[Suggestion] Bailing pilots and how to fix it.

That's what it really comes down to, doesn't it? "I want mine, but I don't want him to have his."

ESF(vehicle) kills used to be worth quite a bit less than they are now. They understood that was a bit weird to require both the vehicle and the driver/pilot kill for the full amount. So they gave an increase in points to the vehicle kill. That's all that is needed. The only change I would change, is if someone racks up points, the minimal, high, and extreme threat bonuses for killing them apply to the vehicle kill instead. That is, if it isn't already.

But that wouldn't be enough for people like the OP. They want the kill, they don't want the bailer to get it. How much you all would like to bet if RadarX came in here and said, "there is no plans to change this at this time." that some of these players would throw a tantrum and even state they are going to start ramming people to ensure they get the kill.

Course that could be why him and any other DB employee is avoiding this like the plague. Anything they say would cause a ruckus.

It just gets you down safely if you eject, otherwise you die.

OP sounds like such a whining crybaby I'm surprised he doesn't have a Vanu avatar.

You were NOT vulnerable to anything while in the enter and exit annimation, you were unkillable at this time, even if the vehicle detonated while you were exiting (infact you'd try to time your exit for this exact moment).

I feel i should point out that the 'exit vehicle' button ONLY worked when your vehicle was stationary, for exiting when moving the 'bail' rules i mentioned in my previous post applied, this was the case for ALL vehicles.

You were however vulnerable during the 'bail comet' sequence.

I believe this was simply a tech limitation due to the animations rather than a balance feature, i could be wrong tho.

I disagree on the enter/exit, i think the instant teleport is rather obnoxious, opinions differ i suppose. Seeing a galaxy load up in PS1 was awesome, everyone scrabbling to a different door, watching hatches open and shut as players hop in was not only great fun, it acted as a time delay meaning the 'better' your outfit was at loading up the less delay youd suffer, it actualy helped with teamwork in this instance.

To be honest you just described a good reason to have eject seat equipped - ability to jump out just above ground or instantly when landed to get last second repairs. Eject wouldnt have to 'check' whether you were landed or not, so no lag.

While i do the above mentioned 'last second reps' regularly on all vehicles, i actualy dont like the ability and dont think it fits for an MMO, fast paced small scale solo shooter sure, large team based MMO id rather have them rely on sundies / other players for instant repairs when in danger, thats what we did in PS1. The alternative in this idea would be to cert the appropriate item whilst giving up something else.

You say 'this is a game' but why does a game always have to be fast paced twitch reponse time, why cant it have elements that require more thought in advance than reaction time afterwards, vehicle taking damage? fall back sooner than you would today to avoid the death by animation / lag (they really need to reduce lag tho).

Thats just my thoughts, like i said, this game as it is now is a fast paced twitch shooter, so i dont think it has room for any of that.

yeaaah... different opinions for sure because that sounds like a terrible, TERRIBLE, mechanic for a game


THAT would be obnoxious as all hell.... for me anyways.

Im glad you said that at the end.

Something being obnoxious is always subjective.

I don't always spell it out, but it's always implied... whether the speaker intended it or not, it's still implied.

Even if something was universally found to be obnoxious by every man woman and child on earth, it'd STILL be subjective.

Vehicle entering/exiting animations would probably take care of it. At least make it take longer.

It is an exploit. It was not intended for people to bail out with drifter jets and redeploy before they hit the ground to avoid a death.

We know this because they have taken action in the past to prevent people from doing just that.

We know this because they went to the trouble of making an ejection seat.

Bailing to redeploy is no different in any way from logging out to preserve K/D or suiciding to deny kills.

It is exactly the same.

Now whether they have the resources or desire to fix the exploit is certainly debatable.

Just because they arent exploiting a BUG doesnt mean its not an exploit. If you are bailing to deny kills, to redeploy before hitting the ground in a way that is not intended it is exploiting.

To utilize, especially for profit, and to use selfishly for one's own ends, are the definitions of the word that apply here.

to take advantage of (a person, situation, etc), esp unethically or unjustly for one's own end.
An even better definition for this situation.

You are asserting that the devs didn't expect this because they added the ejection seat? Maybe they added it so people wouldn't have to play as an LA to have a way to eject? And infiltrators can use ejection seat and redeploy while they are cloaked. DID YOU HEAR THAT? A class without a jetpack can do the same exact KDR padding by using the ejection seat. In fact, they would be even better at it, since they would basically be invisible while the redeploy timer ticks down.

I'm sure they figured out that people would be able to use an LA to eject out of an ESF without the ejection seat. Quite frankly, it's absurd to suggest that they didn't think of it, given how obvious it is.

Sure keep telling yourself that they intended for people to bail out without an ejection seat and then drift around nearly impossible to hit and redeploy mid-air to deny kills.

Which is why they fixed it so that people couldn't log out to deny kills and preserve K/D andso that people couldn't suicide to deny kills.

This is no different than logging out to pad K/D.

Its all about stat padding and denying kills, neither of which is in the spirit of the game.

There is a precedent.

As i already said, its clearly an exploit, its clearly for stat padding and not to 'continue the fight' as some claim.

Unless you have some reason why bailing and using drifters to stay afloat while you redeploy is somehow different than logging out in its end result. That result being your stats are padded and you have denied a kill. Then you really have no argument.

Someone using the ejection seat would have to make a sacrifice. They would be unable to run fire suppression while running ejection seat. They wouldn't be able to run flares either. So good luck padding stats when you have to make a choice like that.

go fk yourself

Are you serious? I could stat pad all day if I played an infiltrator with an ejection seat. The only times I would die would be from crashing or sneaky dalton libs. If I were to bail and cloak, death would be very rare. Not having fire suppression(I never use flares) would only mean I'm getting less kills with each ESF before having to bail, but this would only be an inconvenience. I'd be back in the air in 30 seconds, and I can make one ESF last for more than enough time to regenerate those 350 nanites.

Infiltrator+ejection seat is the ultimate KDR padding setup.

I fly as Engineer just to force myself to go down with the aircraft. When I first started flying I always flew as LA, but as I got better I just saw way more benefit of being able to repair on the fly as opposed to bailing in the middle of nowhere.

You would get shot down every single time vs a comparable pilot who was running fire suppression vs ejection seat to stat pad. Thats the difference. Currently you can have your fire suppression and be able to bail. Ejection seat is intended to force you to choose to stat pad over winning.

Currently I have these main options(note, there may be more that I haven't considered):

• No ejection at all. Play engineer to repair and reap the benefits of both fire suppression and stealth. Obviously no way stat pad, unless I play at a really low altitude and use a safe landing implant

• LA ejection. Play LA, thus sacrificing the ability to repair and being forced to use auto repair instead of stealth. Is more susceptibleto lock-on damage and coyotes, as well much harder to get the drop on people and get around without being targeted because of the minimap signature. Stat padding is possible, but only if the pilot bails in a situation where the enemy isn't able to focus on killing them before they redeploy.

• Ejection seat + infiltrator. Play a stalker infiltrator and use ejection seat. Fire suppression is sacrificed, meaning I have less health, and auto repair is also required, so no stealth immunity to coyotes and all the other good stuff mentioned before. Having less health means I will be at a disadvantage in pretty much all engagements, but the odds of being killed, short of being rammed or daltoned, are almost zero. Best stat padding potential since I practically cannot be killed, and if I am cautious and pick my battles wisely, I can still farm loads of kills on lesser or distracted players.

As stat padding potential increases, the effectiveness of the loadout decreases. The LA ejection is nowhere near as effective as inf + ejection seat for stat padding. Ejecting and living through it is unreliable, but is possible in the right situations. It's trading stealth for a chance to live through a fight. It's popular because it allows for fair 1v1 nosegun duels without trading anything, but that all goes out the window when the opponent has coyotes or lock-ons.

In the end it just depends on what you value most. Is that 1 in 10 chance(just making up a number that sounds ballpark) to bail and live worth the extra lock-ons you will eat? Is it worth it to go even further and also sacrifice 750 health to basically be unkillable? Do you just not care about your stats and want to be running the most useful setup possible?

If I come across a better equipped pilot (usually running an Anti-ground loadout vs an AA loadout). I'll either bug out, or ram them if I can't get away.

Ejection Seat just turns an ESF into an aerial flash. No one is going to choose it over anything else for dogfighting reasons, even if bailing was removed. Its pointless even to bring up the ejection seat.

I tend to agree that light assault in aircraft makes the ejection system redundant and worth less than other systems. Is bailing as la an exploit? Not really for it to be an exploit it needs to be an unintended overlooked effect of the system. Lets face it la and aircav have been in game together a while and intended to work together. But logoff to escape death was an exploit.

If the result is to make the choice of ejection seat worthwhile then there are several things that can be done.
Animation on exit, entrance to vehicles. A timed exit whilst in air means you watch as you physically unlatch the cockpot to bail. Then bailing costs a second or two. An ejection seat would be instant.

fire suppression changes, I would argue its currently on the too good an option choice. It doesnt just put out fire it repairs. Although the version that just put out fires was arguably not worth the investment.

If the point is bailing as la is a second life then is it too good an option and would the game be improved without it? In which case options such as yout jetpack doesnt fit in the cockpit with you. (seriously jetpack plus chair?) anyway the possible solution here is a flight/driver suit that can be worn to pilot or drive any vehicle. The argument being ha is too bulky la has a jetpack etc...