Specialty Server Types? (Question Inside)

I haven't played EQ since the very first. Original EQ was my first MMO and I loved it. (I even met my wife of 12 years while playing) We stuck with it for a couple of years BUT once I found other games had pvp/wvw/rvr I lost interest in it. I am really hoping they include wvw or rvr in the game because the graphics and other aspects look totally awesome! IMO this game without a healthy effort put into pvp would be like the most awesome sportscar you ever wanted but it didnt come with wheels or tires. You can sit in it and play with the sound system, watch a video, rev the engine and impress the ladies but.....after awhile you get bored with it and catch the bus to the mall.
So c'mon DEVS! Make the pve and pvp peoples equally happy.

WvWvW is boring. Also it does not make sense in a Sandbox world (In a themepark with an already set story where wars and such need to be deviated, it makes sense. However a War can start anywhere in a sandbox world that is made by players.). Battlegrounds and WvWvW are separate servers and instances, there will be no instances (or very few) in EQNext.

PvP/PvE must be mixed up inside the open world and should be made by the choices your character makes within the game. If you become a thief and steal from an NPC and a player catches you, he should be able to attack you regardless of any server. Of course he wouldn't kill you, but apprehend you. If a player is allied to a faction, and he sees you engaging that faction, he should be able to kill and apprehend you. Exactly how Skyrim/other games are. This is why ESO is a massive failure.

EQNext was sold and said: "Putting the Roleplay back into RPG", which is exactly what I want, not some stupid WvWvW zone or server that is completely separate from the game, that isn't how an RPG is. How can you play your character or a role when your inside a meaningless space?

To a lot of people WvWvW makes the game more complete. There are other games where the wvw areas are NOT separate servers or instances btw... i.e. Warhammer. The way in which you presented a pvp scenario sounds so totally boring to me. I agree with you about ESO though. I.M.O. there has not been a decent wvwvw game since the original Dark Age of Camelot and even that got boring after awhile. That was over 10 years ago and nobody has figured out how to improve on it.

I get the impression that your idea of wvwvw is some type of RP version of Call of Duty. That's definitely NOT what I want either BUT to have a game where a major portion of what you do involves "killing" things in whatever RP way makes you feel heroic and yet not be able to kill each other just sounds like half a game to me.
As for saying WvWvW is pointless....If I were to try to explain to a non gamer how I sit for hours in front of a computer killing magical creatures with my mighty greatsword, or building a castle, or crafting a suit of armor, or killing my fellow gamers.........to them where would the line be between pointless and worthwhile? I think whatever your preference is (pve/pvp) we are pretty much in the same boat. lol

No one should be made to accept the possibility of unwanted PVP or not play. And for a majority of people, any PVP they didn't directly volunteer for (and/or any PVP AT ALL) is unwanted PVP.

I still cannot understand why some of you fail to accept that more people want NOTHING to do with PVP or want only controlled PVP; than there are of those of you who want everyone to have to accept PVP or just not play.

There should absolutely be PVP servers. And if one or more of those servers include RvR or WvW play, then that's only to the better--and would no doubt be extremely popular.

But people who espouse enforced PVP on absolutely everyone and no way to escape it, simply refuse to acknowledge the mindset of other players. The MORE people who play this game, the MORE support there is for continuing it, improving it, and adding to it.

By shutting out a larger majority of the population--those who want either NO pvp at all or only voluntary/elective pvp--you shut down a vast source of revenue. This impacts not only the bottom line of the company, but the longevity of the game and the support (financial and otherwise) for the game.

Those of us who dislike PVP are not here demanding that there be zero PVP in the game and all PVP'rs be forced to accept a PVPless game. Yet I continue to see this demand that even those who detest and refuse to accept PVP should be forced into it.

Like sitting on a child's chest and forcing them to eat brussels sprouts until they vomit... "Well, they'd like them if they just ate ENOUGH!" Nobody who hates PVP wants it forced down their throats like brussels sprouts. You don't want there to be zero PVP... so don't make it so that I can't run around freely without the fear some "other realm" bozo will stumble across me and engage me in something I detest--PVP.

Please speak in support of a server for the sort of play that you enjoy; please do not speak in support of trying to enforce your playstyle on people. It's "let them eat cake" mentality.

How are we going to convince them to begin preparing for specialty servers by arguing that our individual preference should be forced on anyone who wants to play the game at all? We aren't. Yet that's what you're trying to do here. Trying to convince them to make people either PVP or not play at all. You just as well cut your own nose off.

Do what you like, but please no open world pvp. This is just a way to invite grievers and trolls and we don't want another Mortal Online/Darkfall corpse camping fest. Do a karma system like Fallout and that should be enough. Do bounty quests if you want, sure. But please, NO OPEN WORLD PVP!

I'm sorry but this is a roleplaying game. If you don't want "unwanted" pvp, don't commit a crime. In a roleplaying game if you commit a crime, another player may attack you. Big deal, YOU want a game with depth and consequences or do you want another generic MMO that nobody will play in 2 years. Games need to stop spoonfeeding the lowest common denominator.

This game was advertised to where your choices will matter, and bad choices will have bad consequences *le gasp!*. I am a roleplayer, and I for one, welcome forced pvp if it happens to me and I make a bad choice. Forced PvE as well. If I kill an NPC and someone else finds out about it, bounties should or could be placed on my head, people dislike you.

I am glad almost every other new MMO supports your playstyle, however its been 10 years. I want to go back to the old way when MMOs had some balls and actually made gameplay fun and have some kind of impact on your gameplay. Back then there was no PvP/PvE/Roleplay, there was only an MMORPG, a "ROLE PLAYING GAME" where you played your role, if you played a villain people could attack you, there was no special zones and it was FUN. Now everything is streamlined and rules are forced upon you.

If your a necromancer, and you use necromancy in a "good" town that detests it, you should immediately go red and attack-able to every player and npc in the town. Tough luck, you knew the rules and you broke them, next time hide your identity better.

Older MMOs were not games, they were worlds you could live and breathe in. They didn't have things like Gearscore, WvWvW, Battlegrounds, PvE, PvP. They had deptth, consequences to actions, and the feeling of you actually being your character. That is now dead, and its mostly because of players like you. In older games if you used dark magic in a good city, you would get punished for it, players could attack you, you had bounties placed on your head and could be hunted down by players. You had to PLAY your character and hide your idenitity. You know how it feels to be scared of the power your character has? NO. You don't.

Now, I am off my soapbox. I am sorry if I offended you or anyone, this was not a call out. I just wish you played games when they weren't games, but "Worlds".

I played original EQ for many, many years. The vast majority of those years were on a no PVP server.

It is an incredible game. It has the most depth, the most challenge, and the most immersion of any game I've played.

Without any PVP at all, it didn't spoonfeed anyone, anywhere. It had depth, it had consequences, it had immersion, it had everything that no game since has managed... because the consequences came from game dynamics that were completely impartial. Whether you were level 1 or level 50, the rules applied to you. Whether you were on a PVP server or a PVE server, the rules applied to you.

I don't care if you welcome it. I welcome you getting it on your own server!! I APPLAUD you getting it on your own server. In fact, I will be appalled if they don't create such a server for you--there's no excuse for it!

But I don't PVP. If they are not capable of making the consequences come through THE GAME ITSELF, and must rely upon other players to be enforcers, then they are not half the devs they appear to be.

PVP is not the answer, it's merely the only one you seem able to come up with. It's fine and great for you to have PVP. Enjoy it!

I expect the devs to deliver on their promise, without forcing detestable PVP on me. You cannot come up with any alternative; that much is clear. But I have utter faith that they can. There is precedent for it... and that precedent is within the heritage of this company.

New games don't support my play style at all. That's something you made up, for some unknown reason.

I am one of the loudest voices here against convenience, and one of the strongest voices here for extremely challenging GAME-BASED (NOT PVP-BASED) consequences for your actions. I am pro-harsh-death-penalties. I am against jumping through the game using death because it has become so meaningless.

I am ALL for people attacking me if I choose to be a criminal--NPCs are supposed to attack me under specific circumstances!! That's their job!

I hear you on how fun you think it is to have other players attacking you, or to get to attack other players. And that's why I support 1,000% or more that you get a server that makes you happy!

What you don't hear, though, or perhaps just plain don't care about, is that I do not ever want to pvp. And before you say that's just me, it most certainly isn't. It's the most common mindset. And you need to get over the fallacious idea that it's because we "don't want consequences". It's because we don't like attacking players and we don't like players attacking us because we take it personally in ways that it can never be personal with an NPC. I'm not asking you to understand that. It's clear you can't.

But you have to accept it. Just as I accept that, for whatever reason, you do like PVP; accept that the majority do not like it, and won't play, period if PVP becomes an integral part of the entire game.

Yes! Those NPCs will know, and they will kick your ****. Or if you try to go into Neriak and you have the reputation of being some kind of goodie-goodie, they will all chase you and they will stop at nothing to destroy and annihilate you!

Because it's their job to create the realism. It's the job of the NPCs to hear rumors and to patrol streets and to keep the wicked at bay. They exist to perform these functions! They exist to create a world where there are consequences--and hopefully steep ones!

A well done game doesn't need to force PVP onto players who don't want it. A well done game allows PVPers to have a server where they can play their own way, as well. A well done game doesn't rely on forcing unwanted PVP onto the vast majority of gamers (because they detest it), but instead makes sure that even in the absence of other players, consequences exist--because the devs took responsibility and made an amazing game that handles consequences already.

Really? Because of "players like me"? You mean anyone who doesn't agree with you? Anyone who liked Everquest original but didn't PVP is the reason why modern games have too many conveniences, not enough consequences, and are made solely as money-churning machines?

Reeeeaaaaalllllyyyy???

In older games, if you used dark magic at all and went into an NPC city, the NPCs would lay waste to you. They didn't NEED no stinkin' players to enforce the rules. They WERE THE LAW!

No PVP was ever necessary in Everquest, because the game itself was so immensely immersive and powerful. The NPCs had views of those puny dark elves and those scraggly high elves and those reeking trolls. The game itself manifested consequences; powerful consequences that made you reach out to other players because THE WORLD was terrifying and full of dangers. No PVP was necessary to make Everquest one of the most dangerous feeling games to date...

The world itself was danger. Danger lurked everywhere... in places and at times that you didn't expect it. A moment's distraction meant death--and they didn't need to force PVP on people to create that.

This can be done without forcing PVP on the unwilling. But if you want to cut off the larger majority of the gaming population just because you cannot think of an alternative, then I don't know what else to tell you.

I want a real feeling world back. But I know a secret. I'm going to share it with you right now. PVP is not required to create an immersive, dangerous-feeling world. In fact, you can have ZERO PVP and still have a dangerous, immersive world.


In Minecraft, the world suddenly feels extremely dangerous when you are far from home with your precious diamonds and you're lost because you went into a mine and forgot to lay your torches correctly... or missed a torch... and you'll lose your favorite pickaxe and all the diamonds you found, and the melon seeds you wanted so badly...

None of that has a THING to do with PVP. Yet in that moment, a game as little, silly, and absurd as minecraft can feel dangerous and the consequences of dying can feel huge--even though you'll respawn right at home.

A game should be well enough crafted that even if no players are around, you STILL feel the gut-punch of bad choices. It shouldn't fall back on PVP to create what has been created before without it. It should allow for PVP for those that want it, but the world itself should be so punishing that PVP is a secondary factor, not the crutch that holds the game up and provides "consequences and danger".

I'm not trying to force my opinion or preferences on anyone. I just hope they cover all the preferences equally. My initial post was only my hope that they put as much thought into the pvp/wvw options as they have into the pve (because the pve looks awesome). I think that you could have the same sandbox with different rule sets to cover ALL the bases. I hope this is what they are shooting for.

Yes, I didn't see you asking for the entire game to be PVP. The person that I quoted, on the other hand, does want it that way. He doesn't just want a server that has PVP, he wants the entire game to be PVP without any possibility of choosing not to be involved in it.

Real life is PvP, if you cuss out a cop your going to get beaten and arrested. You can avoid PvP in my playstyle of game, you just need to follow rules and the law and avoid factional signups and encounters. I don't think you fully understand what I mean.

How to avoid PvP: Common sense. I know a lot of you lack it but its time to learn it again.

What if PvP was done in contested territories only? So, if you're in your own zone, you can't be attacked, but if you go into neutral zones then you can be attacked. Then, I would offer the possibility of leveling up while completely avoiding PvP, but give you lots of neutral zone world PvP with objectives (like destroying/building fortifications).

___________________________________________________________________________

Adjacent progression safe zones ------------------------------------------- Adjacent progression safe zones

Faction 1 zone | Contested zone (PvP allowed, build freindly/destroy enemy structures) | Faction 2 zone

_______________________________________________________________________

So, basically you can do non-instanced, objective driven PvP that has impact on the actual warfare going on that has emergent RTS elements (destructible buildings and siege equipment already exist EQN).

So, the warfare could be a hell of a lot more engaging, and world PvP would still exist, but it wouldn't be a stupid gankfest unless specialty servers allowed for it.

That isn't how sandboxes work. Set designed games are for themeparks, instancing content is for themeparks. You pretty much separated the server via an instance if you did that. PvP should be able to happen anywhere, because that is how Sandboxes work. The second you add too many limits and rules is the second you kill the games customization. Players should make the choice.

The second you do that, you remove the ability for players to make cities anywhere they want to, and other cool stuff like that.

I said specialty servers would give you the free for all PvP wherever you want.

PvP servers are popular on WoW, you won't face a dearth of people. Lots of people don't mind the possibility of getting ganked, like you yourself.

Free for all PvP isn't what I desire, mindless pvp is boring. I desire PvP from consequences and actions you make within the game. Not mindless babble such as that. Please read my ideas further.

I desire people that has consequences, reasons for attacking people.

Mindless PvP should not be in EQNext. (Aka FFA servers.)

WoW is a Themepark game, they can't have consequences to PvP because that isn't how their lore or stories are. That is why Themepark games are dull and boring.

F2P is SOE's baby, you might as well just move on if that's a deal breaker for you because the game will absolutely be F2P. No question, no room for debate. Just look at anything they've said.

And honestly it isn't the end of the world, I don't know what everyone's always complaining about. This isn't some scammy browser game or anything, I think they do F2P as well as it can possibly be done.

Mostly because the real game is still sub based, after all, they sell gold membership. It isn't overly monetized when you pay for their gold membership. They just charge for a bunch of convenience features that old skoolers like me wouldn't fool with anyways, research speedups and whatnot.

You imply that people left EQ because it went F2P but that's kinda dumb, honestly, and definitely not true. People left EQ because WoW was developed partly in response to complaints about it, it wasn't even F2P at the time. WoW gave the people what they "wanted", a convenient and accessible MMO that a potato could play. And people have left WoW and all its clones now, because they are realizing that what they "wanted" wasn't really as fulfilling long term as the bare bones games like UO and EQ that they were complaining about when WoW was being made. Also because of the kung fu pandas thing, amiright.

So someone will say "but EQII sucks". EQII sucks for its own reasons, mostly because it was developed in competition with WoW so it resembles it much more than the old EQ. EQII does NOT suck because it's F2P. It sucks because of a crap economy, BGs, low population (well, on the PvP server for sure), and horrible lore. But whatever EQII's problems, and being F2P, it's still the best cookie cutter MMO out there right now.

I would much rather have to deal with the little "speed up" type microtransactions they use than have EQN come out with a ridiculous sub + B2P model like ESO ($15/month, plus you buy the game for $60, and if you play on xbox it uses xbox Live for another $10/month). That price means I can't play a game that I would happily a pay for because I just plain can't afford it. So they get nothing from me now. If the game in question is really good, good=expensive. So to make profit they either have to draw a large base paying small amounts or a small and dedicated fanbase paying more. It won't be free to DL and have a low sub, like you say "$7 a month doesn't bother anyone", they wouldn't make money. These games need constant updating and ongoing development. I would rather not be part of a small group paying a ton, because I'm broke, but also specifically for an MMO where the game is better when the population is higher. Everyone says "but the freeloaders flock to F2P games and they're a**holes" and to me that's just stupid and elitist internet nerdery. Higher population=better economy=more social outlets=better MMO. Plain and simple. It really is just that easy. People are a**holes whether they pay $10/month for a game or not.

/endF2Prant

This. Right here.

I totally agree with Nagafen_Katy in that it doesn't matter what MMO or even any game for that matter. There will always be those people that their soul purpose in life is to try to ruin the experience for everyone else whether its Sub based or not.

ANYWAYS! as for specialty servers. I haven't been much of a PvP player in MMOs. With that being said I do like to PvP once in a while to change it up a bit. The one thing I do not like is trying to level and getting constantly camped by some jerk that prevents me from getting where I need to go and enjoying myself.

I don't mind playing on PvP servers but it has to be done properly. There needs to have some kind of restrictions and regulations that lets you level your character without being paranoid wondering if some jack-wagon is waiting for you behind the bush you murder you but also enjoy that competitive side of world PvP that is gigantic in scale is involves everyone.

I probably didn't explain myself very well so I apologize >.<

PvP/PvE servers should be mixed and have consequences to actions. Jack the Ripper may be stalking you, however killing you out in the open could have dire consequences. However if you go into dark spooky forest expect some bandits and bring friends. There are no levels in EQNext, so everyone should be able to put up a fight.

Give us a pvp server with free for all! Any former Rallos Zek players from the days of old still around these parts? It was a glorious time in Everquest. Give us the chance to make new new tales of blood and combat in Norrath!

I began playing EQ in 1999 and migrated quickly to Vallon when it was released, and then finally to Sullon Zek, a PVP Diety Server, and it was, by far, the most exciting server that I have ever played on in any game, in my life. Nothing has come remotely close since. Everything has paled in comparison.

If we can get a similar PvP Diety based teams server going in EQN, by all means, please do!

Good vs Neutral vs Evil

A side topic, but something I feel will one day be accomplished in MMO's, as they are becoming more and more realistic with the addition of advanced AI software....

When we watch movies like Star Wars, or Lord of the Rings, there's always one baddie who is evidently stronger than everyone else, good or bad. In this case, the Emperor and Sauron.

Though the story does not end well for these two, it is a commonality.

EQN is dynamic, with permanent change. It has more advanced AI than previous games, and with the addition of Story Bricks, it can unleash some real hidden potential.

To approach what I believe will be quite possible in terms of realism; implementing aspects of movie plots and storylines. I feel with the technology in SOE's hands, the players themselves can become the story and dictate the outcome of their server in very differing ways from one another.

If players could become that ultimate baddie, or heroine figure on the server they play on, with the addition of NPC AI baddies and goodies, the immersion factor would far surpass any game in history.

I guess you can ask, have you ever wanted to be the Emperor? Or Sauron? What rule-set would have to be implemented and what would have to happen for that to occur in an MMO?

I think a throwback server would be great.

But I would prefer a serverset that is reminiscent of how Shadowbane played out. noob island with 3 safe cities to sell in. Everything else would be left up to the play ers. Who create their own guilds, factions, alliances, and enemies. Then players through progession, coin, ect would create their own player run cities with their own unique rally calls. Then based on inter city factions you would become allied, neutral, or at the brink of war. Beyond the 3 trade hubs the whole world would be nothing but a pvp haven.

If your allied you get to share the marketplace, quests, objectives. If at war you could go to war with another city and take their resources their city is built out of minus what has been destroyed in the siege process. But you would have to declare war in some kind of faction and have objectives like taking out govenment buildings, fortifications, defenses, ect.