Mines are too powerful. Solution? Lower damage, increase number of mines to carry/deploy

You want to know why many people don't take threads like this seriously? The same reason I blow up Sunderers with mines all the time and have no remorse or problem. PEOPLE DO NOT BUILD THEIR SUNDYS RIGHT.

Every time I see an AMS Sundy with Vehicle Ammo Dispenser or Proximity Repair System I run straight to it with a vengeance. If you are too stupid to not bother putting a defense cert, like Mine Guard or Blockade Armor, on your Sundy that you are using for AMS you deserve to have your Sundy destroyed.

Before tank mines became so common, I at least put the 30 certs into Vehicle Stealth on my Sundy so it didn't show up on radar. Many people still don't even do that! They just put 50 certs into AMS and think they can start a cert factory.

So when scrubs message me and say "**** you mine noob." It makes my day, and will continue to make my day for all time until people stop being so stupid.

As to your desire for a minefield, while that would be BA...I honestly don't see it working unless they made it so vehicles don't automatically deconstruct when they are destroyed. Like an engie has to come out and use his tool to remove the wreckage or a longer timer or something. It would be great to slow a convoy down like that.

With the current system though, minefields are just not viable. For the resource cost, stopping 2-3 tanks or Sundys out of the 20 headed your way isn't really helpful. Better to just located the AMS Sundys and suicide mine then.

In Planetside 1 if you hit a mine, you would stop your vehicle and not move forward. Nobody likes getting blown up by stuff they can avoid. It's a good enough of a deterrent.

They didn't need to have wreckage. It wasn't about destroying the enemy vehicle, it was about denying them passage through an area. It was extremely effective. Imagine running down a hallway and hitting a mine. You're not dead, but are you going to keep running down that hallway? No. Are the guys behind you going to run down that hallway? No. They'll have to take out the mines somehow first. This slows them down. If they rambo it, they die. This is defense. It's not always about killing your enemy, it's about preventing your enemy from accomplishing their objective. That is what defense in this game really lacks.

Right now, down that same hallway, if the first guy gets hit by a mine he dies, everybody runs down the hallway and caps the point. The mines didn't slow them down at all.

Mines are not area denial weapons here, they are just meant for easy kills. They are just as useful on the offense as they are on a defense because they are pointless on the defense. They need to be reworked. The mentality is terrible.

If the minefields are too weak, then I'd say all you'd to clear them for a convoy is a fully mineguard certed Sundy barreling his way down it, he might blow up if the minefield is set up right but in the end, all you've accomplished is the same effect most mines would do nowadays, kill one vehicle and they're done.

If I hit a mine while I'm barreling down a road I ain't gonna screech to a halt and say "Whoa I ain't going down there" I'm gonna laugh it off, repair, and continue on my way. Same exact solution for your weaker, more numerous minefields. Both will slow me down and both will fail to kill me.

In fact the perfect solution that will probably take the same amount of time as currently is a mineguard sundy rolling slowly through the minefield with engis in tow repairing. I don't see that hard to do for a convoy.

Oh it's not like they could reduce the strength of the mineguard too. Oh wait. I've been saying that repeatedly.


Oh and you are going to stop and repair? GOOD. That means that WE HAVE MORE TIME TO SHOOT AT YOU.

It's not freaking rocket science.

Imagine, for a second, a game like this:

Mines are free. Each engineer carries 5.

Engineers are given access to ejection seats.

Each mine is enough to destroy a light vehicle or an aircraft. 2 mines is enough to destroy anything in the game.

A platoon can only have 3 tanks at a time.

Mines detonate on proximity.

Mine Guard does not exist.

Mines cannot be spotted with the aid of night vision or magic, but must be visually verified.

Mines cannot be destroyed by shooting at them.

Engineers can remove mines with their repair tool.

Are you scared?


You shouldn't be:

BF2

Because I use stealth to place my sunderer far behind enemy lines or blockade armor to made mad rushes through heavy combat and survive tanks and rockets. My problem isn't the damage mines do however. It is the tactic and the tactic alone. It requires minimal effort to take out a sunderer. Sure we should defend/ hide our sunderers and I at least try too. However the guns on a sunderer are placed far too high to provide an adequate defense against nearby infantry and as much as I try I end up being the only one sitting at my sundie defending it while everyone else goes to assault. As annoying as it is to see my sundie blown up by mines 9 times out of 10 I still would rather get my sunderer there in the first place and offload the troops (yea I run an AMS but try and get a full load to offload before running to a base).

I agree with and have posted pretty much the same idea as the OP. There really is no good way to alter the current mine to stop the current tactic so an overhaul to prevent this tactic is kind of necessary. Mines need to be a preemptive defense / Trap weapon instead of an assault weapon.

My mine idea.
Stock mines should give 3-5 for every 1 you can currently carry and have their damage decreased accordingly, all 3-5 put together should net slightly higher damage than current mines but have a minimum placement distance from each other. Mineguard should scale to match, giving the sunderer the ability to push through a minefield kind of like how the shield buster Utility lets it push through base shields. The new mines should be harder to see from vehicles as well.
Current mines should still exist but be altered to take more time to place since the newly scaled mineguard will end up being less effective. Certing should reduce the placement time instead of rewarding more mines, meaning only 1 mine carried at a time. These are meant to be either the "kill mines" to take out those damaged by the stock mines or highly damaging mines that let the weaker mines take down vehicles.
Also an EMP/ Disruptor mine would be a great addition. Low to no damage but stalls the engine and/or puts vehicle Utilities (AMS, Anchored / shield / magburner, IR smoke, ect.) on a cooldown.

Together these would be far MORE effective at taking out vehicles than the current system, letting a group of 2-6 engineers deny an entire area to a tank zerg. Also it makes C4 more than just a super grenade since it is now the go to weapon for taking out parked or unaware vehicles, since you would need to either resupply with the current mines or use ~8-10 new stock mines to take down a non mineguarded parked vehicle.

If they reduce it to the same amount of comparitive difference then it isn't going to matter much though is it, especially considering how even a default sunderer will be much more tougher to kill with mines.

Ok go for it, that could happen anyways currently. The solution I provide for yours however doesn't involve me stopping, it involves me moving forward whilst being repaired while the bunch of tanks and sundys behind bombard yo ***. Wouldn't be moving any slower than what convoys do in combat situations now.

This is how I would fix mines.

Reduce the damage of each individual mine by 2/3s. Meaning it does a third of the damage it does now. When you cert into a mine, you get a mine layer instead of individual mines. When you lay this down, it puts down one mine plus four others in an 'X' pattern. The mines are far enough from each other that when one explodes, they all do not.

A couple of engineers fully certed into mines would be able to mine up an entire stretch of road. What this would do is one of two things:

1. Actually slow down the advance of an armored column (as they either run over the mines and stop to repair, or pick them out and destroy them).
2. Severely damage a column that chooses to ignore it making them easier for heavies to clear out once they reach the base.

The side effect is mines wouldn't be very effective at killing deployed sunderers. Only one mine would hit for a third of the damage they do now. Meaning you need 6 mine packs or 21 against a Mineguarded sundy (though blockade armor may be used more for sundies since it would take 6 without).

The other side effect is how dangerous minefields would be to infantry. Even though they cannot set off mines themselves. Multiple mines and multiple vehicles means more explosions, making for a very chaotic situation for a column that hits a minefield. Damaged vehicles would need to pull back or off the road to repair. Opening themselves up for Heavies and Sniper fire. Or god forbid if there's some mines off the road.

C4 would be unaffected of course.

Those mines wouldn't be effective at killing anything, even if they were moving. The distance between those mines would be wide enough for Sunderer to drive through, as mines on one end of the Sunderer detonate those on the other end.

Cert up the Sundy on Mine Guard. That's how I avoided the insta Mine kill. If not just stay and guard your big bubba.

NO
they are not

cert a mineguard, problem solved
cert it to 4 and you need TWO (2) engies suiciderushing you
cert to max and you need up to three

that you get suiciderushed is YOUR problem not one of gamedesign or "omg op, nerf". mineguard level 1 + manning your mgs, maybe 2 guys that guard your forward spawn and only the suicidepart remains

was easy, wasnt it?

4 is max for the sundy :S I think you mean 3. But yes, the point still stands.

No Problem with the actual Idea but the dmg is to low. You would have to trigger 66% of the WHOLE minefiled to kill a UNGUARDED Sunderer? Realy? Why should he bother stoping? Just drive through...whats the chance of hitting that 10 mines in a row. Guraded Sunderers with the % that is now in the cert would simply ignore minefields alltogether.

Maybe make it 25% healthdmg and define a minimum deploydistance to each other so that he has time to stop but wen he doesnt..boom.

I think that is it what MANY, not all but many whiners dont get. Changing the mine will not change the sundererdeaths. It will just change the whiningtopic from mine to C4. And hands down C4 is rather weak effect<->prize

Because mines are cheaper...as is mineguard. It will still change nothing as engis are still able to kill sunderers in 3-4sec. They wont even notice that is was C4 if they are not killed in the blast.

Rock: Nerf Paper NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
Paper: F ROCK, nerf Scissors!!!!! RAWR!!!!!!!!!!!
Scissors: I'm completely balanced, nerf rock YESTERDAY!!!!
Lizard & Spock: Why did we ever start playing with these guys???

This is not intended to be overly snarky, though it will sound it, but SOE already shot tanks and Sunderers in the wheels, literally, with the new AV turret for engineers. I doubt you will be seeing anymore mine attacks from these engineers, they'll be more than happy to just peg you with their new toys. If you haven't seen their effectiveness, you should check it out.

Now I'll get back on topic.

I have to ask, if your main problem with this is the tactic and the tactic alone, why is C4 alright and tank mines aren't? In the current game, they're virtually interchangeable, and Engineers can carry up to four C4, 3 of which is enough to kill a Sunderer with there being absolutely no defense for it. An engineer dropping C4 and an engineer dropping tank mines is the exact same amount of effort, with the exception that C4 sticks and you can't just undeploy and drive away from C4 the instant you see an engineer running at your sunderer carrying clay (whereas with tank mines you'd probably undeploy by the time the engineer is in range and be driving away and outside the maximum damage zone before the AT mines arm properly).

I'm afraid I don't understand where you're coming from on this for that reason. Is it that tank mines are used like C4, then? If I laid my tank mines at the exit ramps of enemy vehicle spawn pads, and someone spawned a Sunderer, auto rolled onto the first coming off, then the second 5 yards away and exploded, would you be happier with this tactical use? I'm honestly asking your opinion.

Why hasn't anyone been paying attention to this post?

Mines are for defense and area denial. People are complaining because the way mines are right now makes them extremely easy to abuse on the offense.

I'm pretty sure mines have been used offensively both in video games and real life before PS2.

This is exactly why it is broken. There shouldn't be a right way. Players should be able to select a config that suits their play style.

I really like the idea of limiting how close you can place mines together.

But what about in THIS video game in particular? the general impression I'm getting is that mines being used offensively is just causing gameplay problems so far. Plus, if mines can be used on the offense then what's the point of C4?

No, the solution is mineguard. You know, the actual counter for mines - so stop being a whiny noob.