thread about T1 damage equality

Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:

you mean that one encounter that every one post parses on? how about the rest of the encounters?
i never said they where balanced, in fact this entire thread is to give the other t1 dps classes the boost they need.
not really understanding why people keep posting their QQ about beastlords here when i specificly posted in the OP that this was not a QQ thread/nerf thread.

Davngr1 wrote:

Why does it matter what encounter it is? If a BL smokes all other t1 dps by 300k on that encounter then pretty sure they will beat them all the encounters.
It is pretty clear you have no idea what you are talking about by the ideas you are suggesting.
If you boost the classes to what BL's can do then you will have 20+ mill parses and mobs will die in 2 secs. LOL. Easiest way is to "fix" BL's.

Davngr1 wrote:

- Why should Assassins, or Predators in general, only be able to "keep up" with BST ? They exchange utility for dealing dmg. BST on the other hand has the option to switch to Spiritual stance and become quite a useful utility class. See the fundamental flaw in this ?
- Int line proc...seriously...you think by changing one single ability it will change the overall dmg output so drastic ? get real...I've raided with Int spec in SF for months, compared parses to Wis and Sta line. Conclusion; if you use int line for anything outside pvp, you're doing it wrong. Poison dmg has experienced a massive inflation since at least RoK. while it was still a considerable amount of total dps output back then, it is now nothing of any sort of relevance. you're lucky if it show up as 1% of your zonewide dps.
- Don't really need any lecture about how FF works. Don't even feel like going deeper into that matter
- you want suggestions ? my first one would be to cut BST damage output by 50%. No reason for them to do more damage then Enchanters or bards. But since you don't want nerfs, here's some options how to set things back on track:
Predators: double the autoattack multiplier, main selfbuffs granting a base 50% potency/Crit bonus
Rogues: Main Selfbuff grants 50CB/Pot
Sorcerors: 15% spell double atk, 50%CB/Pot
Summoners: 5% SDA, 25% CB/Pot, stats shared with pet

Yep, looking at those numbers, i'm sure the genious who came up with the whole BST concept would be proud. Of course it would be much easier and not game destroying to just FIX BST instead of boosting everyone else, but hey...

Proud_Silence wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong here, but...
Wasn't CLASS BALANCE the all encompassing reason we were given why BLs would never be added?
How's that working out?
Sad to see that many customers desirability and relative performance were harmed by SOE pandering to the crowd and going for the easy money grab with BLs.
As with a lot of things though, they failed to quite think it through, or to do the job right the first time, and now are left with a bucket of stuff that they can't help but put a stick in and stir.
They are now in a position where they must either make AoD buying, BL playing, customers unhappy, leave other customers whose classes are ridicuoulsy outshined unhappy, or break the game to make everyone happy.
Tough nut to crack, but the RIGHT solution to balance BLs back to where they need to be in each of their stances. "Offensive" stance on the low-middle end of T1, "defensive" stance back with the rest of the utility pack.

Kenazeer wrote:

This, reiterated for truthiness.

Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:

so can warlocks put up insane damage on all encounters because they can do it on ae encounters?
your logic is flawed.

i have seen beastlord parses and yes they are a head of the pack but not nearly as drastic as the QQ on this forum.

Proud_Silence wrote:

devs will never make those changes and that's a good thing because everything you suggest is braindead faceroll damage increases.
i suggest adding different mechanics to boost damage IF the player is willing to put forth the effort.


edit.
to add that letting poison critical again is another way to boost non-beastlord scouts.

oh and would like to add that if there's a beastlord in my assassins group, he gets toxins because i want to increase our groups dps not nerf it.

Would love to see the pet AA added to summoner pets. Seems like there is some interesting interaction with BL pets that adds to the play style - would love to see all these BL enhancements to gameplay make its way over to other pet classes. Maybe make scout classes a viable option.
The OP is pro-actively trying to stave off some massive nerf by suggesting some minor enhancements to other classes as if that will solve the problem. Sorry bro - nerf incoming - tho like most said it'll likely be awhile so enjoy while you've got it.

Davngr1 wrote:

Proud_Silence wrote:

look guy..

you seem like one of those "i'm so 1337" raiderzzz types..

yes, beastlord isn't any harder to play than other dps classes but it's not any easier and yes i do agree that they are doing too much damage over other T1 classes.
the reason i made this thread is because i rather them stay right where they are and other dps classes get new toys because new abilities and way to tweak out my damage classes is fun.

to all you "i'm so 1337" raiderzzzz posting your "you don't know I KNOW" b*llS**t..
uhmm.. the beastlords doing this insane damage have MYTHICAL WEAPONS no other class in game right now has those and when they do i'm sure they will catch up but even with mythical weapons for all, other T1 classes need a boost and actually i think summoners should just be T1 as well since they don't really offer that much more utility than anyone or anything else.

Davngr1 wrote:

Nonsense: Beastlord is definitely easier to play than Swashie or Brigand, since you have far fewer positionals or attacks requiring stealth. There isn't a single thing justifying BL DPS .... except for SOE's desire to not anger those who bought AoD strictly for the BL.
You need to face a simple fact about EQ2 game balance: historically, SOE has never, ever, ever buffed up other classes. They have always nerfed the ones which stand out. There's a good reason for this: if you buff up the other classes, you're buffing them past the content. It's thus much easier, & more sensible, to nerf the class which is standing out. Thus, it is almost inevietable that BLs will be nerfed, & since that's true, it ought to happen sooner than later.

Freejazzlive wrote:

Wish I could do nothing but faceroll my keyboard and watch for jousts or go AFK and auto attack only on my BL and hit the same kind of numbers on my comparably geared brig, swash, and assassin.

Beastlords are actually the hardest class to play and get high dps number by far, you have to remember the people pulling those big parses have gmed all their pets which probably takes about twice what it takes to get 320 aa maybe even 3 times.
also most of our big primals and advantages all require positioning or stealth and managing your feral rampage level vs the drain takes paying constant attention to your savagry levels.

The other thing is people are whining about 700 or 800k dps beastlords on that burn fight when I have seen an assassin hit 900k on that same fight when everyone puts their dps buffs on them, that fight is not a realistic test of a classes dps.
Like any other classes beastlords have flaws as well, the most noticable that any class can out dps at ranged even an assassin with half the gear a beastlord has would outdps him on a ranged fight. They also have no aoe dps abilities to speak of that dont require savagry where again any other class even an assassin will outdamage a beastlord on aoe fights. The other thing is that beastlords require their pet to be alive to do damage which takes a lot of micro managing on any fight with aoes or cures since they get no pet cure.
Your talking about parses on a fight thats cherry picked for beastlord dps thats never a reliable parsing fight anyways because if you put all your dps buffs on one dpser of course their going to have insane dps that fight.
Of course they parse high on purely single target fight that is not aoe heavy so they do not have to worry about their pet as much. If you look at the average raid fight beastlords rank pretty evenly with the other dps classes with them being lower or lowest on multiple mob fights or fights where there is a lot of aoe damage with them shining on single target dps where they can stay in close constantly.

Freejazzlive wrote:

maybe the utility can't be justified but the damage is acceptable as long other dps classes get a some new abilities to be brought up to BL current level.
brigs aren't any harder to play than BL or any other scout/mage. they all play differently and the fact that you can absolutly screw up and parse terribad is proof that they aren't a face roll class. gear/buffs being equal of course since gear is so dam overpowerd right now.

The thing is it is mainly on kolskeggr and gunnr where beastlords parse abnormally high 90% of the endgame fights beastlords are perfectly balanced and parse evenly with other dps depending on the fights mechanics

The other thing is the other classes should get their mythical upgrade in april when dov part 2 comes out, thats one reason beastlords parse better than the other classes is because they have a much better weapon.
Also just because a beastlord parsed 900k and the next person was 700k that tells you nothing, what buffs did the bl have what buffs did the second class have did the mob have high magic resist, most of the parses you see on eq2flames are artifially inflated by having the person in an ideal group for them with the best buffs on them.

Funny when two monthes ago i claimed that my BL test was ridiculously OP people denied.
Raising other t1 dps will raise issues : agro , non t1 classes lagging backward etc ....
Except ajusting all classes i don't see a solution, Tuning down Blord would be way easier.

Davngr1 wrote:

It's more difficult to screw up as a BL than as a Brigand. The class is simply too versatile & too powerful for itself.
I'm willing to concede that a level 90 BL is probably more difficult than a level 40 BL, but I'm having an extremely hard time believing that it's "the hardest class to play," as another poster claimed.

Davngr1 wrote:

SOE does not, historically, respond to an OP class by buffing similar classes. I've already explained why they don't, & why it's not even a good idea to do so.
Instead, SOE has historically responded to OP classes by nerfing the OP class, & that is almost certainly what will be done with BL "soon."

Gorock@Storms wrote:

BL's aren't that far ahead. dev's just made it way too easy to get good weapons/gear as a beastlord by making it part of their epic quest and giving them mythical weapons from a mob that is currently being killed.
i'm almost certain that with these small changes and or with other "new abilities" other t1 classes would fall in line.
i'm not totally against all the other classes getting some new stuff as well since in fact it has been a year since the last AA were added.
Freejazzlive wrote:

wrong.. soe usually nerfs said classes and boost all the others at the same time and that should not happen to beastlords.

Davngr1 wrote:

Maybe that should not happen to BL but we know its going to one way or another .