That is your opinion. I have yet to see one of these tests completed with slug ammunition. I don't think the NC want to show how effective slugs really are, because it would blow the 'hacsaws aren't OP because they have no range' argument out of the water. Heck, I rolled an NC just to use Hacksaws with slugs, I KNOW how utterly devastating they are to anything under 20m, and they will beat other maxes at range no problem. Killing multiple targets is rare and you don't want to be taking on more than 2 enemies at a time anyway, in any max suit. Slug ammo is not a waste, it turns an extremely effective CQB weapon into an extremely effective all-around OP weapon.
i think its great you took the time to do this , its been done before , so it really wasnt anything new but i personally love how its always my nc max isnt op compared to the dual cyler ect... no one ever says hey lets put it up against the vs max , bc then the OP would definatly show and you couldnt scream its balanced
Can you please post some video of you owning with slugged Hacksaws? I slug my Scatters and I'm quite open as to why I do it - it significantly increases the stopping power at range (but accuracy is hit and miss) at the expense of decreasing my close quarter damage. I already have one slugged Hacksaw but felt no real benefit so I never equip it and didn't bother certing the other, if two work well then I'll re-evaluate my AI kit. Only problem I forsee is running out of ammo real fast.
duel hacksaws work well in CQB too, you just have to actually be accurate. Its 3 hit kill rather than 1 / 2hit kill so yes it reduces stopping power in CQB (but not by much), however it is very effective at range (it maintains its 3hit kill up to 30m). You do run out of ammo and need to reload fairly fast so I alternate between left and right (rarely fire both at once) so I can be almost continuously firing. People die so fast to a single hacksaw with slugs that most of the time it is safe to fire only 1 weapon at a time, I only use both at the same time on maxes which also drop very fast at anything under 20m. I was just on point A of zurvan amp not 10 minutes ago, and got a 82 - 2 kills / death with hacksaw slugs. This is a fairly common score when using the hacksaws.
Unless I'm reading the stats wrong, it would appear that Dual Cosmos would be even more effective than the Dual Cycler. "Refire time" isn't quite clear to me how it works out in the long run. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Amnj8jnZLDIOdEx6azNNdVozRmxLVkI2WnZmS2NqV1E&output=html Agreed that it would be interesting to see toe to toe the way the Cycler was demo'ed. Would be quite embarrassing for those claiming the VS MAX was weak when it was even better at killing an NC MAX at range than the TR MAX. Be careful what you wish for..
Hehe, point taken. Mind you the numbers used were only for reference, as I did attempt to finetune the amount after all the equations. At least give me credit for not being stubborn about my initial standpoint The way I see it, TR MAX should be about area denial, NC MAX about breaking through barriers, and VS MAX about harassment. Once we see empire specific abilities, the TR and VS MAX units should be even more suitable for that - more so if the VS got it's Quasar reworked to have a Lasher effect. At the moment I think the regularity of which the NC MAX finds itself in it's ideal situation, is because it already has an ability that more easily allows it to perform its role, without much of a penalty (no deacceleration needed to fire) - as I've stated earlier.
Here is another one. Hacksaws with extended mags at 35m against infantry Target at 85% health at the end.
Since you never seemed to alter your standpoint until the cold hard video stared you in the face.. what can I say? The way I see it, TR MAX should be about area denial, NC MAX about breaking through barriers, and VS MAX about harassment. Once we see empire specific abilities, the TR and VS MAX units should be even more suitable for that - more so if the VS got it's Quasar reworked to have a Lasher effect. At the moment I think the regularity of which the NC MAX finds itself in it's ideal situation, is because it already has an ability that more easily allows it to perform its role, without much of a penalty (no deacceleration needed to fire) - as I've stated earlier.[/quote] ..and yet I choose to ignore this role and equip slugs because the role that the Hacksaw MAX fulfills is exceptionally limited outside of a Bio Lab. Bio Labs make up 5% of the cappable points, people!
Thankyou. Squadmates had better things to do than have me shoot at them for no tangible reason - and quite frankly, I couldn't be bothered trying to convince people that didn't want to be convinced. Hacksaws = limited range and limited versatility. Easily countered if you use tactics.
so you beeing able to kill at any range is OK, but its not OK for the NC max to kill anything at all? you have a strange understanding of "even" my friend.
This is the slug ammunition test people were asking for. IT's noticiable that the slug isn't as good as people falsly claim, when they say MAX units can "easily" snipe people @ 30m range. Also see that at the 15m test, the VS MAX was left with only two HP bars, so we can consider that it gives a 50% increment in range, altough I wouldn't count on them to actually use in fights. As I said, I'll be doing an NC MAX vs. VS MAX (Quasar) video again, in order to see stuff...
That's not a useful question. The real question is: why doesn't the NC MAX need support to kill another MAX? Instead of going heavy assault, people on NC will just run more MAXes instead, making the problem worse. There's no need for heavy assault at all.
Can't tell if trolling or stupid. My point was, clearly, that if it takes over five seconds to kill something then it won't be killed at all and that the NC MAX can easily kill by charging. Read the rest of the post and try again.
It's not a misconception because the NC MAX will use cover during his reload time and win easily or force retreat. The TR MAX also loses if they're both missing 1/4th health before the encounter. It also kills infantry faster at this range and the pellets that aren't hitting may hit additional people.
But people on NC don't run more MAX. I'm normally in a platoon of ~50 per night on average. I'm the only AI MAX. It's only when air becomes bothersome that more people pull out Burster MAX. The majority of our platoon is HA and Engis (who are normally in vehicles and rarely feed me ammo - don't get me started..!) Well, geez - and if the NC MAX has no cover.. but but but. It's effective killing range against another MAX is less than 10m and against infantry it can't kill beyond 30. Prior to this video, we had all sorts of claims that MAX were being insta-gibbed beyond 30 and infantry at 50. I showed how bad pellet spread was at 50, nobody cared. Someone takes time out to video how overestimated Hacksaws were against other MAX, we get all sorts of excuses and still the tears roll. The video shows exactly why the Hacksaw is my least used MAX weapon and why I have slugs on my Scatters. I don't find it particularly fun or interesting standing by a door, waiting for someone to walk in. If you know there's an NC MAX behind that door - plenty of other ways to dig him out!
What's your point? I often see zero MAXes on both TR and VS, outside of bursters. In the biolabs I see 2-3x more NC MAXes than TR or VS.
A counter to yours about NC pulling MAX instead of HA's. They don't. You don't get a Hacksaw as part of standard kit - you have to cert or pay for them. Then you have to throw another 2000 certs at them to make them effective. If I could refund the cost and the certs of them, I would. Here we have people clamoring for them and/or asking for them to be nerfed when they have even more devastating weapons of their own.
