Simple physics for why 0.75 ADS is not OP

I notice a huge difference when I encounter 0.75 players anywhere within ~30M(So, at distances where 80% of this Arena TDM conflict takes place.

A) Leading Overcompensating(Never happens against 0.5). I can't practically know how fast they are able to move until after their Alpha phase(I have likely taken already too much Dmg, low TTK in PS2). It could be argued I should assume the worst, but encountering bad players with the wrong weapons way too often has made me form a habit of automatically assuming 0.5 or non aggressiveness or bad reflexes. So you see I'm being fair here but practically, I CAN'T KNOW BEFOREHAND how fast they'll be able to move even if I had not developed any habit. Also assuming automatically I'll be going against 0.75 can cause just as bad overcompensation. I can counter this only by running 0.75; I(And they) can correct bad leading while I ADADA at 0.75 because my own movements can let me dodge the Alpha. I can't do that with .05.

B) The enemy being able to match my ADADA. This could be attributed to me doing it in a very particular pattern which could be a very vanilla way for all I know, a pattern instantly recognizable thus allowing the opponent to keep up- Only it never happens when the opponent is running 0.5 too. In my experience only 0.75 opponents are able to match my ADADA step for step when I run 0.5. With 0.75 I can more easily change my ADADA pattern(Faster would be the right word) and at worst, we'll be able to throw each other off. It is an obvious crutch in this scenario.

C) The opponent being able to move faster means they can make corrections to their ADADA even after receiving Dmg- If that means they will dodge just 1 bullet, due to TTK being low, they might come on top, when I run 0.5. I simply do not have the margin to do this unless I too use 0.75.

D) Normally I should be at an advantage if were able to keep a reasonable distance from my opponent, even with 0.5- GL maintaining reasonable distances in an Arena TDM environment; It's best to be aggressive and close the distance and ADADA. No explanation needed, you either do that or pretend you're playing Rainbow-6 and get hilariously wrecked. And who does it faster(More aggressively too), will win.

TLDR If an average opponent is using an average 0.75 weapon and I'm running 0.5, regardless of my skill, they will have some clear and distinct advantages favoured by PS2's environments and TTK- Which I can only counter by running 0.75 or... Luck? Now imagine what happens if that opponent is skilled and the weapon is actually good along with having 0.75. "GGQQBB" followed by "L2P scrub" and some T-Bag. And the moment I switch to my 0.75, we're suddenly having a fair fight. That alone speaks volumes.

I could go on about Lag, hit detect, HA shields, MediKits ETC and how all that only makes it worse for the 0.5 players but I can't bother right now... You do the math on those.

Eh, I think they need to add momentum to the aim point...ie, if you are juking to the left, then quickly juke to the right, your weapon's aimpoint needs to continue that left motion after you started moving to the right...same as the ducking motion...your aim needs to "rise" as you duck, then slightly settle downward before you get back on target.

In other words, all that fancy ADADCADADC should punish your aim as you jerk your weapon around in 3 dimensions a lot more then it currently does. Sure, you are harder to hit...but its harder for you to hit anyone else too.

To h ell with good will.
If you want something, ask the devs to start with the said weapon as a base and then start seasoning with faction flavor.

Jesus Christ, these threads.

So, too hell with all Empire Specific weapons then? All weapons should be similar to eachother with aa few changes to make them "Different."

Why don't you just play Battlefield 3 instead?

Simple to people who think the bible is a 20 minute read, TLDR man!!!

Kettle calling a pot. You're the one who requested the weapon, straight up; I'm at least trying to preserve some sense of distinction within the constraints of calling the request reasonable.

Sarcasm, heard of it? I was replying to someone who said that everyone should get the Orion. Don't jump into a discussion where you have read half the comments.

The person you replied to also said he had not read most of the comments either.

I address everyone as if their arguments were serious, unless the argument is beyond absurdity and keeps trying to lay it on. It's the least I can do for a format that is poor at delivering the kind of emotive power basic intonation would reveal. And, like said, if the request sounds reasonable at some level, as I felt it did, it is difficult to be interpretted as sarcasm. Swift sounds perfectly reasonable up to the point where he actually gets down to explaining how his economic proposal works, where it becomes hilariously bereft of any delicacy.

If the definition of diversity is not where one side shoots bullets that look like bullets, a second side shoots bullets that look like bullets, and a third participant shoots bullets that look like balls of plasma but hit like bullets, then we're on the wrong footing from the get-go. We either abandon all our befuddlement and make the whole of the system consistent, at least, or we scrap the system and build it back up from some deeper level. Just 0.75 ADS alone isn't worth this level of frustration or defensiveness.

Is there any faction here who is willing to specialize in semi-automatic weaponry?

Yuuk is assuming that both targets are travelling parallel to each other and in the same direction. .5+.75=1.25 sort of thing.

However, the flaw comes in not realising that the advantage of .75 ADS comes in the lack of acceleration when instigating a change in direction. In layman terms, you cause the other guy to miss by not being where his crosshair is. Since human reaction times are not 0 and projectiles have velocity we can assume that being able to rapidly switch directions and therefore causing your enemy to miss their shots more frequently, will allow you to extend your current health pool by simply not taking shots.

Alarox gives much better examples that are in better detail. Read those.

While correct on the mathematical/physical point of relative speed this misses the point entirely.

A few theoretical experiments from my side:
Let us assume a hitbox is 0.5m wide.
Let us assume standard MS is 2m/s.
Let us assume the shooting starts with standing characters.
Let us assume both players have a 100% accuracy and aim for center mass. Also they need the exactly same time to adjust their aim after a direction change.
Let us assume both players use a weapon with RoF of 600.
Let us assume both players are standard infantery with 500hp and 500 shield and no nanoweave.
Let us assume they both ONLY move left and right in those scenarios.
Most important: Let us assume that the player changing direction is kinda expecting this and can adjust his aim without time delay (instantly)

Example A. Player I (0.5) changes direction:
Player I needs 0.25m/(2ms*0.5)seconds to escape the enemies aim right now. That is 0,25s.
Since the RoF of the enemy weapon is 10 shots per second he is hit by 2.5 bullets before his hitbox leaves the enemy crosshair completely.
Example B Player II (0.75) changes direction:
Player I needs 0.25m/(2ms*0.75)seconds to escape the enemies aim right now. That is 0,1666s.
Since the RoF of the enemy weapon is 10 shots per second he is hit by 1.66 bullets before his hitbox leaves the enemy crosshair completely.

New assumption: The fight doesnt start with standing characters, but both of them already moving.

Example C. Player I (0.5) changes direction:
Player I needs 0.25m/(2*2ms*0.5)seconds to escape the enemies aim right now. That is 0,125s.
Since the RoF of the enemy weapon is 10 shots per second he is hit by 1,25 bullets before his hitbox leaves the enemy crosshair completely.
Example D Player II (0.75) changes direction:
Player I needs 0.25m/(2*2ms*0.75)seconds to escape the enemies aim right now. That is 0,8333s.
Since the RoF of the enemy weapon is 10 shots per second he is hit by 0,8333 bullets before his hitbox leaves the enemy crosshair completely.

TL;DR: Their relative speed to one another may be always the same, but it is also completely irrelevant. The relevant thing is the time it takes for the character to escape the enemies bullets before his enemy adjusts his aim again. And that is a pretty obvious 50% advantage for the 0.75 guy.

these issues also apply to 0.5 ADS
also heavy shield, not really moving at 0.75

I'm going to be the voice of reason here, 0.75 movement speed is advantageous, latency and net coding is stretched thin in large battles, try-hards do attempt to strafe spam, although greatly annoying it's not a pressing issue, at least in terms of "nerfing" the VS, but in itself shows a large flaw in the overall game design.

What should happen:
Redesign of the awkward inertia physics in PS2, from losing momentum from jumping in place, to having to decelerate if I immediately shift my player's velocity in the opposite direction. Which includes the slowing of crouching with overuse, see CS:GO as an example.

What I'm not going to do:
Overreact, regurgitate data, tell stories, analogies, be snide and so forth. I may be biased but I will attempt to look at it from your point of view. (Hate to be buzzkillington, but nothing makes me frustrated than seeing a group of people using forums to whine, vent, or otherwise be counter productive)

Let's attempt to be civil, planetside 2 is for all of us, and the forums shouldn't server as a battleground to damage other factions, but as players convey our thoughts to improve the game. You animals.

Similarly would you argue the extra magazine size and fire rate that many tr weapons boast is op? If not then everyone should have it.
Would you argue the extra damage on many nc weapons is op? If not than everyone should get it!

Wait...now the only differences are colors and names...How's that even remotely unique or interesting in the game world?

And now if you consider that when a player changes direction the second one KEEPS moving his aim to that initial direction until he realizes he changed direction, you have to take the relative speed to make this calculations. So now you have different cases for each player, because the player going fastest is already moving his aim 0.25 to the opposite direction. The difference for him is 1.0 speed, while the one for the other player is aiming 0.25 in the same direction and then the 0.75 goes away from the stream at 1.5 speed. If we do calculations, 0.25/(2*2*1.5) - 0.25/(2*2*1) we have a difference of |0.04166 - 0.06| which is a difference of 0.01833 seconds faster. You would never be able to notice it even if you knew it was there, and i don't know any gun firing 50 bullets per second in planetside which would be the only way to actually possibly lose an extra bullet when this happens.

So yeah relative speed is very relevant

I wouldnt argue that they are OP. But I would that they are faction traits that are unique to said faction. No one but VS has no bullet drop. No one but NC has 200 damage infantry weapons. And no one but TR has larger mags (except LMG, which really needs to be sorted in my view). However, 0.75 ADS is not a unique trait. Every faction has it already, just limited to a certain weapon classes.

By what you just wrote in everything but the last paragraph, someone would assume that a player remaining stationary should be on completely level ground or better against anyone using ADAD due to relative movement.

Does a person ADADing have the same level of difficulty tracking as the target does if that target is stationary?

Clearly they don't, but why is that?

Bizarrely enough you then go to contradict yourself by stating that relative movement is not enough, and then say it's more of a hybrid where relative movement is enough as long as both parties are moving regardless of the difference in movement speed as the relative movement would still be the same. The important factor must then be the ability to change directions.

What determines who controls the movement and therefore the engagement?

Would a player strafing at 0.5 meters per second have the same level of control as a player strafing at 3.5 meters per second?

Do both have the same minimum amount of time needed to displace themselves in the other player's sights before they can reverse direction again?

If it isn't OP, why do all the Vanu heavies leap to its defence?

Probably because a lot of us are tired of constant vanu hate and are tired of anything that performs well for us getting nerfed because of Vanu Hate Syndrome. Even if the thing doesn't perform to a level that is game breaking or even into the realm of the proverbial "op". Just hate that vanu do something they can't.

Even those of us who post and argue for buffs or fixes for other factions often also get lumped into "op vanu wants to keep their op stuff".

The fact that we would rather see things more diverse on all sides rather than remove traits simply because people are upset at dying or have an axe to grind goes uncared for and many would rather see vanu with nothing unique and weaker in most guns just to satisfy that makes us vehemently guard the things we can.

I don't know where you saw that. Personally I saw plenty of people indifferent to it.

Thing is, you will shift the whine-meter from VS to NC if the 0.75 gets removed from LMGs, since heavies can equip SMGs and NC got the Cyclone.