I was waiting for something like this - Lets assume its a single target mob, since AE's on both classes are ballanced. Aim 1s Rain 2s snipers 5s 8s total Using your numbers 18k damage within 8 seconds.. = 2.2kish.. (this is a spike, not our dps) Now lets assume the assassin has not crited. Killing blade 0.5s 7k Eviscerate 0.5s 3k Jugular 0.5s 2k Cloaked assault 2s 2.2k (I believe it ticks 5 times) Slaughtersault 3s 3k (may have cloaked/slaughter's casts mixed up) 15.2k in 5.5s 8-5.5=2.5/8=31.25% 0.3125*18k = 5625 5625+15.2k=20825 20825 -18000 =2825 Using your own logic of damage, and assuming it would be a linear diffrence.. This is what the diffrence you would get.. Assassin still beats out the ranger by 10% in this circumstance. And, this is pure burst dps we are including.. I have already come across this in several diffrent ways in a previous post.. The damages between the two classes are similar, but since the cast times vary you get a large diffrence in overall dps. Assassins beat rangers in recycle time per dps, dps, sustained dps, and burst dps.. We are even in AE dps. Ohhh.. and PLEASE keep throwing more numbers at me!! Im serious - it makes it that much easier on me. Message Edited by LoreLady on 08-20-2006 01:10 PM
Just stop talking now, plz.. the fact that you play a ranger on PVP explains every last one of your statements. Seeing as how you cant even group with classes from freeport, you dont have any idea. Rangers are just fine for groups, and solo, and it seems even PVP. The problems is with raid rangers. Thats where the numbers fall short. Edit: Spelling Message Edited by TerriBlades on 08-20-2006 05:56 PM
Malignant Mark - Hits 5 times for 1000-1500. Every 30secs Freezing Strike: 1200-3K (not on atm, but around there) 1min reuse Crippling Strike: 1200-3K 1min reuse 3 other minor CA's that do minimal dmg. Decapitate: 15K-30K 10min reuse Neck Shot: 2K-4K 1min use Other range attacked (forget name lol): Same as Neck shot 1min reuse We do more damage period. None of your attacks will ever compare to Malignant Mark no matter what anyone says.
Greetings, i find it quite ridiculous to post an answer to the OP comment... but to something i saw posted in here saying like "For PvP, Solo and Groups" rangers are doing fine... In raids we suck... Since i am not a hardcore raider (it does not mean i dont raid but i am sure there are many more able rangers than me on this field) i ll talk about Solo and Groups... now lets assume that i suck as a player and i had sucked all the time with my ranger and my DPS... now i have to spend fortune on arrows, do tons of dancing between ranged and melee CA's, use a 10 sec Crit increase CA every 30 secs, have to get best poisons possible to cost me even more fortune to par the player i used to be which sucks... Assuming that i am a decent player, then again i have to do all those above to be just decent... For being #1 DPS... well thats out of the question anyways... cuz whether in raid or not, if other classes outparse me as a ranger, they outparse me anyways in solo or group too... maybe with a narrower margin... but they do... arent i right?
Not necessarily. The additional level of complexity thrown into the mix when it comes to raiding truly allows the disparity between rangers and assassins / rogues to manifest itself. Whether it be due to lack procs off of ranged, double-attack, taking advantage of debuffs, or who knows what..in raiding rangers fall behind. In group play, however, we can match pretty much any class out there.
I play on exile. Maybe you ougth to go to EQ2census.com and check the numbers on Rangers 60-70 on your server. I doubt there is lot of stuff to solo T7. Even when they as nerfed as you say there still tonz of Rangers among teh scout classes. Now thats a suprise to me why do people still make Rangers over other scout class? Over brigands? If Rangers just plain old suck at raiding? Why at T7 are there more Rangers than anyother scout class? Message Edited by nirav21 on 08-21-2006 09:45 AM
Rangers are one of the most popular classes for roleplayers across all MMORPGs, along with wizards. Blame Hollywood if you need to point a finger, but it doesn't really have anything to do with actual in-game productivity.
Wow, I almost made the mistake of reading the rest of this thread! Phew! Seriously peeps, if you want to hold fast to your opinions, go right ahead. Nobody is going to "prove" anything here. If you think the class is great and you're having a blast playing it, keep on truckin. There's no reason to come here and try to convince somebody who doesn't feel the same way that you're "right." It just doesn't make any difference. But if that's how you want to spend your time, go right ahead. PS: The number of ppl playing X class on Y server has absolutely nothing to do with the mechanics of the class itself.
not debating that assassins do more dps than rangers. I'm saying that assassins can't get all of their positionals off in one shot. You missed decap, as well as Puncture Blade in your lineup... (they qualify as positionals, so ALL means erm.. all (suprise!)) Also debating that assassins can red-line any solo mob on a pull from a standstill (unlikely at best afaik) So maybe I shouldn't have quoted the last line as well, but what I was addressing was still correct.
Also on average I am 2-3s into concealment before my client has realised that I am stealthed. I start with killing blade, and generally get off jugular, eviscerate and one other(usually cloaked assault) and sometimes another (slaughter or puncture blade, unless decap is up) wtg servers that are allocated based on zone rather than population... eg deathtoll when there are 2-3 other raids in, or lab which our guild share the night with 1-4 other guilds.. and considering that we are based in australia, pinging servers in the US - what feels like the east coast (although I may be wrong on this)...considering my shooter experience and what lag feels like i'm pinging 3-500 some days raiding; which is quite sizable when you have to wait for a rtt to do things like concealment :]
I use Pblade with Masked Attack since they both have the same reuse timer. It makes sense. And I can throw in Decap most the time, its just I save that attack for named mobs or the occasional too many adds pull. And I said we do more damamge period, because I'm trying to say that rangers potentially cannot compare to assassins. Add up all of our CA damage, and figure in casting time and reuse timer, assassins are just better, and there needs to be some type of balance. By adding something like Concealment, or Mark line it would easily boost a ranger's dps a bit.
Ok so i would say its a proven fact that assasin does more dmg than ranger. If as a Ranger you are arguing that you wish you would have done more dmg than why not betray to assasin as many of you have done? The people who argue that Rangers should do same amount of dps as Assasin would be like argueing Gaurdians to do same amount of dps as Bezerker. So then you would aruge that if not than there is nothing good about this class so why play? Well ok so dunt play or just betray to assasin if you feel there is nothing good about Ranger. its simple.
No, that's not a viable option. 1. Some people WANT to be a Ranger, but STILL be viable in raids. 2. It's a way a player can avoid the problem, but avoiding a problem doesn't solve it. It's STILL a problem of class imbalance in high end raids. And that's where the problems lie, not solo, not group. Rangers have no other role then dps. And other classes bring either more of it or the same dps, but more utility to the raid. So what will Rangers bring? Your argument about 'beeing ranged is better' doesn't hold in raids, cause A) you have to be in sweet spot to get max dps (something you yourself stated) and B) the raid leader doesn't give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if you have less repair costs. What he gives a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about is that you was hanging back and doing crap dps cause you didn't joust.
Let me see if I understand this... A bezerker is the evil version of a guardian and a guardian is the good version of a berzerker. I don't think so. The relationship between a guardian and bezerker is way different than that of the Assassin/Ranger relationship. But why stop there? Why not say something like, "The people who argue that Rangers should do the same DPS as assassins would be like arguing that warlocks should be able to heal as well as a defilers."
See that makes no sense because a Guardian does somethings better then a zerker that are actually important. For one, they have more HP buffs. They also have Tower of Stone which is extremely important. They are both pretty equal in usefulness, but comparing a ranger/assassin to a zerker/guardian is pretty obsurd. What I was thinking to actually make rangers useful was to make some encounters in EoF very situational. Make it so that the mobs HAVE to be jousted, and the AE goes off frequently. Have a few of those mobs spread around EoF. While it doesn't solve all the problems rangers have, it will help out the ranger usefulness. Just a thought.
We don't WANT to be assassins. We are not evil, most of us are (at least a little) roleplayers. We played gimped Rangers in EQ1, we played Rangers in D&D AD&D and countless other games. We are not evil throat slitters, we are the masters of the hunt. Why not betray to assassin? I'd rather roll up a healer.
