New Robe = New Love

ARCHIVED-Xil · Jan 18, 2009

Enoa@Kithicor wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“Because most people realise that the 4 people here total that spend all their time flaming me are just forum trolls that know how to avoid breaking the rules.
And they also actually read through a posts and consider the context before they post things because they don't have an insane and overwhelming desire to prove other people wrong to validate their existance as somehow useful...
But by all means flame away. No one is listening anyway right. heh”

Flaming you? You mean correcting you. No no correcting me would have been fine. But picking out a small piece of info and using it to discredit an entire post and any previous previous post is trolling and flaming. It's also a logical fallacy.
It would be like if I described to you how to adjust the timing belt on your car to increase miles per gallon and accidentally said your car was red instead of green, and by making that mistake you take the entire conversation and nullify it as false because the car isn't red it's green so therefor I must be wrong about everything else I said as well. That would be kinda stupid of you wouldn't it. Hence the whole fallacy thing.
What if someone who actually reads these forums is trying to learn something about how this game works and they read that POM procs on every dot tic. It would be wrong to not correct that. think of all the things you've learned this week. HOw procs work. how POM works. How to calculate what a proc rate is. What Frigid Gift is. How Proc's Dont Proc Procs. That dots dont proc POM on every tic. Anything taken out of context can be made to be whatever you want it to be. POM procing on dot ticks was actually from the mouth of an Illusionist. I just repeated it because I figured they had some reason to believe it did or would not have said it... Maybe it was broken and they fixed it?
And last week you learned the difference between base damage and spell damage in regards to the Gold Tempered Mask. The proc adds 10% now. It only applied to +spell damage before TSO and that made it kinda useless. Now it applies to the entire pool. SO... that means "you" just learned something too right?
You've been helped considerably i would say. Yet you claim to be flamed and you wrongly accuse Bigron of doctoring a parse... and when you were proven wrong, yet again, you dont admit it or appologize. I accused him of fixing it which is completely true. I asked for a parse of the actual DPS the Proc adds to his DPS and instead he posted what the proc adds to DPS when altered by every availible caster buff in the game on an 8 mob linked encounter. Hense the whole "It says cold damage" thing. So in fact he did "fix" the parse to show much higher results that what I was suggesting. In order to win an argument he "fixed" the parse to discredit my assesment.
And you've told multipe people in the necro forums to Learn2Play Actually that was just Dav... and that was in direct response to previous flaming when clearly they have more knowledge of game mechanics than you. That might count as flaming and trolling no? Knowledge and application are two different things... That's why they say teachers teach because they cannot "do"...
I'm not sure what context you are referring to... everyones on the same page but you. Everyone is 4 people? Well 5 now including you? That's kinda sad...”

ARCHIVED-Necrodeath79 · Jan 18, 2009

OK, please, oh please, stop Xil we get it we get it, you got a new video game and your parents just let ya move the computer to your room so your excited to post all your new ideas and see how high you can get your post count.
Please post when you have something new to add to this thread about the robe, I have had just about enough of coming here only to see another "Oh poor me" post from you.
Can we all stop posting about the robe? Its broken and its getting fixed, lets move on to hopefully getting the class touched up.
pest

ARCHIVED-Xil · Jan 18, 2009

Necrodeath79 wrote:

“OK, please, oh please, stop Xil we get it we get it, you got a new video game and your parents just let ya move the computer to your room so your excited to post all your new ideas and see how high you can get your post count.
Please post when you have something new to add to this thread about the robe, I have had just about enough of coming here only to see another "Oh poor me" post from you.
Can we all stop posting about the robe? Its broken and its getting fixed, lets move on to hopefully getting the class touched up.
pest”

But if I don't give you something to flame you'd have no reason to post at all pest and I don't want you to feel left out...

ARCHIVED-Sabutai · Jan 18, 2009

Xil wrote:

“Enoa@Kithicor wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“Because most people realise that the 4 people here total that spend all their time flaming me are just forum trolls that know how to avoid breaking the rules.
And they also actually read through a posts and consider the context before they post things because they don't have an insane and overwhelming desire to prove other people wrong to validate their existance as somehow useful...
But by all means flame away. No one is listening anyway right. heh”

Flaming you? You mean correcting you. No no correcting me would have been fine. But picking out a small piece of info and using it to discredit an entire post and any previous previous post is trolling and flaming. It's also a logical fallacy.
It would be like if I described to you how to adjust the timing belt on your car to increase miles per gallon and accidentally said your car was red instead of green, and by making that mistake you take the entire conversation and nullify it as false because the car isn't red it's green so therefor I must be wrong about everything else I said as well. That would be kinda stupid of you wouldn't it. Hence the whole fallacy thing.
What if someone who actually reads these forums is trying to learn something about how this game works and they read that POM procs on every dot tic. It would be wrong to not correct that. think of all the things you've learned this week. HOw procs work. how POM works. How to calculate what a proc rate is. What Frigid Gift is. How Proc's Dont Proc Procs. That dots dont proc POM on every tic. Anything taken out of context can be made to be whatever you want it to be. POM procing on dot ticks was actually from the mouth of an Illusionist. I just repeated it because I figured they had some reason to believe it did or would not have said it... Maybe it was broken and they fixed it?
And last week you learned the difference between base damage and spell damage in regards to the Gold Tempered Mask. The proc adds 10% now. It only applied to +spell damage before TSO and that made it kinda useless. Now it applies to the entire pool. SO... that means "you" just learned something too right?
You've been helped considerably i would say. Yet you claim to be flamed and you wrongly accuse Bigron of doctoring a parse... and when you were proven wrong, yet again, you dont admit it or appologize. I accused him of fixing it which is completely true. I asked for a parse of the actual DPS the Proc adds to his DPS and instead he posted what the proc adds to DPS when altered by every availible caster buff in the game on an 8 mob linked encounter. Hense the whole "It says cold damage" thing. So in fact he did "fix" the parse to show much higher results that what I was suggesting. In order to win an argument he "fixed" the parse to discredit my assesment.
And you've told multipe people in the necro forums to Learn2Play Actually that was just Dav... and that was in direct response to previous flaming when clearly they have more knowledge of game mechanics than you. That might count as flaming and trolling no? Knowledge and application are two different things... That's why they say teachers teach because they cannot "do"...
I'm not sure what context you are referring to... everyones on the same page but you. Everyone is 4 people? Well 5 now including you? That's kinda sad...”

”

how can you 'fix a parse'? The only thing that would change how much dps this robe does is from raid debuffs. The cold dmg on the parse is listed because wizards turn their group members spell dmg into cold, it doesn't add anything to it. And as far as I know there are no items that a summoner can wear that increases the base dmg to the pet which is where the damage is coming from.
Also advocating that the damage on this is adequate is just a farse. We actually WANT the class fixed, and when the devs look at the damage logs from summoners they will see overall numbers without digging more, so WANTING this item fixed brings the problems to the forefront more readily then them digging for the information.
The thing about wanting gear to fix the class is also wrong whoever posted that. We don't want gear to fix the class we want our gear to effect our pets which is a mechanic issue not a gear one. Fixing it with broken items like this just cover up the real issue which is gear scaling and pet dps.

ARCHIVED-de lorian · Jan 18, 2009

Xil wrote:

“The proc does a max of 408 damage and that's when it crits. That's it. Summoner debuffs already put the damage we do at the cap in herioc content without extra debuffs.
I'm not missing anything. It's a static 350 to 400 DPS per target no matter what the circumstances are. Doesn't matter if you have your mythical and are in a perfectly stacked mage group with perfect overlapping debuffs and all the spell haste in the world. The spell hits for a max of 408 damage per target and can only proc (even at the fabled 100%) as many times as our pet's slow a$s spells can cast and refreash.
There's no twisting of logic here. It's straight forward absolute fact.
Look at the parses. Parse if yourself. It's completely impossible to do any more than that. The garbage about 14 to 20% of our DPS was from the Mage pet Parsing BY ITSELF on a linked encounter wich multiplies all the damage done by each target present. 20% of our MAGE PET's DAMAGE low and behold is about 350 to 400 DPS. Wierd how it all works when you actually look at it and not at the people posting garbage...”

Xil wrote:

“I accused him of fixing it which is completely true. I asked for a parse of the actual DPS the Proc adds to his DPS and instead he posted what the proc adds to DPS when altered by every availible caster buff in the game on an 8 mob linked encounter. Hense the whole "It says cold damage" thing. So in fact he did "fix" the parse to show much higher results that what I was suggesting. In order to win an argument he "fixed" the parse to discredit my assesment.”

ARCHIVED-Xil · Jan 18, 2009

Charayne@Kithicor wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“The proc does a max of 408 damage and that's when it crits. That's it. Summoner debuffs already put the damage we do at the cap in herioc content without extra debuffs.
I'm not missing anything. It's a static 350 to 400 DPS per target no matter what the circumstances are. Doesn't matter if you have your mythical and are in a perfectly stacked mage group with perfect overlapping debuffs and all the spell haste in the world. The spell hits for a max of 408 damage per target and can only proc (even at the fabled 100%) as many times as our pet's slow a$s spells can cast and refreash.
There's no twisting of logic here. It's straight forward absolute fact.
Look at the parses. Parse if yourself. It's completely impossible to do any more than that. The garbage about 14 to 20% of our DPS was from the Mage pet Parsing BY ITSELF on a linked encounter wich multiplies all the damage done by each target present. 20% of our MAGE PET's DAMAGE low and behold is about 350 to 400 DPS. Wierd how it all works when you actually look at it and not at the people posting garbage...”

Yeah 408 was the max on the power regen not the damage my bad.
But you're still doing the same thing again. The total hit was wrong but the DPS is absolutley correct. So you can take the fact that I replaced the max hit on the power regen with the max hit on the damage and use that to ignore everything else like a moron.
Or you can focus on the intent of the post rather than a simple dislexic mistake.”

ARCHIVED-Xil · Jan 18, 2009

Sabutai wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“Enoa@Kithicor wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“Because most people realise that the 4 people here total that spend all their time flaming me are just forum trolls that know how to avoid breaking the rules.
And they also actually read through a posts and consider the context before they post things because they don't have an insane and overwhelming desire to prove other people wrong to validate their existance as somehow useful...
But by all means flame away. No one is listening anyway right. heh”

Flaming you? You mean correcting you. No no correcting me would have been fine. But picking out a small piece of info and using it to discredit an entire post and any previous previous post is trolling and flaming. It's also a logical fallacy.
It would be like if I described to you how to adjust the timing belt on your car to increase miles per gallon and accidentally said your car was red instead of green, and by making that mistake you take the entire conversation and nullify it as false because the car isn't red it's green so therefor I must be wrong about everything else I said as well. That would be kinda stupid of you wouldn't it. Hence the whole fallacy thing.
What if someone who actually reads these forums is trying to learn something about how this game works and they read that POM procs on every dot tic. It would be wrong to not correct that. think of all the things you've learned this week. HOw procs work. how POM works. How to calculate what a proc rate is. What Frigid Gift is. How Proc's Dont Proc Procs. That dots dont proc POM on every tic. Anything taken out of context can be made to be whatever you want it to be. POM procing on dot ticks was actually from the mouth of an Illusionist. I just repeated it because I figured they had some reason to believe it did or would not have said it... Maybe it was broken and they fixed it?
And last week you learned the difference between base damage and spell damage in regards to the Gold Tempered Mask. The proc adds 10% now. It only applied to +spell damage before TSO and that made it kinda useless. Now it applies to the entire pool. SO... that means "you" just learned something too right?
You've been helped considerably i would say. Yet you claim to be flamed and you wrongly accuse Bigron of doctoring a parse... and when you were proven wrong, yet again, you dont admit it or appologize. I accused him of fixing it which is completely true. I asked for a parse of the actual DPS the Proc adds to his DPS and instead he posted what the proc adds to DPS when altered by every availible caster buff in the game on an 8 mob linked encounter. Hense the whole "It says cold damage" thing. So in fact he did "fix" the parse to show much higher results that what I was suggesting. In order to win an argument he "fixed" the parse to discredit my assesment.
And you've told multipe people in the necro forums to Learn2Play Actually that was just Dav... and that was in direct response to previous flaming when clearly they have more knowledge of game mechanics than you. That might count as flaming and trolling no? Knowledge and application are two different things... That's why they say teachers teach because they cannot "do"...
I'm not sure what context you are referring to... everyones on the same page but you. Everyone is 4 people? Well 5 now including you? That's kinda sad...”

”

how can you 'fix a parse'? The only thing that would change how much dps this robe does is from raid debuffs. The cold dmg on the parse is listed because wizards turn their group members spell dmg into cold, it doesn't add anything to it. And as far as I know there are no items that a summoner can wear that increases the base dmg to the pet which is where the damage is coming from. There are several items that increase the base damage of the pet now including but not limited to the TSO set shoulders both legendary and fabled. There are also buffs that change the crit amount as well. Further skewing the results.
Also advocating that the damage on this is adequate is just a farse. Actually I suggested that it wasn't even close to adequate so removing it served no purpose. It's about 350 to 400DPS for summoner that aren't in top tier content with top tier buffs, debuffs, gear, AA's, and 8 mob AE encounters, skewing the output. Our pets do about half the DPS they should anyway right? So the added 350 to 400 DPS of static damage on to them didn't hurt anything. It was the only bandaid TSO offered until a real fix could be worked out.
We actually WANT the class fixed, and when the devs look at the damage logs from summoners they will see overall numbers without digging more, so WANTING this item fixed brings the problems to the forefront more readily then them digging for the information.
The thing about wanting gear to fix the class is also wrong whoever posted that. We don't want gear to fix the class we want our gear to effect our pets which is a mechanic issue not a gear one. Fixing it with broken items like this just cover up the real issue which is gear scaling and pet dps.”

It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parse
Nobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:
Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway.
And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.
So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.
The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.
There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.

ARCHIVED-hellfire · Jan 18, 2009

Xil wrote:

“Charayne@Kithicor wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“The proc does a max of 408 damage and that's when it crits. That's it. Summoner debuffs already put the damage we do at the cap in herioc content without extra debuffs.
I'm not missing anything. It's a static 350 to 400 DPS per target no matter what the circumstances are. Doesn't matter if you have your mythical and are in a perfectly stacked mage group with perfect overlapping debuffs and all the spell haste in the world. The spell hits for a max of 408 damage per target and can only proc (even at the fabled 100%) as many times as our pet's slow a$s spells can cast and refreash.
There's no twisting of logic here. It's straight forward absolute fact.
Look at the parses. Parse if yourself. It's completely impossible to do any more than that. The garbage about 14 to 20% of our DPS was from the Mage pet Parsing BY ITSELF on a linked encounter wich multiplies all the damage done by each target present. 20% of our MAGE PET's DAMAGE low and behold is about 350 to 400 DPS. Wierd how it all works when you actually look at it and not at the people posting garbage...”

Yeah 408 was the max on the power regen not the damage my bad.
But you're still doing the same thing again. The total hit was wrong but the DPS is absolutley correct. So you can take the fact that I replaced the max hit on the power regen with the max hit on the damage and use that to ignore everything else like a moron.
Or you can focus on the intent of the post rather than a simple dislexic mistake.”

”

False again... you havent learned yet?do you want the target dummy parse with no buffs or single target raid parse or what.........everything is already in this and the other thread but you seem either blind or stupid...im not sure which it is...
Just stop with lies and misinformation tho...the joke is over .

ARCHIVED-hellfire · Jan 18, 2009

Xil wrote:

“Sabutai wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“Enoa@Kithicor wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“Because most people realise that the 4 people here total that spend all their time flaming me are just forum trolls that know how to avoid breaking the rules.
And they also actually read through a posts and consider the context before they post things because they don't have an insane and overwhelming desire to prove other people wrong to validate their existance as somehow useful...
But by all means flame away. No one is listening anyway right. heh”

Flaming you? You mean correcting you. No no correcting me would have been fine. But picking out a small piece of info and using it to discredit an entire post and any previous previous post is trolling and flaming. It's also a logical fallacy.
It would be like if I described to you how to adjust the timing belt on your car to increase miles per gallon and accidentally said your car was red instead of green, and by making that mistake you take the entire conversation and nullify it as false because the car isn't red it's green so therefor I must be wrong about everything else I said as well. That would be kinda stupid of you wouldn't it. Hence the whole fallacy thing.
What if someone who actually reads these forums is trying to learn something about how this game works and they read that POM procs on every dot tic. It would be wrong to not correct that. think of all the things you've learned this week. HOw procs work. how POM works. How to calculate what a proc rate is. What Frigid Gift is. How Proc's Dont Proc Procs. That dots dont proc POM on every tic. Anything taken out of context can be made to be whatever you want it to be. POM procing on dot ticks was actually from the mouth of an Illusionist. I just repeated it because I figured they had some reason to believe it did or would not have said it... Maybe it was broken and they fixed it?
And last week you learned the difference between base damage and spell damage in regards to the Gold Tempered Mask. The proc adds 10% now. It only applied to +spell damage before TSO and that made it kinda useless. Now it applies to the entire pool. SO... that means "you" just learned something too right?
You've been helped considerably i would say. Yet you claim to be flamed and you wrongly accuse Bigron of doctoring a parse... and when you were proven wrong, yet again, you dont admit it or appologize. I accused him of fixing it which is completely true. I asked for a parse of the actual DPS the Proc adds to his DPS and instead he posted what the proc adds to DPS when altered by every availible caster buff in the game on an 8 mob linked encounter. Hense the whole "It says cold damage" thing. So in fact he did "fix" the parse to show much higher results that what I was suggesting. In order to win an argument he "fixed" the parse to discredit my assesment.
And you've told multipe people in the necro forums to Learn2Play Actually that was just Dav... and that was in direct response to previous flaming when clearly they have more knowledge of game mechanics than you. That might count as flaming and trolling no? Knowledge and application are two different things... That's why they say teachers teach because they cannot "do"...
I'm not sure what context you are referring to... everyones on the same page but you. Everyone is 4 people? Well 5 now including you? That's kinda sad...”

”

how can you 'fix a parse'? The only thing that would change how much dps this robe does is from raid debuffs. The cold dmg on the parse is listed because wizards turn their group members spell dmg into cold, it doesn't add anything to it. And as far as I know there are no items that a summoner can wear that increases the base dmg to the pet which is where the damage is coming from. There are several items that increase the base damage of the pet now including but not limited to the TSO set shoulders both legendary and fabled. There are also buffs that change the crit amount as well. Further skewing the results.
Also advocating that the damage on this is adequate is just a farse. We actually WANT the class fixed, and when the devs look at the damage logs from summoners they will see overall numbers without digging more, so WANTING this item fixed brings the problems to the forefront more readily then them digging for the information.
The thing about wanting gear to fix the class is also wrong whoever posted that. We don't want gear to fix the class we want our gear to effect our pets which is a mechanic issue not a gear one. Fixing it with broken items like this just cover up the real issue which is gear scaling and pet dps.”

It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parse
Nobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:
Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway.
And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.
So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.
The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.
There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.”

Stop with this crutch of a broken item....learn your class and game mechanics or the game period and you might be able to perform with out this broken item

ARCHIVED-Sabutai · Jan 18, 2009

Xil wrote:

“And you are still advocating the use of a broken mechanic as a good thing... And better yet that hiding that mechanic from the devs is also a good thing.
They call that exploitation. But I have a feeling you'll be supprised on this one.”

So you didn't say this? So now that you've seen it has been broken and want to keep it, its ok? But before you thought it was broken people who didn't want it front and center were the exploiters?
Gotcha!

ARCHIVED-Sabutai · Jan 18, 2009

Xil wrote:

“It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parse
Nobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:
Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway.
And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.
So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.
The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.
There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.”

Clearly you don't understand how fixes are made. They introduced all of this new pet gear, aa's etc. They will gather information based how well the class does with newer gear abilities etc. So using a clearly broken however nice it is right now will not help get the class fixed.

ARCHIVED-Xil · Jan 18, 2009

Sabutai wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“And you are still advocating the use of a broken mechanic as a good thing... And better yet that hiding that mechanic from the devs is also a good thing.
They call that exploitation. But I have a feeling you'll be supprised on this one.”

So you didn't say this? So now that you've seen it has been broken and want to keep it, its ok? But before you thought it was broken people who didn't want it front and center were the exploiters?
Gotcha!”

Yeah you can take everything out of context and make it say whatever you want though.
That was in reference to you claiming that I had somehow leaked your secrect about the robe out.
Yer still stuck on semantics and I can see clearly now you have no intention to have a logical discusion about anything.
Like I've said a hundred times before and for the last time now. The suggestion was that fixing at item based on the tooltip instead of seeing the application of that item as the flawed or not-flawed mechanic is short sighted, and all around stupid.

ARCHIVED-Xil · Jan 18, 2009

Sabutai wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parse
Nobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:
Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway.
And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.
So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.
The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.
There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.”

Clearly you don't understand how fixes are made. They introduced all of this new pet gear, aa's etc. They will gather information based how well the class does with newer gear abilities etc. So using a clearly broken however nice it is right now will not help get the class fixed.”

And they don't use some magical database of summoner performance. They use QA people and feedback to test these things. A known issue like the robe would be no obsticle of any kind. They break down everything and see where all the issues are and then test them in stages.
Do you think they are so stupid that they wouldn't understand that the robe would skew the data a little? Or even stupid enough to not break down the summoner in different stages of progression and test them both in equipment and out of equipment?

ARCHIVED-hellfire · Jan 18, 2009

Xil wrote:

“Sabutai wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parse
Nobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:
Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway.
And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.
So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.
The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.
There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.”

Clearly you don't understand how fixes are made. They introduced all of this new pet gear, aa's etc. They will gather information based how well the class does with newer gear abilities etc. So using a clearly broken however nice it is right now will not help get the class fixed.”

And they don't use some magical database of summoner performance. They use QA people and feedback to test these things. A known issue like the robe would be no obstical of any kind. Do you think they are so stupid that they wouldn't understand that the robe would skew the data a little?”

Since you have clearly only been in this game for a few months and have no idea how the QA works.....then yes they would be to stupid to understand.

ARCHIVED-Sabutai · Jan 18, 2009

Xil wrote:

“Sabutai wrote:

“Xil wrote:

“It's pretty easy to exagerate the effectiveness of something with raid buffs and debuffs at the absolutle highest level of progression on an 8 mob encounter... in other words Fix the parse
Nobody has ever once suggested this would be a FIX of any kind for the class. What was suggest is here I'll make it big and red for you:
Instead making the item useless, tone the power regen down or remove it and leave the DPS "FOR THE TIME BEING", since a real fix is not coming anytime soon to the class. And the DPS added to the pet is not overpowering since the pet is only doing about half the DPS it should be anyway.
And no Sabu, making the robe worthless does nothing to bring summoner problems to the forefront. The class dev already knows what the issues are and has for a long time. You already know they are aware of the problems. You already know that the fix for summoner isn't going to come for a LONG time. These are confirmed and well known facts.
So arguing that the robe must be fixed in order to clearly address the problems with summoner is kinda redundant. The problems with summoner were there before the robe. Remain there with the robe. And will still be there without the robe.
The only difference fixing the robe will make is now those newly 80 summoners (who actually got something from it) get to lose out on groups and take a 400 or so DPS cut from their pets again.
There was no good reason to do that. Leaving the DPS the way it was hurt no one and offered no realy advantage over any other class. Taking it away for the sake of semantics is stupid.”

Clearly you don't understand how fixes are made. They introduced all of this new pet gear, aa's etc. They will gather information based how well the class does with newer gear abilities etc. So using a clearly broken however nice it is right now will not help get the class fixed.”

And they don't use some magical database of summoner performance. They use QA people and feedback to test these things. A known issue like the robe would be no obsticle of any kind. They break down everything and see where all the issues are and then test them in stages.
Do you think they are so stupid that they wouldn't understand that the robe would skew the data a little? Or even stupid enough to not break down the summoner in different stages of progression and test them both in equipment and out of equipment?”

um, then ask aeralik. They do actually use numbers generated from their log files...Thanks for playing tho.

ARCHIVED-Onkello · Jan 18, 2009

Xil, Please click here. This is for you. Much love.
http://s338.photobucket.com/albums/...yelinko/parses/

ARCHIVED-hellfire · Jan 18, 2009

Onkello wrote:

“Xil, Please click here. This is for you. Much love.
http://s338.photobucket.com/albums/...yelinko/parses/”

ooo looks like a 1600+ dps on single target and 1100+ max hit...man thats bit more then 350-400 max...no way possible /gasp!

OH wait i know onkello musta forged his parse to cause its cold damage

ARCHIVED-Necrodeath79 · Jan 18, 2009

There is 1 more very good reason why this item needs to be "Fixed" so it does what was intended, Why would the Very Best robe in the game for a summoner be from a vender ?
There is not a single robe not even the new avatar robe that would be as good as this item is now, so tell me why something anyone can get for almost nothing should be better than the new robe from avatars ?
Let me guess because we havent been fixed yet.
So on top of the class issues. Ruin progression for another slot. We already have the neck, and we can add the BP to that list also.
Pest

ARCHIVED-Xil · Jan 19, 2009

Onkello wrote:

“Xil, Please click here. This is for you. Much love.
http://s338.photobucket.com/albums/...yelinko/parses/”

That's pretty impressive. 88% crits total and the lowest hit on the lower parse is almost double the listed proc amount. That's some serious gear and some serious buffing.
And you got your pet to proc potent 26 times in 32 seconds on a single target that's pretty insane spell haste and recovery and recast....(pretty sure you can't put enough spell haste on pet even with Time Compression to make that happen) Unless of course it was in fact a linked encounter and potent was hitting more than one target...
But thank you for the post.

ARCHIVED-Xalmat · Jan 19, 2009

Xil wrote:

“And you got your pet to proc potent 26 times in 32 seconds on a single target that's pretty insane spell haste and recovery and recast....(pretty sure you can't put enough spell haste on pet even with Time Compression to make that happen) Unless of course it was in fact a linked encounter and potent was hitting more than one target...”

26 times in 32 seconds means he used Plane Shift, which does give the pet that much spell haste. But even so, that was still a single mob, not multiple mobs.

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