Ok, really simple. Any other scout must usually be within melee distance to do there most damaging attacks. A ranger does not. A Ranger can hit 2 or 3(more if coupled with speed debuffs) times before a creature even comes within melee range. Very simple. It is the price you pay for being ranged. Now, i can understand why a whole lot of rangers are defecting over to assasins since most seam to be high level group raiders, where it doesnt matter if a ranger can get in 2 or 3 shots before entering melee range since they have tank that takes the heat and so the group doesnt require that and therefore the rangers switch to a class that can add more damage. But I read a post where a ranger said when hunting, he would reduce the targets HP down to 10-20% by the time he came within melee range. For soloing and small mobs, this is invaluble.
bah i should have just left what i had said but instead i'll just say....hmm no I guess it's best not to speak to the small minded. Message Edited by Gailstryder on 08-09-2006 01:19 AM
Assassins have 3 Ranged Attacks. 1 from Behind, 1 while Flanking, One 2 shot from Any direction. Properly fired from a 62 Assassin, A Level 65 Mob is dropped to Redline on the pull. That's before the arsenal of Melee attacks available when the mob gets there. Did I mention this is for Solo Assassins? In groups there are nifty skills like concealemnt where you can fire all of your Stealthed attacks in under 7 seconds. Option B against Solo mobs is to just stand there and Auto Attack it to death faster than a Ranger can. Rangers ARE Ranged and their Ranged abilities should match the same abilities of a Stealthed Assassin. They do not. Assassins can Literally stand still and press buttons and do more damage than a Ranger can. It is wrong. It needs to be Fixed.
Conjurors can outdps us at the same distance from the target. Conjurors solo better. Your very "special" attempt to create drama is ... Im glad that you couldnt keep that in your head. Because after all ZOmG u can PwnZor Solo Mobs FtW. Dont tell Soe or we will get nerfed.
Ignorant are we? Give me your name/class/server/level please, and I will send you a tell on what rangers actually do in fights.. Clearly you dont know, and dont even try to say otherwise. Just for the record though, rangers spend there time 90% in melee range. So dont try and tell me otherwise.
I don't know what's more disappointing, the OP being convinced that we should have to pay a figurative price for ranged DPS in addition to the literal one we pay for ammo... or the really arrogant, pissy responses to him. Lore, you really need to lighten up, man. Your attitude is getting utterly ridiculous. Maybe *you* spend 90% of your time in melee range; that doesn't mean any other ranger does or should. Please, just stop asserting your opinions as facts. And be careful throwing the word "ignorant" around after claiming that your so-called "ranger dance" (which doesn't even work) was an exploit that raised your DPS considerably, when all it really did was waste time. Do yourself a favor and relax. Stop demanding ppl's names and servers so you can send them tells to set them straight on the 'right' way to be a ranger. Can you see how arrogant and presumptuous that is? If you really want to help, OFFER to talk to someone in-game. Provide YOUR name and server to someone so they can contact you if they so desire. Would you like it if I started sending you tells to set you straight on the 'right' way to use English grammar and spelling? No, you're fine writing however you please... and the rest of us are fine playing our characters however we please.
Then all mages should have their DPS nerfed according to your theory. Btw, you're about as bright as doornail.
/agree with the above. To OP -- Everyone makes tradeoffs to do what they do. If you haven't figured it out what they are by now I'd recommend rolling an alt of the class and playing it. You'll start to see what the class is about...maybe. Falcon/Peregrian Message Edited by leafnin on 08-09-2006 07:40 AM
Not the same issue... Mages have no easy means to mitigate aggro and are squishier. The mages ability to deal damage without engaging the target is compensated by a significantly higher degree of vulnerability than the Ranger. Now even given the OPs point... which I do think has some small degree of merit... I think the gap between most Rangers and their T1 peers is too large and the cost of arrows is too great even if one were to accept the OPs point as valid. As it stands Rangers pay a fair chunk of change for their range advantage, and so one can't really say that they should pay twice for that in diminished performance. Rangers pay cash with each and every arrow shot for their ranged advantage. And Jay has a very good point. There needs to be more rational discussion and less religious certitude on this forum in my personal opinion.
I guess my stealth wasn't as good as it could be. I am really an assasin planting lies about how the ranger is ok and doesn't need to be changed. Thus ensuring that the ranger will stay weak. How diabolical. Now to answer: I am as bright as a doornail......ok I was not saying that then ranger is without fault. I don't have a high level ranger so I don't know the cost of arrows that high so that would be in fact a quite bad thing. And my entire point is that we should not be at the TOP of DPS not we should be at the lower end. Thats all. And a reply to the magic thing. There was a post made here a couple days ago where someone was complaining about not being able to fire an arrow while within melee range and made the comparison that mages can do it so why can't we. There was post after post saying that was comparing apples to oranges. Yet here it suddenly makes sense? Now if the above posted is correct in saying that an assasin can get a creature into the red before coming into melee range, then that simply is not right. They should NOT be able to do that. Believe it or not, I just posted this not to start a flame war but because I kept seeing thread after thread about how so many rangers are betraying to become assasins and how the rangers attacks arent close to an assasin. Do I think the ranger needs to be given a damage boost, yes but not to the extent of an assasin. Phew
To the OP, Most of the arguments rage around the raiding game and where Ranger DPS lies there. There are a number of classes that many believe can do as much or more damage than a Ranger, yet bring more utility to the raid. Also, the discrepancy really starts to show itself in guilds that have a good mix of classes that can build very high DPS raids up. It is here you will see Brigands (that have AoE immunity btw) hitting 14-1500 DPS along with swashies, Conjorers & Assassins (both closer to 1800 on our raids). The figures are approximate and from my guilds raids - people can take or leave them as they please). The thing that is annoying the raiding Rangers (and causing some high end guilds to stop recruiting Rangers) is that you can have Ranger damage (or better) in a number of classes that are frankly more useful. However, not all raid make ups will see this. In my previous guild my 1-1.1k DPS topped the parser most of the time - it's nowhere near enough in my current guild (even though I've improved on that figure with better gear and playstyle now). Raid guild DPS will vary - even the high end guilds have a mix of raid styles ranging from extreme DPS to a more moderate style. Also in these guilds, many mob AoE's start to become a non or very minor issue. Players can hit 7-8k specific resists so the damage is mitigated as low as possible. The healers then just top up players as required - although there are some mobs that still make you pay if you get caught. Any number of people will disagree with my last few paragraphs and the debate will rage on. All I will say that I've found it best not to make too sweeping a statement or post opinion where other posters are discussing something you might not have experienced first hand (raiding seems to be the most extreme example of this - the game changes a lot between grouping and raiding). Even if your comment are valid, when opinons are so strongly divided it migth be best to weigh in on the matters you have more experience ( I don't post on solo issues any more because I rarely solo these days f.ex). There are many people on these forums waiting to jump down your throat. Lol - I just re-read this and it sounds like a more polite version of 'Lern2play N00b, come back when you raid'. It's honestly not meant to sound like that - sigh. Mirdo.
Mirdo, you are 100% right. I apologize if my comments sounded like me trivializing your(the rangers the are uhappy) situation. In fact, looking back, I was refering to grouping and soloing, not raiding so for that again, I am sorry if I misled you. Since I don't raid, I don't comment on it. Personally, I think the best any RPG(MMO or not) of createing classes was Diablo 2. Each class brought something very useful to the table. I loved the Necromancer in that game and would love for the EQ2 necro to be like that but I digress. I am not a troll(i dont even play one in game lol)
I'm not really sure how you could have missed that the DPS issues were only with end game raiding. It is plastered all over basically every ranger DPS thread out there. Very few people in any recent time have said we are even remotely broken in a group or solo scenerio. Message Edited by Stormhawk on 08-09-2006 10:22 AM
Oh wow - Diablo II - I loved hardcore. I miss the rush you get when a mistake means you can lose weeks of work. No experience I've ever had in other RPG/MMO games close to the feeling of closely avoiding death in a permadeath game (or the empty feeling in the pit of your stomach when your pride and joy bites the dust). That said, I did like the penalties in EQ1 - not as severe as permadeath but enough to give you a scare deep in a tricky dungeon - especially if you soloed there (oh no - incoming flamewar about harsh/light death penalties) Mirdo.
