[Suggestion] How to Stop Bailers

Comment left intact coz'... Curmudgeon.

My gawd this country / world needs more of these, them and those. I enjoyed every wacky word. Truth baby, served hot.

(I just had a truthful post deleted by the 'cat-gash' that couldn't handle the truth. I wish someone had quoted it first.) Enjoy.

Bailing out is an option available to everyone, its a part of the game, its not going to change, so quit crying. Sneaking around as a ***** *** infiltrator is part of the game. Is it ****** to get stabbed while spawning a vehicle, hell yeah it is. But again, it's part of the game. Does it suck when you pull a vehicle and some smart *** engineer placed mines in front of the vehicle pad and you have no way to avoid driving over them, hell yeah it sucks. And guess what, it's part of the game. Adapt to these possibilities, become a better player. Search the vehicle terminal with a dark flashlight before you pull, check the end of the vehicle pad before you pull, and for god's sake, practice shooting those little ******* out of the air who desperately bailed from their aircraft because that pisses them off even more than their vehicle getting destroyed. As an added benefit of shooting a smaller, falling target than an esf, your aim will improve. You have to look at the positive side instead of whining and crying and trying to get things changed. The devs have enough to do instead of listening to this crap. /rant off

If you didn't manage to kill them then you don't deserve it ...

Maybe my well placed secretive AP mines placement should ignore flak armour ? Cus well I deserve the kill ..
Or Maybe Engi's should not be able to repair while a vehicle is taking dmg ? Cus well people deserve the kill ..

I like sports as a kamikaze engineer, bailing is one of them.

Some of my sports are:

- Starting to charge and repair everything against hostile superior numbers when everything and everyone friendly starts to run
- Deffing bases solo or non organised and outnumbered with other random lone wolfers against hostiles/zerg squads/platoons
- Try to hopping the weirdest mad dance of death after bailing of whatever ground vehicle because got spanked by your vehicle

My dance will be even more hoghwash when I realize I have just some bettys with me instead of tank mines or C4 !

Guaranteed is I will try to attack you direct with my AV-turret @ closest range during unloading my stock pistols magazine into your vehicle face, during hopping and running around like mad and throwing 1 sticknade which misses you because of my bail-out spastics, I tell you !

Me at least, have a good laugh to die hard that way every time...

What if: you just didn't care?

When I kill tanks whether in a tank or on foot I don't track the bailed driver down, in fact I hate that petty ****. I kill plenty enough I don't need to chase after one poor bastard I've already bested.

Even spm is fairly meaningless.

Putting it the other way though, out of all the pilots who bail it can be too difficult to kill a significant portion because of factors that people are glossing over, such as being engaged by other aircraft or AA, as you said.

Or heck, as someone else pointed out, what if you ARE the AA, you can't possibly reach the bailer in 10s when they're hundreds of meters away.

That's a decision for the developers to make based on what they want for the game. Obviously, people disagree on this subject and you can't make everyone happy.

The forums are here for feedback though, and I think it's a perfectly reasonable stance that:

• There can certainly be a deeper, more graduated and risky approach to bailing. Right now, bailing is an instant "oh **** I'm losing, better press the "get out of jail free" button". There's always better odds of survival jumping out of a vehicle that's about to explode than staying in, even if you get hunted down now and then.
  • Keep in mind that in PS1 you couldn't bail when your vehicle was on fire. Plus, it had vehicle enter/exit animations that took time and meant you were vulnerable to attack . None of this teleporting to safety (enter/exit when shot).
• You shouldn't be able to bail from ESFs without an Ejection Seat, otherwise it diminishes the worth of that cert. Immediately continuing the battle on foot, so without downtime, after losing a fight would make for a good play style choice made at the load out screen - at the cost of an alternative cert.
• Transports like Valkyries and Galaxies should be easy to bail from - being good at moving people is their whole point. So passengers would be unaffected when dropping.
• SOE have entire medal, directive and kill tracking systems and it is probably in their best interests to keep these accurate and not annoy the hell out of a significant number of the players. This is why they made sure that suicide bailing from vehicles counted as a kill - we had a similar debate about kill tracking back then.

It could be changed such that you could still bail if you equipped an Ejection Seat (see below).

Plus, you could always use a Valkyrie for small scale transport - its intended role (it's also cheaper).

That's a fair route to take, but shouldn't the option of surviving to fight on the ground be the realm of the Ejection Seat - at the expense of an alternative cert? Do you want to be a dedicated pilot with the best certs, or make it more easily abandoned so you can swap to infantry and continue affecting the battle without downtime when your fighter is destroyed? That's the sort of decision people should be making at the load out screen.

As long as players can eject without ejection seat the cert is practically useless.

Not entirely true.

Planetside 1 had a system where you would be unable to bail when your plane was on fire. As others have mentioned (see below) It also had enter/exit animations which took time and meant you were vulnerable to fire.

Personally, I think if an ESF doesn't have an ejection seat then pilots shouldn't be able to bail mid-flight.

Yeah, between the 100% safe, instantaneous nature and the rendering delay it doesn't make for a fair or smooth experience.

PS1 had the ideal system, but SOE didn't want to do animations because of the performance cost if I remember correctly.

Still, they could get close to PS1:

• Enter / exit / seat swapping delays of a couple seconds for the time it would take to move, minus the animation.
• For ESFs specifically, replace the "no bailing while on fire" with "no bailing without an Ejection Seat".

Yeah, that's a closely related issue. In my opinion, all player actions (apart from the menu) should cancel redeploy.

Right now, shooting people interrupts the redeploy action as you are choosing combat instead. However, while redeploying you can:

• Heal and revive players
• Run away from targets because you've decided you're losing the fight

If you cannot genuinely be out of combat for 10 seconds then I don't consider your state out of combat at all. If you want to give up and surrender we have a /suicide command

Moin

Yea, just got a notice about forum guidelines violation. Forgot that this game is made for kids too and that you are not allowed to mask bad language by only replacing single letters with * so that the meaning is still readable. Apparently you are also not allowed to point out to other people that they are morons, as it is considered disrespectful to tell them what they are. *sigh* It's the world we live in. Sorry for the OT.

Well, this goes for all vehicles, air and ground alike. You usually don't get an infantrykill when lancing or locking a tank to death. Of course the drivers will bail. Do you want to lock those guys in their tank too?
But you name a real problem: That AA is able in the first place to kill aircrafts hundreds of meters away.

Yes, people disagree on these forums all the time and sometimes it leads to great discussions and insights. But some people just create problems where there aren't any.

I agree, the leave-vehicle system as a whole could be reworked. Add enter/exit animations for vehicles and make it so that the exit mechanic can be jammed if the vehicle is on fire. Also give every pilot a parachute by default. Prevent redeploying while parachuting for all I care. But before you do any of that either rework/remove lock-ons and Coyotes or nerf them to the ground. As long as there are still weapons in the game that allow for cheap kills I'll keep my method of cheating them of those cheap kills and make them actually have to work for the kill.
Right now, bailing is NOT using a "get out of jail free" button. It's the "leave vehicle" button and is perfectly logical. You're still a target after you've bailed and can still be killed.

To be honest, the Ejection Seat should've come by default. It's still useful if you want to use your aircraft as a quick transport for your Infiltrator. And Ejection Seat + Infiltrator makes the perfect bailing combo.

That's why vehicle kills are counted towards those directives.

Like I said, Ejection Seat shouldn't even be a cert, it should come by default.

I'd be fine with that, but my only issue is actually related to the Light Assault specifically. The Ejection seat cancels all forward momentum, which is a pretty huge limiter or a Light Assault, especially with drifters. It feels to me that relegating bailing solely to the Ejector seat would eliminate that utility from an already pretty lacking class. Though I understand the frustration with Bailing Light Assaults, I just don't know if we should entirely remove that ability.

Another thing they could do to help out the Ejector seat a lot is to make it an automatic rescue. It might make issues worse (I dunno, I don't fly that often, terrible pilot), but maybe if it automatically kicked out the pilot at destruction it would be used far more often and potentially encourage pilots to fight until the very end?

I have 1 suggestion to prevent this:
-only engineers can pilot a vehicle (so you have to buy ejection seat or put the right implant to bail out)
-OR light assault start the fall with empty jetpack if bailing from the pilot seat.
But it would be certainly less fun than the actual meta.

When we are gunning in our outfit and point out that an enemy has bailed out of a vehicle in the middle of nowhere, the response from the pilot is often "good, let them walk". The longer they survive on the ground and the more time they spend redeploying to get to that map screen (when exploding with their vehicle would have taken them directly there) is the more time our team doesn't have to deal with their aircraft.

If you don't get a kill notification, you've not done enough to deserve any kill.

Sorry.

I think that's the utility of the Ejector Seat as it is now - it'll save you even if you explode before pressing exit. But that makes it near-worthless as most people will just do so at the last second.


I'm not particularly fond of bailing from a fighter aircraft for the sake of C4 or attacking from above. I mean, depending on equipment, that is the role of the plane itself. It's got to the point where bailing in order to C4 a target is more effective than using A2G (if you're not equipped for A2G, tough luck, that's the downside). It's bad balance to mix roles like that.

If the plane is about to explode, then the Ejector Seat is doing its role of keeping you alive and players shouldn't be worried about trying to turn that into a further advantage. Of course, you have a choice of landing spots and could impact the fight once you're on the ground.

Actually, I'd go one step further and put players that Eject into drop pods (hey, it's the future, surely we'd upgrade a seat with a parachute?) specifically so they can't use C4 and jetpacks. Also, it would give more visual feedback and make more sense that you survive the fall.


Transporting yourself over a target in order to bail and attack from above should be entirely separated from fighter aircraft. Valkyries would perform that role perfectly (I wouldn't give them drop pods as you're literally jumping out, but probably would for Galaxies as you're being ejected).


As a side note, drifters could probably do with an initial burst in whichever direction you move to help with momentum issues.

Hitting redeploy reduces the spawn timers you'll see on the map. For example, if you die they might say 15s, but if you redeploy, wait 10s, then you'll see 5s on the map.

SOE changed this a while back so that /suicide wasn't faster than hitting redeploy.

Bailing is not a part of the game. It is really exploiting an unintended mechanic.

There is a reason there is an ejection seat that takes one of your slots.

Its not there so that everyone can play light assualt so that you kill 13 esf and get 4 kills.

If you want to bail from an aircraft you should have to have an ejection seat.

A jetpack would not be a reliable way to slow or stop a freefall.

Its plain cheese. This is no different than logging out to preserve your K/D.

They fixed logging mid fight because it was an unintended mechanic people were abusing to cheese other players.

Bailing with light assault is no different. Its exploiting.

Especially when you redeploy midair and never even hit the ground.

Who cares about EXP or vehicle kills or K/D anyway.

I dont want that guy dead because i care about my K/D or a trivial amount of XP. I want to kill him so that it says on his death screen that i killed him. So that it says on my screen that i killed him.

With ground vehicles its a bit different, but i would be ok with a 5 sec no damage rule before exiting a vehicle. Nothing dumber than getting a lib on fire and it lands and all the engis jump out and out-repair your damage.

If bailing is ok, why not just let us log out and not die like before, logging to pad K/D was absolutely no different than using jet packs to redeploy before you hit the ground.

If you can reliably hit enemies mid-air id love to see videos of it. Not to mention the only time you get the chance to do that is if you are in a duel and no one else is around. If its a large battle and there are other planes in the area there is no way you will kill a bail assault who is drifting and redeploying without getting yourself killed.

Can't even believe people defend this abuse of a broken mechanic.

Bailing is never a problem for me because I only use my reaver as an air ram.

Can anyone explain the tactical benefit of 'getting the kill' from a LA over the middle of nowhere?

If there isn't, then I don't want devs wasting time on it. I want only changes that effect alert wins and base captures. This is not one of those changes. I'm not playing a deathmatch shooter. This isn't team fortress.

Being able to jump out of a vehicle isn't an exploit and isn't unintended.

You're just mad because you didn't get the kill and are trying to justify your whining by calling it an exploit.

Ey, jokes on them. You have to make them redeploy and spend 10 seconds of their life hiding under a tree just to save their precious KD.