Why does not TR have 167 dmg carbine?

No you don't get it, you're crying becuase VS/NC get high RoF stuff, and then mentioning "no bullet drop". Not only are the high RoF carbines ****** anyway, but no bullet drop is useless.

Imagine not even having an infantry weapon faction trait at all.

And you are where the VS are. So go on crying about how you're high RoF is not exclusive, and I guess i could say every TR/NC gun has access to our faction trait, since bullet drop does not make a ******* difference. Still it's not like we get 40 rounds in our clips and a larger ammo pool, which is of course still another faction trait you got.

You have the Jaguar, that is the only carbine you will ever need.

Hahahaha, YES! I got someone mad. I don't care how angry you are, forum warrior. I'll keep saying that I'm not complaining about this being a gamebreaking stuff or anything, I'm complaining that it shouldn't happen. Maybe just like bullet drop. What I mean is: what if they make, for example, high RoF + ammo, or no bullet drop + accuracy something really exclusive? If it was an extreme version of this (already quoted a thousand times in these forums): http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=43432 Then, that would be something really nice. The thing is you already have an accurate weapon, but I feel like VS has similar recoil to TR, and it (VS weapons) shouldn't shake that much when you're firing. It should be smoother. Not that it's bad at the moment, it actually feels easy to use it (that's why I did the "says the [...]" joke).
I'm gonna repeat it again if you didn't understand: I'm not complaining, because no weapon is OP here. Everything is pretty much balanced, I'm just talking about reworking every single weapon so both factions would be happy. But you still think TR is easy mode and then say that the others are complaining. lol Funny guy. Take your pills and calm down.

Sounds fair to me. I play NC mostly and the GD 7F is basically a TR weapon, I don't see why they can't have a 167 carbine.

There is part of what your saying here that might actually explain your problems, so while i won't say your 'just bad' (i have no clue how good/bad you are) maybe some small tips can help?

This part is where i think your biggest mistake/flaw in thinking and practice lies:

About A: "hipfire accuracy is really good"

True. But that does not mean its not worth ADSing.
This is extremely crucial and you must really understand and get the feel for this before you can work on solving your problems.
GOOD HIPFIRE does not mean you SHOULD NOT ADS.

This is such a basic, fundamental mistake you see people make over and over in all videos they put out.

Use (and think) of good hipfire as a advantage when you are caught of guard. An advantage in super-tense, super-chaotic situations (aka. in the middle of the meat-grinder). An advantage when you stumble upon someone at shorter ranges and just HAVE to get the first shoot off. This is what hipfire is good for.

Do not use hipfire as a standard method for shooting/killing people. Even with adv. laser it does not work out good and you will get chewed up by decent opposition. At 10/15/20m and out you should never hipfire as a 'standard method', NO MATTER how good your hipfire-value is. This is not just opinion, its part of the core game-mechanics and how stuff like recoil/bloom works.


About B: "ADS accuracy is pretty bad"

Untrue. Sorry, but this is simply not truth. Assuming forgrip the ADS-accuracy is not 'pretty bad' on any (exempt maybe GD-7F) carbine in the game. Some are better than others, sure. Some are suited for short/medium range, and some more for medium/longer ranges, but exempt the GD-7F they all stand up decent in this regard. Every one of them. Practice, practice, practice.

In regard to the Jaguar specifically : controll the <-> horizontal recoil by equipping forgrip and shortbursting. You should not have problems at shorter and medium ranges with this.

Also:

Just because the Jaguar CAN equip the adv. lasersight, that does not mean you automatically SHOULD equip it. In fact, of all the carbines in the game. Of each and every one, the jaguar is in the lucky position of having the least NEED for a laser in the first place.

* Good and decent rof/damage/controllability allround.
* 1 of only 2 carbines with baseline 1.75 moving hip-fire (-> less need for laser)
* 1 of only 2 carbines with 25% moving penalty (lower moving penalty -> considerably less NEED to hipfire. Yes, the lower your movement penalty get - the fewer situations arise where you HAVE TO hipfire)

=> Only carbine in game that combine all 3 of these aspects. This is what makes it so great allrounder.

Even though it CAN equip the laser, there literally is no carbine existing in the game, that NEEDS IT less.
Dont get me wrong, im not saying the laser is TERRIBAD option either (sometimes its smart to use it), but its certanly is not needed for allround play.

And basically, adopting the SMG-style of 'always hipfire, never ads' DOES NOT WORK on any other type of guns besides the SMGs. This barely even work for smgs in the first place, but there are other reasons for that.

Hope it helps?

I dont mean to join the flame but I'd like to point out that one of VS actual traits in game is having usually the best ADS accuracy while moving, which is a very useful trait. The difference isnt huge but still helps. And there are other things (including just mentioned):

• good moving ADS accuracy
• short reload times
• small vertical recoil
• mid-tier horizontal recoil VS (NC has the best, TR the worst)
• mid-tier bloom per shot (NC has the worst, TR the best)

There are ofc exceptions with certain weapons but this is what most VS weapons have in the weapon stat sheets.

These stats arent usually thrown in ppls face like "hey TR has more dakka, NC has more hurty boolets" but especially the first three matter too.

In all honesty I think the answer to this is likely the same as the answer to all the other MAX/tank/ESF issues: make everything NS/the same.

Faction specific stuff just causes endless balance issues.

The other slightly less extreme option would be to add more NS stuff to cover all bases.

I'm not mad just emphasising.

Not even you, at this point, know what you're trying to say. You just keep parroting, but that's not what I'm saying, with no clear statements being made anyway. Suffice to say, you thought BD was important, nuff said.

Like the whole point of this thread, why doesn't TR have 167 carbine?

It's totally irrelvant when TR already has the best carbines. Other then tried to say we don't even have highest RoF, and since the NC/VS get access to high RoF we should get access to 167.

All of this ****e, was made be people who are either noobs, who shouldn't be posting like they know whats going on, or TR only players fundamentally ignorant of the overall balance. The TR has the best default carbine, FACT, it also has the best carbine in the Jag, and the second best in the Lynx, due to their 0.75 MS ADS and extra bullets, FACT.

I mean if they made the AMC to a 167 it'd be like the pulsar and I bet all the TR would moan that it wasn't as good as the Merc's base stats. I would put money on it! Likewise RoF is all well and good, but if you've used the 845's you'd know they are trash past point blank.

The smaller CoF moving is inferior to the 0.75 MS ADS, I've tested it both ways which allows you to choose fights much easier and with reset recoil from having a little duck. To top off how bad this also is, it is only applied to the default gun, SF and burst, not all of our guns. Like say 40 bullets in a clip.

Vertical recoil is easily dealt with, and even the NC's "high" vertical recoil isn't really even that high, and where it approaches being high, they have access to a compensator to negate that.

Short reloads aren't even our thing, it's just that TR have long reloads for having large mags. For example the Merc has a short reload, which it really shouldn't if short reloads were going to be a VS thing.

Our horizontal recoil could stand to be reduced a bit to actually provide a tangible accuracy difference for our guns. Instead of us just having a pretty weak middle ground vs higher RoF/clips, or higher damage/damage per clip + stationary accuracy.

ADS speed modifier sure is better but there are few guns for each empire with that, VS guns have usually better at least by 0.05 moving ADS accuracy across the board. It aint a game changer but it is a slight advantage.

I agree vertical recoil is easiest to deal with. But the less you have to focus on vertical recoil the more you can focus on horizontal tracking of your enemy - ADAD and horizontal recoil.

True, when looking at it from the reload time/shots POV, TR has it good too and merc (awesome stock weapon) is kind of a exception. But again, across the board the VS weapons usually sit in the upper part of weapon stat tables when sorted by reload time. (I gotta get to proper number crunching and make average values per empire for weapon categories ) TR has longer downtime when reloading but theoretically they should do it less because of larger mags but in games that dont keep track of state of each mag, reloading all the freaking time even after firing 3shot burst is a common habit. People reload like crazy and the lesser the time the better. It is an advantage IMO.

Horizontal recoil.. well it could be brought to NC levels and NC buffed

VS mobility trait is already effective with more weapons with tighter COF while moving+ADS.

so half our trait is good enough eh. TR have the other half our trait, and they feel they can complain about us using their trait. So we trade, can't have your cake and eat it too.

I say, delete GD-7F, Carnage and GR-22, EM-1, TMG-50, Emperor, SABR-14 and all will be happy. At least I know, I will.

To be accurate, you get generally better ADS cof + move on every weapons and get 0.75 ads move mult LMGs.
Also betters recoils and no drop (wich is a bit useless on most of weapons i agree)

About 0.75 ads move mult, look at my first post:
NC get it on AR, TR on carabines and VS on LMGs, each faction it's random "bonus" but maybe you prefer to see 0.75 removed from SVA-88 or/and orion to get it on your serpent or/and VX6-7??

Finally, NC trait is 200 damages,167/600 weapons and more vertical recoil.
TR trait is 10 more ammos on 143 AR/Carabines but more horizontal recoil.
VS trait is accuracy while moving, better recoils, no drop (wich is a bit worthless but slugs and SASR) and getting weapons close to TR/NC arsenal (technological industrial espionage maybe?).

That's not how faction bonuses work, would you like the TR to only have large mags on carbines and then have smaller mags than VS for their assault rifles? TR get our faction trait of mobility on guns designed for mobility, I 100% agree that they should give the TR their highest ROF advantage back, that however comes at a cost.

I like how people tote on about how the VS weapons have "Better accuracy." when the innate cone of fire for the average weapon (ie. all carbines) is 3x worse then the NC's.*

The true VS trait is the absolute mule kick first shot multiplier; followed by some steady fire. When the CoF is already so large; your corrected fire will already be out of control for long ranges. The true VS trait at this point; is quick reload. On average; they have superior reload times. This less down time (more consistent dakka) can be logically derived from our empire specific heavy weapon, which is also modeled for: suppression fire. If you are VS; keep the bullet streams flowing.

*: Standing ADS COF: NC: .03 VS: .1

You're always changing the way of this conversation and ignoring the points I made, then saying "Not even you, at this point, know what you're trying to say". Yeah, keep trying. You're not special here, I keep thinking to myself if the level 98/99 (PS2 Players says 99 and PSU says 98, whatever) is what makes you think that you're so cool and better than anyone to say that "if you think this way, then you're a TR noob". You probably didn't even read my first post here at this thread, and acted like a girl when someone jokes on Justin Bieber. I keep repeating stuff like "what I'm trying to say" or even "I already said that", not because I don't even know what I'm trying to say - as you said. It's because you can't get the point. My first post says it all: "To be honest, I don't want a tier of higher damage weapons". You see? I don't want it.
And, then, I said you must be joking by saying that TR weapons are the easy mode ones, when VS gets their accurate stuff. My 52 level for TR is not the whole gameplay experience I had, I play both NC and VS too. NC when I'm playing with my friend, and VS when it's not prime time so I can fight for the low population and enjoy some wub wub wub. The best experience I can have is TR for sure, because I play for this empire since PS1, but I do know that NC is hard to control their weapons for mid-long ranges, and for CQC they're powerful since the recoil doesn't count and you can hit easier. As for VS, the bullet drop is nice when you're playing in open field and shoot people at the top hills or roof on buildings, for example, but yes it takes some meters to be effective - still not useless as you're trying to make it look like. VS has similar potential for CQC as TR.
But then, again: NC is the only different feel if we talk about unique faction characteristics, so TR and VS are really similar. As ZanzibarsDeli said, sounds fair to have a 167 damage weapon for TR if NC has a high RoF one, and here comes what I'm telling you and, for some reason, you can't understand: it is fair, but I suggest to just take away from the game any weapon stats that crosses the other factions' characteristics, then adjust it to be a different option but still between the faction's treat zone.

We get better move CoF on the solstice weapons and the equinox weapons, that is all. So really it's only 2 guns, since the SF and burst versions are just variants, one no one even uses. It is not the case that any VS LMGs has better moving CoF, but they do featur the 0.75 instead.

AS Van Dax said, sort of said, imagine if only the Trac and cycler weapons had 40 round clips, and the other Carbines and ARs had 30. Welcome to VS, except also that our little bonus is very bad compared to 10 more bullets.

Long story short, TR carbine QQ is jut about the dumbest thing I could imagine. But I often forget it's being perpetrated by bads.

If they were balance passing carbines, they could give TR a 167 damage carbine, and even give them some high RoF one if they want, but all that would be below giving VS a usable, decent trait on their ALL their carbines. Like for instance, a quicker recovery time after sprinting, or a substantially better ADS and hip CoF for moving/sprinting/jumping than currently, or lower horizontal recoil, or 0.75 MS ADS....and so on.

It's not really a QQ of my part.
Of course TR carabines shines at CQC (Especially with larger mags).
But a 20-30 bullet Carabine (even with low RPM) decent at medium range would be more interesting than the actual T5 AMC wich is not a viable option. Even with higher recoil and less bullet speed, i actually prefer using the T5-S at that pattern than buying the AMC.
143 weapons are bad @ medium-long range anyways, just telling.

I don't see why you think I'm mad, I just explained what you can't understand. In this case, my point. The carbine stuff isn't a stat to be compared, as I'm not talking about carbines. I never said I was. I'm talking about the whole weapons variety. You're nobody to judge if you need to be at least "x" level, and as I said I play both 3 factions so there goes my battle ranks on it. It's like comparing ages. If I'm 37 years old and you're only 24, for example, then I can say that you don't know a thing about life and all that "old man" stuff, right? Wrong. Same for this game, as I didn't have the time to play the game like I don't need to work, college, play other games with my girl, go see my parents etc. Accuracy and K/D ratio are nothing, I don't feel like I need to run the game and kill everyone and be ashamed when I die, or when I shoot targets that are covered just to make them feel fear. And, as always, you're trying to say whoever is capable of replying on you or this thread. Let's put a warning here:

DON'T POST ON THIS THREAD IF YOU DON'T HAVE HIGH BR, K/D RATIO AND ACCURACY.

Let's see if you can say a thing when the BR100s with 5 K/D ratio and 55%+ accuracy get here. Now, once again: can you calm down, take your pills and stop trying to act like The Ultimate Forum Warrior Commentator here? Let's follow your logic, so you can talk to yourself alone at this thread until a higher BR (or who has higher score) with better accuracy than you appears and start talking to himself. HUEHUEHUE BR BR (you got the joke? I know you did)

I am ignoring whatever it is you're trying to say though, if you're trying to say a thing.