Xil wrote: Nope just asked him to check the item because it wasnt procing right and if it was suppose to proc on any temp pets also..........good try tho kid. And you still cant comprehend fix verse nerf or recovery verse recast or 2 times per min equalls 10 pct or.....damm this might take awhile.
I can't understand why you guys would beg the devs for another summoner nerf. I'm starting to think that you people like having no utility and horrible DPS so that you have something to gripe about for attention. I would love for our class to actually be worthy of a raid slot. Thank Xil and Hellfire for this one.
And now the kid comments come out? Why would you tell the class dev that the robe is broken in the first place? And knowing full well that the robe isn't proc'ing at 100% why would that dev say "oops my bad I set to 100%" You and your friend accuse me and others of ruining it for you but you go straight to the dev yourself and say "hey look at this ruined robe (that I happen to love and don't want fixed), look how broken it is you better fix it" -hellfire Seriously, why would you do that? To win an argument? They have a whole section on flames something like Rate a... (what's the word), that would be perfect for this little display. "OMG someone told people the robe procs more than it's supposed to they are so /fail. But I showed them I went straight to the dev and told them it was broken and now it's getting nerfed." - hellfire "Did I mention I called them a kid and made fun of them about how much smarter than them I are? /win" -hellfire You win. Seriously. It looks like we have you to thank for this epic win and on behalf of all summoner everywhere, I thank you. Seriously man you win the argument congradulations.
Xil wrote: Hi he isnt the class dev he is the item dev and that would be the person to bring broken item issues to. The item does proc close to 100 pct ...the info in previous post shows this as well as info from other players.....unless you are the only one that uses this special math and i think you are ...because you are the only person out there that views 80-120 pct proc rate depending on spell normilization would equall 15 pct. And i already told you why...because all that the broken robe was doing is hideing the the class issues that we have...you think bumping our dps by 20 pct from a broken item was a good thing?This is still something you dont want to admit/ and refuse to even acknowlege . Im very sorry all of these things are still to hard for you to grasp. And ive won this argument from my first post........ so nothing epic about it....preety much one sided if you ask me.
hellfire wrote: It adds 500DPS lol. To our mage pet. Even in a 3 mob encounter with full caster buffs it only added 1k DPS out of 9k DPS in a 9:33 second fight against a linked encounter of 3 mobs. If 1k is 20% of your DPS on linked mobs you should be ashamed of yourself. lol Yer in Confirmed with teir 4 gear and a mythical for christ's sakes. I've seen conjy with absolute garbage gear compared to yours doing over 20k on linked encounters. Seriously where do you come up with this stuff? And why do you keep sighting other posters sources? Just run ACT and parse it. It doesn't proc anywhere close to 100%. Scout pet and Fighter pet only proc it at 10%. The Mage pet procs max about 25%. The problem is directly linked to the Mage pet not the actual Proc itself. But if you haven't run ACT on all the pets you wouldn't know that... Even if you look at the parses posted here you can plainly see it's not procing at 100%. So why keep insisting it does? The damage "hits twice" and is AE if the attack used is AE so it can hit twice for every availible target, even if you were to include that double hit in your evaluation it would only be at 50% proc rate MAX. And the power proc only hits once per actual proc no matter if it's an AE hit or not. Just run ACT and see for yourself. ACT tells you everything you need to know about it. Unless the guys who put ACT together don't know their Math either... Dude thanks for the laugh though.
Xil wrote: Hi i have had itbetween 2.5-3k dps but thanks for playing. And that 1200 out of what 7k was you........ not 20 pct but preety close. what other poster sources? most all act posts on this site is from me......scroll up i even did most of the math for you and showed ya depending if used normalized spell casting or not the proc rate is 80-120 pct and if useing normalized casting which everything in game is based on includeing procs...it is procing 100 pct.
Here's what that silly ACT program has to say about Potent. I hope their math is ok because lord knows the guys who designed ACT probably half all kinds of issues with math... This is the total damage done by potent on a 25 minute fight with the pet fully on a linked 3 mob encounter the whole time, while I was killing books.... Here's how many times the Power Regen Proc'd on that same fight. Which is also the actual number of procs from Potent for the "entire" 25 minutes. So we can see that over 25 minutes of sustained casting on 3 linked mobs Potent added 1025DPS. So about 340 DPS to each target. And we can see that over that 25 minutes of sustained casting Potent proc'd power regen 405 total times. Since potent only procs power regen once per proc whether or not the proc is AE or single target we see Potent has in fact only proc'd a total of 405 times in 25 minutes. Any questions?
Xil wrote: Good that is about 16 proc p;er min with 1 proc a min = roughly 5 pct chance....thats 80 pct proc right...so do you have any questions? edit: actually 10 pct = 1.8 times a min so its actually about 90 pct proc chance...damm close to 100 .
Xil wrote: At this point I am 99% sure you are trolling but anyway: I have a parse sitting in front of (dunno how to post it), which clearly shows potent essence infusion proccing off EVERY SPELL, THAT IS A 100% PROC RATE. IT PROCS EVERY TIME THE PET CASTS A SPELL HOW MUCH CLEARER DOES IT NEED TO BE IT PROCS EVERY TIME A PET OR SWARM PET USES A COMBAT ART. THIS IS WHY THE PROC RATE APPEARS DIFFERENT FOR MELEE PETS BECAUSE IT DOES NOT PROC OFF AUTO ATTACKS. In conclusion I sincerely hope that you are trolling because i don't want to believe someone as stupid as you actually exists.
Cicadian wrote: Actually it does proc off auto attack. Imps proc it and Scout/Tank auto attacks proc it. As does Mage pet Auto Attack. And the parse posted previously that shows the timeline, very CLEARLY, shows that Potent does not proc on every spell cast. As does this post I showed you. Out of the 25 minutes of combat it procs 16 times in a minute (with considerable spell haste) which is quite a bit less than the Mage pet casts per minute. And 2.0 times per minute is 10% chance to proc a spell that takes 3 seconds total to use. As most of the Mage pet's spells take more than 3 seconds to cast and recover from that % chance is actually higher than 10%. But since I'm a troll that is all hogwash right?
This thread delivers! My favorite part is where Xil suggests that the math aditu uses in ACT is wrong and now claiming it was Bigron that has made a big deal about the robe leading to it's impending fix. Regardless, hopefully all this active discussion will lead to some dev attention to the summoner archtype. The 'fix' to the class certainly wasn' t this robe. Self-pwnage is very fun to watch.
Xil wrote: Actually 1.8 time a min.And if something is set as a percentage to proc it still follows the normalized casting so the faster your spells are to cast base wise the less chance to proc.....unless there is no pct to each cast then its just set to proc off each spell cast.Also there is a curve verse higher level mobs that goes against spells/procs thats why you can have 100 pct crit your self and not crit 100 pct of time verse mobs higher level then you.....and you actually need 108 pct crit to crit 100 pct of time verse high orange mobs........but wait why should i even be telling you this ...this is all stuff im sure you know and took into account ...correct? Also there is about 12 pct resists on the proc......seems lots of variables witch seems to be normal and changes nothing in my previous posts.
I believe that says 2.0 does it not? I also believe that says "A successful attack" and specifically says if a melee attack procs this (which means yes melee attacks proc this) that only the primary weapon can trigger the effect. Unless of course I have fergotten how to read as well as do math... Method = "Base" Spell Cast + Recovery divided by 3 (the control value) mutliplied by the PPM divded by 20 (the control value) Increasing cast speed and recovery through buffs and equipment does not alter the method. So a spell that has a "BASE" combined 3 seconds of spell cast and recovery would be: (3/3) * (2.0/20) = .10 or 10% Any spell that had a larger combined "BASE" spell cast and recovery time would have slighty higher % chance to proc the effect. And another curious thing I have noticed is the actual Damage dealt is lower than the tooltip suggests as well as the power regen'd per tick. Well that is assuming of course ACT is accurate... Where the damage can be explained away by resists and mitigation verses those two types of damage, the power proc cannot. So it appears they have already been adjusting this silently...And if that's true this issues with this Item are already well known and have been for long enough for them to have adjusted it long before this thread was even created. Just FYI
Xil wrote: A successfull attack means only melee .....so obviously they didnt it to be proccing off spells. recovery is added to every spell witch would be .5 added to each....so 3 secs +.5 im pretty sure......hence why 1.8 equalls 10 pct because of recovery values. Regen is lower cause if your aT 100 pct power then you are not regening power...there is nothing to regen...im not 100 pct sure on this...or actually your mental resists may actually be midigateing the amount of power you are reciveing and that would be another bug.
Actually upon further testing it seems i was wrong about the spells/cas thing. It def procs off auto attack. Tested by possessing pet and just auto attacking and it still procced. However, it does seem to proc more often the more CAs/Spells the pet uses and less often the more it auto-attacks. So the myth procs it to a ridiculous degree but the scout/tank pets do it less often (but still too much). Similarly, pyro procs it a whole bunch more often than aqueous serpents.
Cicadian wrote: I couldn't get the scout or the tank to proc more than 11% on the training wall. And that's pretty much where the proc is supposed to be. So if they go and adjust the proc based on the Mage/Mythical proc rate it will completely hose the summoner using Scout Pets out of any benefit to using the robe at all. And really the added DPS to the Mage pet or even the Mythical pet is small. The only issue with it is the power regen. The fact that it procs so much is a matter of semantics. It may proc too often but the effect is not overpowering to the summoner as summoner sits right now. It still falls quite short of the static DPS mark we should be seeing from our pets. I mean cry foul all you want about the tooltip. That's just semantics. What matters is the other end. Is it overpowering? No. Does it throw off archetype balance? What balance summoner is so hosed you could give them an IWIN button and you'd still have trouble getting a raid spot over that 4th enchanter, or even a group spot for that matter without a troubador in it. So why bother fixing it before summoner get reworked? Doesn't seem to be a valid reason to at all. Unless you exagerate the effectiveness of the robe loud enough that people start saying "hey that's not fair"... There would never be a reason to "fix" it. But that's where your part in this adventure comes in. Do you want to be right? Or do you want all summoners to be able to keep this little tiny bone that was thrown to us? It's up to you. The proc is a known issue. And has yet to be dealt with because people aren't making noise about it. Because it's not overpowering in any way. Do you really want to be the ones who make the noise about it and screw everyone over including yourself? Do you want to be the ones who convince others that the proc is some kind of god mode by exagerating its effectiveness? I don't think you do. I think you are just pre-occupied with being right. And when you're arguing about semantics no one ever wins. So you'll never be right anyway... This argument is a lose lose. Maybe it's time to see that and end it?
Xil wrote: lol.. Xil was it not you who posted parses with it? yes the robe is broken, yes one item should not balance a class, yes summoners could have taken advantage from this item till the next LU maybe longer but Xil ruined that for summoenrs.
Xil wrote: So an item that is doing 10x more dps than your next best proc is not over powered? And add that it does more power regen than anything else in the game. It's effect on your own personal dps and the effect on the groups power is more than any other single item in the game including any avatar drop I have seen linked. And it's bought off a merchant!!!! Sounds pretty powerful to me. I dont think you understand the word 'semantics'. Don't try to cover up the fact that you are wrong by saying it's semantics. It is no mystery how proc's work. There is no semantics, there is no interpretation. Procs on A successful attack 1.8 x / min has a very defined meaning and that meaning has been defined explicitely for us. You are claiming the item is not broken and not overpowered... everyone else is saying it is overpoweredly broken.... no one is arguing over semantics. I think most of us are pre-occupied with accuracy and a correct representation of the issues summoners face... not with being right. They will fix it eventually. The reason they haven't fixed it yet is until this thread (and the spell vs scout damage thread in combat section) no one was making a big deal about it. They will fix it earlier because of YOU. It wont be tomorrow... or even next week but it will certainly be earlier because of YOU. It took them 1 year to fix overloaded heals (a overpowered healer item). no one made a stink about it and all classes benefited (though not equally). Summoners will not be so lucky.
Enoa@Kithicor wrote: And semantics: the meaning of a word, phrase, sentence, or text; "a petty argument about semantics" No matter what the tool tip says the "application" of the item in question is where you determine what is overpowered and what is not. And if you would have even botherd to read even this one "whole" post you'd see that I suggested clearly that the power regen should be reduced but the damage added to the static DPS of the mage pet doesn't need to be adjusted because it is only a small amount that doesn't affect the top end. And actually they are fixing it because Bigron aka hellfire went straight to the item dev and told them it was procing 100% and giving us unlimited power and that it needs to be fixed right now. Otherwise it woulda been left alone. Incase you missed the previous posts in this thread. hellfire tells you exactly what he did to get this robe nerfed as soon as possible. I know just blurting responses is much easier when you see something in a post you don't like. But read back a little. It might enlighten you.
