[Suggestion] Give Vanguard Shield a Downside

No, I want the VS to stop being such hypocrites.

I'm starting to think you don't.



DPS is an acronym for Damage Per Second.

Damage per second is the average rate of damage inflicted over time and is a term frequently used in video games to measure the raw firepower of an attack or weapon.

In terms of tank weaponry, this is calculated by the total damage divided by the time to complete one volley and reload cycle.

For the Prowler AP, this takes 3.5 seconds (2.5 reload and .5 refire delay per barrel) to accomplish 2500 damage at 714~ DPS

For the VAnguard AP, this takes 4 seconds (4 reload) to accomplish 2075 damage at 518~ DPS


I believe the number 714 is easily larger than 518 by 27%~.

"The Vanguard shield has no drawback."


Wrong.

The shield has Hit Points. That means that when you really need it most - when you're getting hammered from multiple sources - IT FAILS. You expect to get 7 seconds - you get 2 or 3, and then you die. And it's not like you get comped for unused shield time (like the VS do for their magburner).

It's SHORT. The only way it's useful is in a 1v1 at very close range, or when long range bombing from a hill-top. The former might give you a few seconds to get enough damage on A SINGLE enemy to kill THAT ONE ENEMY. The latter gives you just barely enough time to back over a hill from a firing position to a repair position.

It's hidden. You either have to have a count-down timer sitting on your desk you activate every time you activate the shield to know how long until you can use it again. Or you simply have to wait for it to be ready before you engage again. Anything else is rolling the dice and taking your chances.

Let me tell you how to driver your tank. You get the vanguard to pop shields and then you use you "get out of trouble free button" to zoom away. Count to ten, come back, and kill that tank. Rinse, repeat. It really is that easy.

With 1/2 AP tanks with no reload speed upgrade and shooting at the front armor:

Without the shield if the magrider fires first the vanguard has 2.75 seconds to hit the magrider or it dies, if the vanguard fires first the magrider must dodge 1 shot to win, so your best chance against a vanguard is an ambush followed by the magboost.

With the shield you can miss a shot if the magrider gets the jump, then is a tight fight, depends on when you activate the shield, with good timing the vanguard has the upper hand, but the shield must be activated after you fire so you can reload and fire while the shield is up, or you can activate it when your opponent finishes his reloading cycle, or if possible use it to block an incoming plasma projectile.

If the vanguard gets a jump and uses the shield, the magrider musts dodge 2 shots to win and miss none.

What I don't know is if the shield applies armor or absorbs raw damage, if it absorbs raw damage and extra damage can pass through the shield you can totally bring down the shield with 2 shots and apply damage to the vanguard, but I'm not sure about that.

It's raw damage. From the MOST RECENT NERF OF THE VANGUARD (April 16th):

• Vanguard Shield
  • Amount blocked by shield reduced from 3000 to 2000.
  • Duration of shield has been normalized across all ranks to be 6 seconds (when it is not destroyed via damage)

The shield absorbs 2000 points of damage and then shuts off.

You know, people are facing this the wrong way, why does every pro must have a con? and why are we analysing the abilities alone?

Prowler pros: fire faster, reload faster, faster shell, no cooldown
Prowler con: deploy time, stuck in one place those other cons are derivatives of the first.
Total 4 pros 2 con, 1 con becomes very blurry by sitting in a hill 500m away.

Magrider pros: you can boost twice, short cooldown, easy scape/maneuver, rough terrain superiority.
Con: you can only boost forward and that can be barely considered a con
total: 4 pros 1 con

Vanguard pros: extra HP, vanguard con: none total: 1 pro
And that if we follow the logic that long cooldown is not a con, because the magboost and the anchor mode can be used consistently during battles, but the shield cannot.

...
You didn't look, or you didn't understand the data. Seriously.

Look at the site again, this site:
http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/
Now select "MBT primary weapons" and click submit.
Look at the table. You'll see Avg V KPU. If you search for the explanation of these words, obviously you missed that, you'll see that it means that it means the average Vehicle kills per unique. The uniques are also mentioned beforehand, and are used to calculate the Avg V KPU. (your quote: "No where on the site that I saw did it say "Direct Vehicle Kills".")
Average kills per unique, in the case of the Vanguard AP cannon you'll find how many uniques used it, and what their average vehicle kills they got before being destroyed.
If you click on the name twice (so click on Avg V KPU twice) you'll see the top scorers, and the bottom scorers.
See what happens?
Supernova FPC: 5,33 kills per unique (because I've had to explain everything step by step so far, the Supernova FPC is the Magrider cannon)
P2-120 AP: 5,29 kills per unique, pretty close to the Magrider. (this is the Prowler weapon.
Then, finally: Titan-150 AP: 4,28 kills per unique, more than an entire vehicle less per unique than the top weapons of VS and TR (this is the Vanguard AP weapon, in case you missed it).
This means that your argument (here's the quote from you in case you already forgot: "It makes up for that in its ability to kill enemy armor.") is invalid.

Oh, and by the way, I just linked something that backs my stuff up. How much have you got that backs your stuff up? Can you show me a link, some data somewhere that backs your comments up? I do have something to back my stuff up, you still owe us some proof.
And by the way, You've been wrong on all accounts against me so far, I've provided neat and clear proof (which I had to spoonfeed you for some reason) and you have only degraded me and given not a single argument besides "it's a godshield and you are wrong, I have nothing to back it up but I demand proof from you which I'll subsequently ignore and I got nothing to back up my comments".

Does extra damage pass through the shield? I.e: 1865*2-2000= 1730 damage, what happens to that damage, does it vanish, giving the shield an unofficial extra absorption or does it reach the tank?

Oh I get what you were talking about. I'm relatively certain that it "toggles on / toggles off". When it's on, it is blocking all incoming damage so if a shot surpasses the shields HP, the shield still absorbs that additional damage from that shot. Damage is not taken until the next shot comes in.

I can't be 100% sure about that because when I'm taking so much damage, it generally coming in so fast that I can't tell if the pain comes from the "turn off" shot or the next shot.

You know after all the whining and boohoo'ing NC does, I think it's about time to start pointing out all their ******** and crying about it as well. What goes around.

Your original statement was still flawed because you are assuming accuracy stats.

And with armor ratings involved, the Prowler retains a higher DPS by 17% to the front and 15% to the side, if I recall correctly.

That's funny, we didn't start the thread. We get a nerf call, should we just sit back and let it happen? Or we can come up with constructive criticism... which is whined at by non-NC members. Hey, we aren't necessarily the one's whining, it could actually be you...

Well, maybe not exactly you, but you get the point. "whining" and crying goes both ways. Just because we are the one's defending our stuff doesn't mean we are crying, someone else started about it and we defend ourselves.

Please check this site:
http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthlystats/
Check the statistics of the Vanguard. What do you see?
It's underperforming compared to the Magrider and Prowler. Why? Why is the Magrider the best tank killer, even though it's got the worst DPS, the worst muzzle velocity and less armor than the Vangaurd?
It's because there is more than DPS to take into account. There's reload speeds, there's AI capabilities, there's inherent abilities in the tanks. Such as Magriders floating abilities, Prowlers speed, acceleration, double barrels with highest DPS, Vanguards with higher armor rating and high damage per shot and medium DPS, the amount of people who draw the same tank together to bumrush some other tank. The cover allies can offer etc.

Yeah as it turns out I was looking at the wrong graph. My bad. BUT! That still does not change the fact you guys do not need that god shield. All it says is that the Vanguards need to have their faction trait buffed and your shots need to be given a bit more damage. THAT is where the problem lies for your kill ratio being poor. The shield still needs to be made a Resist Shield.

You are complaining about a shield that only makes the Vanguard able to be competitive. Have you looked at the stats? The Vanguard is outclassed in most things in kills and such by the other MBT.
The shield itself might not have a direct downside, but that does not mean it should be removed. Use your head -.-.

In this case it's damage per shot. Thought you'd figure that out.

Go ahead and list the advantages of the vanguard. This ought to be good.

You're right situational awareness is overrated.

And as usual, I am here to save the day and tell bad tankers that top-speed barely makes any difference any any fight. Turning speed, acceleration, accuracy on the move and the ability to go sidewards along with going forward/backward however, helps a ton.

Sorry, did I say somewhere that I am not happy with it? I am saying its the worst performing vehicle when stock, compared to all 3 MBT's. That is why its ES ability is better, to make up for a worse tank. (you know, its the reason that vanguards still have the worst score/hour even with the IWIN shield)

Why are you even here? If you cant manage to dodge a Dumbfire AV rocket in a mag at 200m then im pretty sure FPS aint your type of game.

DPS always stands for damage/second. You cant just change the meaning of it because its convienent. (and not really relevant either, when one of the MBT's shoots twice as fast as the others.)

As long as magriders and prowlers can climb up to the hills where vanguards can't get to there's no reason to nerf the shield even more. Most of the people here arguing something is op are br 11-60 noobs

I've got Titan-150mm-AP auraxiumed and I'm going to do the same with HEAT, still I get more tank kills with AV MAX than Vanguard