Mines are too powerful. Solution? Lower damage, increase number of mines to carry/deploy

Get the mineguard ffs if you are planning on being the forward sundy. I don't think I have mineguard equipped on any of my vehicles atm and I don't remember the last time I blew up to mines (granted, I don't play sundy much, but I tank quite often).. dunno are you guys like deliberately trying to hit mines or something.

But then if mineguard is required then what's the point of using anything else? And then when everyone uses mineguard people will start complaining that mines are underpowered.

How is not killing something a way to deny area? 99% of the causal gamer will not even notice that there is a minefield...Uh a bit of dmg...maybe a lonly HA or tank...lets keep driving..some more dmg...hm....nothing to worry about because that mines will not kill. And as soon as the first vehicle made it through the field it will be nonexistant. How do you picture that stopping anything?!

If anyone really starts complaining that mines are underpowered due to mineguard then you obviously ignore the **** out of them. It'd be like Annihilator-users complaining that flares are overpowered or something.

And mineguard isn't required. It's just required if you don't want to lose a sunderer that an engineer just ran past your entire tunnel-visioned team to get to. Other solutions exist, but mineguard is a straight hardcounter.

I still don't see how mines being basically an insta-kill versus a sundy can be called 'balanced'

Everything. Everything is the point of C4. C4 is useful for everything. The only problem is that it's 25 resource points more expensive than tank mines.

2 C4 blows up all tanks and ESFs. 3 Sunderers and Liberators. LAs can carry 2, Engineers 4 (pouch upgrade).

If you're feeling like a jerk, if you see someone and his buddies hop out of their liberator to ghost cap a point, you can run up and plant 3 C4 onto it, go hide again, wait until they all get in and take off, then blow them up. Replace Liberator with Scythe, tank, or Sunderer.

You can jetpack and drop C4 onto tanks. Favorite tactic of LAs.

You can drop C4 at a MAXs feet and fly away. Another LA tactic.

You can kill mineguarded Sunderers with 3 C4 the same as a blockade sunderer, stealth sunderer or what have you.

You can set traps with C4. You can use it as a force amplifier for your tank mines or AP mines.

You can strap it to the hood of your flash and suicide into tanks and Sunderers.

You can strap it to the belly of your ESF and land on top of a Sunderer.

You can stick it to the capture point and set it off once 6 people are on the point. C4 is very hard to see if you're not looking for it.

You and a couple engineer buddies can fly to the tech plant, sabotage all the phalanx turrets, and blow them when your zerg gets there and the defenses get manned.

You can stick one on top of the Crown to properly thank drop podders for stopping by.

You can stick one on your Sunderer and blow it up when it's low on life if you're a bit of an ******* and like to make your enemies rage (assuming they do something about deconstruct).

You can eat it. It makes you feel funny in a good way or so I hear.

C4 is awesome.

Wait, wait, I'll answer my own question.

MINEGUARD. Really, once mineguard becomes mandatory they should just remove it and nerf mines by an equivalent amount instead.

never used mineguard in my life, lost 5-6 sundys to AT mines in total, **** happens. Death is irrelevant in PS2. If you want the same sundy to survive, use mine guard its there for a reason.

its an Anti Tank mine, they are made to kill 55ton MBT's...If you ever saw a Battle tank in real world they are HUGE!! now imagine a small explosive device that a human can carry around easily an place in the ground to blow up said tank (Usually AT mines disable them instead of obliterate). But that wouldn't be any fun in game so it destroys them.

As has been explained to people 20 times, You have every single counter to mines given to you in game, its down to you to use them, coming to forums an demanding nerfs because you dont want to use those tools says volumes.

It's a high risk tactic with an extreme hardcounter with moderate resource costs.

C4 requires more time to throw than tank mines,does less damage per explosive, and requires player input to detonate. If the user is killed before he hits the detonator then the C4 does not go off. Also it has greater splash than mines so unless the user suicides they have to move further away to safely detonate it. You just have a chance of stopping the explosion. The only change to C4 I can ask for is the ability to remove bricks that haven't detonated. Also C4 is meant to be used in this manner. The AT mines were meant to be defensive or traps but I have seen only a few people use them like this.

Also right now C4 is being regulated as some sort of super grenade instead of an AV weapon since tank mines kinda took that job. I want C4 to be back in its former glory as a main AV weapon.

I've fallen victim to that before, its rare but it happens, I get frustrated in the moment but it ultimately is my fault for running into a trap. Similarly I have died to two AT mines being placed in common sunderer parking spots. Or AI mines near those spots to take down infantry leaving the sunderer. Again I am frustrated when it happens but often end up sending a /tell with something along the lines of "well played" or similar praise. The difference is that you would be using mines as a trap, not as an assault explosive. Traps can be disarmed if someone is attentive enough while even a well defended vehicle can get easily gibbed by a suicide engineer who just has to sprint close with mines equipped and quickly click twice. Even for a well defended vehicle that tactic is hard to detect and counter. C4 is harder to suicide with and offers the defenders a much larger window to take the attacker out.

AV mines have historicly had the option to use a fuse and be thrown as AV grenades. Saying its not how mines are suposed to be used is wrong, because its exactly how they are suposed to be used, to kill vehicles, however you can.

Because you have to run up to the Sunderer and drop at least two mines underneath it. There are plenty of ways to stop the engineer before he is standing right next to your Sunderer. TTKs in this game are under 1 second, everyone carries at least 2 guns, and there are 2 turrets on the Sunderer.

You don't need Mineguard, you just need to defend your Sunderer or park it somewhere that is hard for the engineer to get to.

People don't want to use mineguard because they want to farm the extra exp from filling ammo and such is my guess. I always deploy with mineguard by default, unless there are plenty of sunderers already and people are asking for ammo or repairs.

I'm personally more scared of flying light assaults that drop C4 out of the sky. Those you hardly see because people don't always look up. Engineers have to actually run out there and risk getting shot to toss the mines.

This. If any "perk" becomes mandatory, it becomes broken. I provided a different solution to the problem in the OP. One that is familiar to PS1 Devs. It really, really worked in PS1, and I think it could do wonders in PS2. That being said, I also think it should require a significant amount of certs to lay down more than 6-8 mines

You seem to be confused so let me try to help you.

If you are an AMS Sundy, that is your play style. You are the spawn point. You want to do that job the best you can. Lets look at what defensive options are available to you to help.

In the defensive slot there are 6 options which can be broken down into two categories: Personal Defense and Defense By Helping Other Vehicles.

Vehicle Ammo Dispenser and Proximity Repair System fall under the latter. You pick these defensive options when you know your main defense for your AMS Sundy is going to be a Friendly Tank or a Friendly Battle Sundy. I have seen people use this exact strategy and it is effective. What I was saying in my earlier post though is that people use these defensive options WITH NO OTHER FRIENDLY VEHICLES AROUND. If you have done this, you can't complain if your Sundy is destroyed quickly because you have chosen the wrong defensive option for your situation.

Now lets look at the Personal Defense options. Nanite Auto Repair received a buff recently, but I don't see anyone use it still. I believe this is because of the fact that you have to take damage and manage to get to safety quickly in order for it to be effective. This isn't a very good option for an AMS Sundy because you are deployed and not moving. You can't move away for repairs to begin.

Blockade Armor provides all around defense bonuses to your Sundy, except for against mines. With this upgrade you can with stand rocket pod barrages, C4 LAs, and HA rocket attacks much easier. You are still very vulnerable to mines and that is your weakness with this defensive option.

Mine Guard is the hard counter to mines. Now it takes several more mines than an engineer can carry to destroy your Sundy, and you have plenty of times to make repairs and tighten your defenses in between engie suicide runs. You are still vulnerable to other types of damage, but you can no longer be killed by a single suicide engie.

The last option is Vehicle Stealth. The first rank makes your Sundy not appear on radar and increases the time it takes to lock on to your Sundy, and each rank after the time to lock on is increased further. Certing in to the first rank of this is an acceptable choice for covert small scale deployments. In a large scale assault though, it won't help much because the enemy can just follow the line of reinforcements back to your Sundy. The additional lock on time can be nice if you deploy at a distance.

As you can see, most AMS Sundys should be running Blockade Armor or Mine Guard to protect against the most dangerous threats to them. You should only use Vehicle Ammo Dispenser or Proximity Repair System IF THERE ARE OTHER VEHICLES TO PROTECT YOU. Otherwise you can't complain about being destroyed.

Mine Guard is not mandatory, it is just the best option for most people's way of defending their AMS Sundy which is to leave it abandoned and zerg rush the base. This way, if an engie manages to get to your Sundy, you or one of your allies can repair the damage the engie caused and go back to pew pewing.

I wish I could have as much optimize as you that mines could be a successful deterrent, but I believe in order for this to be so a fundamental attitude change would need to occur among the player base.

Why do players currently not mine roadways? Because the effect on the enemy force is minimal. For example, me and my outfit once mined the road leading to Quartz Ridge from Hvar Tech Plant. The TR armor column came as expected and sure enough they fell into our trap. About 3 tanks and 2 Sundys were destroyed, so around 6 engies laying mines. This didn't matter though. We had used a lot of resources, and the column barely even flinched. Even after the first tank was destroyed, they kept driving forward. They didn't stop to look around or attempt to disarm the mines. Why would they not care? Because there are plenty of replacements right behind to take their place. Our mine field isn't going to stop the assault. What is going to stop it is waiting for the AMS Sundys to deploy and taking them out by any means necessary. Our Libs in the air with Daltons can deal with any tanks while we mine their AMS Sundys. With no place to re-spawn, the assault is pushed back to where ever the nearest re-spawn point is. Fresh vehicles will be spawned and the carnage continues.

To your hallway example, you could mine the whole hallway, and people would still run down it. Why? Death means nothing. You have used resources to secure my death, but my 11 buddies are now closer to the point. Grenades and bullets also set off the mines so now that they have seen that I died to a mine they throw one or two grenades down the hall and all the mines explode clearing the path. That is if you had an organized squad. The zerg rush wouldn't even care. They would tunnel vision into the hall one by one until all of the mines have been destroyed. Crawling over the bodies of the dead because who cares? You can respawn around the corner.

You're ideas sound great, but the zerg mentality that dominates this game makes a road minefield pointless. I will admit that the hallway scenario would indeed slow the enemy down though, but not by much or for very long considering all the resources you poured into the trap.

Perhaps if the cost and re-spawn time of vehicles were increased your ideas could gain some traction, or as I said the wreckage of vehicles has to be despawned manually or has a longer timer, but until then whats the point of laying more mines that do less damage? It isn't going to deter the zerg rush. Your idea for proximity mines could work though, but it would take immense coordination and would have to be cost efficient so you could defend the point once the enemy gets there.

Takes two without mine guard, dont exaggerate.

Solution:cert mine guard.

um no

Yes, you are right. I was misinformed originally. I was not lying to exaggerate, I just thought it was only a single mine. Nonetheless, it's absurd at 2.