That would be an idea. Though the explosions around the orb should be excessive in order to saturate a whole defense effort with 1 single MAX at 30 meters. I think the piercing through idea would be much better. Make it like, 1st person hit = 100%, 2nd person hit = 66% damage, 3rd Person hit = 33% damage. One single MAX would be able to saturate firepower in his line of sight, while the TR should have a much lower damage (143 to 67) but have the ROF and Magazine bullets/total bullets tripled, so they can saturate a LARGE are with LOTS OF BULLETS. Imagine those miniguns really roaring xD
Wow, the VS MAX fared even better than the TR at 10+ meters, and I hear far more "buff VS MAX" complaints vs TR.
WOW , anyone can see the REALITY, NOT some shady"spredsheets" and other mathematical/theoretical BS. NICE VIDEOS ALL pls keep making more samekind of videos comparing controversial issues.. so we can all see what REALLY happens
You've never seen them charge away because they're already dead. It takes 1-2 seconds to charge in and kill. That's not enough time to react, unless the charge is coming from an absurd range.
The problem is not the spreadsheets but failure to interpret them properly; likewise, people aren't interpreting this video properly. Data is useless if you don't know how to analyze it. In fact, he could have avoided making a second video if he had simply looked at the spreadsheets and noted that the guns are nearly the same...
Would be nice to know how many headshots there are from both sides too. The darkness of the second video didn't help much, but another good vid, none the less.
The Problem is that its quite hard to get a count of headshots in this test situation, with weapons are very innacurate at distance as well for headshots. What we do know is that 1.5x damage for shotguns to headshots, while the rest is 2x.
So the facts we can take from this video are that with extended mags a NC AI max pwns any other non vehicle unit in the game at a range of 10 meters or less. The upper threshold of their ttk is roughly 2.2 seconds(or however long it is to empty their clip as shotguns vary.) At 15 meters the NC max can no longer kill targets in one clip anymore and must reload. The reload with an extended clip takes longer than it did for the MAX to actually shoot it's entire clip. During this time he must stand completely still and can be killed by nearly any infantry gun in the game. Now that is what we like to call balance.
The problem is simple, you didnt give the NC max the chance to move while we were spending 20 seconds shooting at him. HAD you allowed him to crawl toward us, he would of won at any range (not to mention if he just used the rush ability). Im fine with not nerfing that thing, though, but ONLY if everyone gets such a weapon. If not, the cyclers must be buffed to kill people in mere seconds at ranges beyond 10m OR you can just nerf the damn hacksaw already. Take your choice.
Well, your options are either jump around like a n00b to avoid getting headshotted while you reload, which commits you as movement is penalized after jumping or turn 180 and use the charge ability to retreat (if it's off cooldown).
very nice videos! it's great to see some proper data on this. I've never felt that NC maxes are that nerfworthy, actually. I play VS and the options we have are lackluster, at best. As the vids show, the accuracy at ranges of 20+ is laughable. I.e., a heavy has a good shot at killing the vs max because he just doesnt hit very well. anyway, i think the main reason why the NC max outclasses the others by so much is because of how easy it is to control the engagement in biolabs, or how various terrain/base layouts allow for creating choke-points. In biolabs, the rooms adjacent to the teleport exits are usually filled with nc maxes (3-4 will get the job done), which are supported by medics and engineers. Any reload time is spent in cover/being healed by engies, and that makes it incredibly hard for any offense to push through because the attackers are always in the optimal hacksaw range. If the NC can secure choke-points, they have an incredible advantage. Currently neither TR or VS have any way to compete with this. Adding weapons that could work as chokepoint breakers would be an interesting option, but it might not be entirely balanced. For VS, dual lashers with the old beam effect would make an awesome AI/AOE max weapon (sigh, one can dream). If bases ever become more defensible (tunnels etc), this will be an issue that has to be addressed.
My comment could not have been more objective and contributed information to the conversation. Either get over yourself or stop trolling. He has no health because he's dead. He died before you did and his bullets were still in the air.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTTTTTT What you consider may not be so simple. Theres some technical difficultys as why i cant create a NC, one involving me having to wait for account wide SC unlocks -_-
One Mercy only has a ROF of 400 or so. The bullet damage is the same as carbines that have a ROF of 750-850. Parity between factions dictates that a single Mercy should have a ROF of atleast 700. Then we will have mutually assured destruction.
The problem seems to be that other maxes are not doing a whole lot of damage past 25 meters. No one is complaining when a regular infantry shotgun pwns them upclose, because other weaponry is superior past 15 meters.. Obviously not easy to balance because if they're too effective at distance then NC will complain.
This Also if we're supposed to be the LMG/carbine MAXes, then we should have iron sight or something similar. If you take a carbine, **** it's rate of fire and then say 'btw, no laser dot and no ironsight for you' then obviously the completely unnerfed shotgun is going to win everyday of the week, because that's what NC get, a completely unnerfed, fully functional shotgun. You get to cert slugs, yet we don't get neither foregrip or laserdot.
Exactly. If I see an NC Max charging at me I have to stop firing, turn around, aim for the door, then hit charge. I can't just start charging because that means I will charge INTO the NC Max. I have to aim for the door because if hit the wall my charge ends abruptly (sometimes with me taking damage) and the NC Max gets to close. I have to have a clear line of escape before I press the charge key, and by the time I've seen the NC Max charging, turned, found my escape, and hit the charge button I'm already dead. Better I should aim at his head and drop him by 25% health or so than die by getting shot in the back. I don't know about the VS Max, but TR Max used to have certable LaserDots in Beta. That kind of actual improvement would be nice. As you said, a NC Max gets 2x Full Fledged Shotguns while the TR and VS get gimpped, slower firing, unsighted, unupgradeable LMGs. There's no parity there.
Are you often alone when you MAX? You could have fired at him while he charged you and if you had 2 other infantry anywhere near you, they would have finished him off.. hopefully before he killed you, but you seem to believe the NC MAX is virtually untouchable so sacrificing yourself to destroy him isn't that much of a trade-off, is it?
