact effects when they pass through the invisible game shields that keep people from running around by the targets downrange.

Test it out on targets outside on the terrain if you want to escape that.
(I really hate that they haven't fixed that issue yet.)

The charge up mode seems like it takes 2 shots to kill someone so it seems like an alternative to the X-bow which also takes 2 shots. Since it takes a charge up to do that, fighting in snap CQC situations means your probably dead, though you probably will hit with one shot, not killing your opponent and thus getting (at most) a Kill assist.

Thus the faster rate of fire, but still 2 shot, mode is your CQC mode. So how well does this mode fightin CQC as a viable weapon for the Stalker cloak since that is really what this weapon should be fore. Sure other classes and a Hunter cloak infilitrator can use it, but it is not designed for them and they might as well be served by one of the other pistols.

Personally, I think I'd rather just have no charge up mode, and instead make it 3 shots per shot, and thus say I squeeze the trigger twice, like I do with the Mag Shot for my NC. 2 shots with the Mag Shot = death for someone within whatever the shorter range is (10m?). Point is, it is an effective weapon and I like the rate of fire. I can go Bam, Bam and it is not too fast, nor too slow and gets the job done BUT there is a chance I might miss and the there is a chance I can die so this weapon is not absolute, it merely can be potentially effective in CQC and I have zero complaints about it.

Whereas, the TR's machine gun pistol is similar and really just means you need to sit there for a few seconds while it sprays the target to death, and beyond a certain point it is highly inaccurate. I like the gun find.

So relative to all that, how did the Spiker do and does it fulfill the same type of role as a viable gun I can use as a stalker cloak and engage in CQC combat for quick kills. Again, i can always use another pistol, but if you do that, the idea of 'quick death' is greatly diminished. The Cerebus if you are within a very close range needs 4 shots. Four squeezes of the trigger and if you miss even one time you have a good chance that you'll die.

If the Spiker does 167 damage (x2) = 334 damage, and you need 1000 or so to kill then you need at least 3 shots to kill. No, wait, you need 4 shots. Same as the Cerebus.

Was the intent of the Spiker redesign to give the stalker cloak a weapon that can fill a role like the X-bow AND the cerebus combined? If so that is what the new redesign basically can do. The drawback is the X-bow is much farther range in its role and thus if you are going to snipe it is still a better weapon I think in that regard though perhaps I need to test it more, but right now that is how I feel.

If it were me, I'd have dropped the alternative mode and just did 3 shots per shot, then the result would be 167 x 3 = 501 and I would keep the rate of fire basically what the Mag Shot is. So you can potentially squeeze the trigger twice and get a kill IF you are within that 10 m mark. Thus you an uncloak and if you are fairly close potentially get the sneak kill. That is really what that weapon should be for.

Then make the weapon drop off damage severe like 81 or 71 past that point. So if your not close then you might need 5 or 6 shots to kill. If the rate of fire is kept roughly what the Mag Shot is, it would all work out.

So then why do people want an area of effect weapon. You realize when you fire it, though it appears as an 'area of effect' unless the targets are literally standing right next to each other, basically in the same spot the area of effect is too small to mean hitting more than one target at a time. It is an illusion of the area of effect. A real area of effect would be more like the AV MAX weapon for VS that launches plasma balls (i think it is called the cosmos). That is a real area of effect.

Yes, I would like it if the spiker were like that or a hand held lasher, but I dont think they'll design it that way so I doing it the way I suggested seems fine.

Either way, thank you for the redesign it is better than it was before. Do I expect it to be redone or tweaked soon enough? No, but should you consider it? Yes, because it was redesigned and you should give some time for feedback and then after a bit, if many feel it should be tweaked a bit, consider doing so. I'm just giving my feelings on it.

I still think the Spiker is not as good as the Mag Shot or the TR's machine pistol and I do not hink the Spiker is worth 1000 certs right now. I do think those other two are worth that.

So if you are considering the Spiker and you want to snipe, just get the X-bow. If you want a more viable weapon in CQC you might be just as well served by the Cerebus which costs just as much and I generally like it better to use with my other classes AND the fact you can get the Cerebus as part of a bundle, and you cannot get the Spiker.

Given all that, buy the Spiker if you want, but I would do the Trial first if I were you.

What?
I don't get it, whenever I fire a charged shot, it takes out the shield. Did you nerf it?

I got it last Friday as soon as I logged on. Thanks to the charged shot, it is officially my favorite VS pistol and my favorite pistol in the game

But, but, but...
I like the current charged mode

The charge should 1 shot headshot.