Bigron@Unrest wrote: Let's see the where ACT shows this. I've put all 3 pets on the wall and never seen it go over a 10 to 15% proc to hits ratio. Even with proc increasing buffs and a linked encounter the mage pet only showed a 28% proc rate and that was without breaking each target down.
Xil wrote: I didnt talk down to anyone ...she stated her opinion andi told her she was wrong. Im sure ive been around forever and it means nothing if i was still wrong but since im not me being here forever means everything. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't need you or anyone else to validate what I clearly see every single time I log in. Or what anyone who's ever played with me sees. You yourself say you can "smoke me" so... why the hell would you argue in favor of Necro being worthless DPS? And ill answer that.At end game with min/max of char/group set up as well as takeing into account all encounters,summoners with necros more so are behind the curve in regards to dps when matched up against a wizard/warlock/ranger/assasin.......there is no reason to really bring a necro or conj in regards to pure dps also wizards have ton more utility. Chanters...both illy and corcer have same if not better in some cases dps and a boat load more utility........there is no reason to bring a necro or conj in regards to pure dps or utility Rouges: both are also in our dps neighborhood but as in case4 of chanters bring very worthwhile utility that trumps summoners.........there is no reason to bring a necro or conj in regards to pure dps or utility. So yeah necro are preety much useless as well as conj in regards to dps and in the cases where we are very good generally it isnt enough in terms of makeing a raid better as a whole. Now there are exceptions to this of corse ill point to my self....but still doesnt change if building a raid force summoners would not be on it if designing optimul set up........ we are replaceable......with out a second thought.
Xil wrote: Sure.......and dont forget in a raid setting with max debuffs everything will be enhanced. These are against the training dummy.
Not sure how you got those numbers... I put 10 solid minutes into 3 mobs and didn't get that kind of return...
This topic seems to keep veering off track from the actual subject. Let's try to keep from doing this by staying on topic, staying constructive, and avoid making comments directly to other posters. Agree, Disagree, make your point, or defend your point; whichever you do be sure it is about the topic of the thread.
Here's the robe at 25 minutes of solid procing with Mage pet: This is with a Dirge and Troubador and an Illy Palace of Ferzhul - [1] 1:39:54 AM | All - [25:32] 2:46:08 AM | Xil | Outgoing Damage TypeDamageExt DPSAverageMin HitMax HitResistHitsCritHitsSwingsTo Hit %Crit % All88185635756.24623.1309078All1415257871493294.7841% Potent Essence Infusion15703951025.06449.970717heat3490742395988.1521% Pandemic621850405.91562.252831328disease1106856114496.6877% Bloodcoil552857360.87798.933333400disease692528692100.0076% Dissonant Note492379321.40617.023191188mental798330798100.0041% Precise Note416022271.55744.234551355mental559237559100.0042% Grim Lifetap405509264.691196.197432124heat3398435794.9625% Lich's Siphoning394297257.37560.08374797disease704503704100.0071% Grim Wave379185247.51274.18154551poison1383309140498.5022% Bloodcloud339410221.553263.5621864537disease1048812285.2585% Dynamism332512217.04859.205441368mental387282387100.0073% Soulrot331298216.25579.191992126disease57245259296.6279% Grim Devastation315314205.82630.633471415poison5007050499.2114% Drain Life312046203.694274.6027216152disease73518387.9570% Grim Embrace307842200.94572.202252247poison53810954498.9020% Grim Bolt275837180.051393.127952548poison1984820596.5924% Grim Distortion211065137.772777.1716374310poison76287897.4437% Peace of Mind206369134.71856.304771709mental2419729083.1040% Greater Void Bane180480117.812098.617853344mental865411078.1863% Consume13084685.41991.266151334disease13293132100.0070% Obsidian Chaos12412281.02165.7231977mental749552749100.0074% Clawing of the Soul11284273.66910.026801375disease12427124100.0022% Minion's Mark10327367.411229.448592010magic84198994.3823% undead horde's Potent Essence Infusion9080259.27391.39350472heat2320232100.000% Lifeburn8664056.558664.0086648664focus10010100.000% Master's Strike7620849.746350.6741919078magic12101770.5983% Praetor's Strike7151846.681117.478061658mental64378179.0158% grave disturbance's Potent Essence Infusion6853044.73389.38350472heat1760176100.000% Poisonous Blast5340934.86373.49541479poison14310115691.6771% Bewilderment3676624.003342.3624204674magic11811100.0073% Vampire Bats3399822.19548.352221923piercing62486398.4177% grave disturbance's Rapid Decay3084920.14350.56252536disease88088100.000% imp pack2601816.98215.02148305crushing1210121100.000% undead horde's Grim Devastation2504916.35521.85369717poison48048100.000% undead horde's Grim Lifetap1965512.83935.957571152heat21021100.000% undead horde's Grim Wave1887712.32224.73164316poison84084100.000% Dooming Darkness124178.11376.27230498disease33223594.2967% undead horde's Grim Embrace93236.09332.96235423poison28028100.000% imp pack's Potent Essence Infusion91455.97381.04350467heat24024100.000% undead horde's Grim Bolt84195.50841.90681986poison10010100.000% grave disturbance77455.06368.81254479disease21021100.000% undead horde's Grim Distortion76695.011533.8012602010poison505100.000% undead horde's Invocation24361.59487.20444538divine505100.000% undead horde24051.57343.57195561piercing707100.000% Fire Breath22661.48755.33684791heat32560.0067% undead horde's Graven Assault13540.88677.00587767disease202100.000% undead horde's Cleansing Fire6600.43132.00125143heat505100.000% undead horde's Litany of Torment6550.43327.50296359divine202100.000% Exposed Noxious00.00NaN00disease00430.00NaN Siphoning of Souls00.00NaN00disease0020.00NaN Killing00.00NaN00Death00120.00NaN Dust Storm00.00NaN00heat0040.00NaN It proc'd about 2195.5 times split 3 ways. (this is after adding all occurances of the tick and splitting them in half) So over a 25 minute fight it proc'd about 731.833~ times give or take the 100 or so that were direct target from dumbfires rather than the mage pet itself. Seems the proc rate was between 15 and 18% over a 25 minute period with a Dirge increasing procs. And as it should be about 10% chance to proc on all types of damage that seems about right? And a far cry from 60-80%... And even fully buffed for spell damage the proc levels out at about 1k DPS which equates to a bit less than half that in power regen. So I'd say the power regen is probably too high but the damage added really isn't signifigant enough to warrent the effect as being "broken". This is supposed to be somewhat of a center piece to the entire summoner set. It's a much needed boost to the DPS of both our pets and our dumbfires (if anything it's lower than it should be). The power regen should probably be trimmed back a bit but I think as far as Utility goes it doesn't hurt to give summoners power regen along the lines of Enchanters. It's not like we have anything else to offer at the moment aside from DPS... which is also a bit shy of the mark. Technically the effect might be out of line from its literal description but in practical application it offers a nice bandaid to the currect lack of summoner advancement in TSO. And really it's not even a very good bandaid. Should it be fixed? Eventually. Is there a valid reason other than semantics it be fixed before Summoner recieve the promised Overhaul? Not at all.
Xil wrote: you need help dude. If you can't see that this is broken let me help you with your math. No fancy algebra, no calculus. If you have an Encounter AE DOT(ie a spell that hits multiple mobs multiple times) and that DOT is hitting 1/3 less than a proc from ONE pet (and those 4000 hits are exclusively from the mage). Then said item is currently broken! Still not sure of the math? Take your epic then, or your praetors guard. Those items have 'same chance' to proc off each attack on a mob, and you're saying that a robe with similiar % chance to use is going off 40 times more is actually not more? Hope you're not an accountant IRL.
Sabu it's a 3 mob encounter. It hit 4200 times there about but that is split in half because every proc is 2 hits right off. So you have 2100 hits on 3 mobs. Now because it is procing on AE damage you can then split that 3 ways because each proc is hitting 3 mobs so you have ~700 total procs of the robe. Now yes that is still more than Praetor's Guard and my Epic proc. But it basically works out to a 15% chance to proc. With Dirge Proc increase. Which is not out of line for an effect that procs on all the same occurances of damage that Piece of Mind triggers on. DoT ticks, direct damage, ect... Epic and PG don't proc on the same things that PoM procs on either but all the tooltips say Successful Attack. So what you are arguing is completely semantics. What the item says has no barring on it's application. I had leggs I could wear as a hat for a long time. What matters is the end result. And the end result is excessive power regen and about 1k DPS added to our DPS pets and about 250 DPS added to our tank pet with quite a bit less power regen. So like I said before you attacked me like the troll you've let yourself become over on EQ2 flames, while the effect is probably out of line from its desription its practical application is not entirely out of line. It does not benefit summoner in much regard other than Power regen and really until they fix summoner there is nothing else to bring to the table so you can't really say it's overpowered. 90% of innovation comes from holes in design that produce unintended results. You can however, cry about semantics and make a fool of yourself as much as you'd like.
Xil.....just send your mage pet at the training dummy.....dont attack....no other people in group and post what happens then send one of your dumfires at said dummy.....post what happens... do this with all your pets and post what happens this is the type of clean data that will hopefully show you how broken this robe is And as far as its effect not being out of line....this single legendary item completely trivializes some raid encounters and is bar none the best robe ever to exsist in game.....therefore demolishes any item progression. sure its nice while it lasts.....which wont be much longer now thnx to all the publicity....but to think its working as intended is just crazy talk
Xil wrote: 30 times a min proc rate that will equal 120 pct proc chance when normalized.....also to note its more proc then you have stated since its not always procing off 3 mobs. Non normalized is prob around 80 pct proc rate...... not 15 This one proc adds almost 20 pct of your dps......and almost triples your highest dps spell. Tho not being shown it will regen more then twice the amount of mana to grp then a mythicaled corcer All signs point to item being broken or over powered
Xil wrote: See, I like how you throw out the word troll a lot on people that don't agree with you. Problem is you're wrong about all the time when it comes to things about this class. This was brought up solely because most people like to keep nice things about gear under the radar because its nice to actually be wanted or have a temp fix in game for a completely broken class. One of the reasons why people jump on you so readily is that you ARE NOT HELPING NECROS!!! Period. Spouting that you run groups with a troub illy etc, basically the perfect group every night does nothing to fix the class that is so dependant on perfect group setups that its not even funny. Why is it then Mr. Perfect Necro, that with all this dps you keep spouting about that you still haven't gotten your mythical? Can't be because you're lazy, I mean that would just be incredulous. If you can do 10-15k dps in a zone that EVERY OTHER single mage can't break 7 on a zw is it that you still haven't cleared all of that zone, all of VP and even most of the new content? I'll tell you why, its because its BS! Either you're the only person in the raid with a perfect setup or it simply just doesn't happen. And you keep coming back with 'well its 3 mobs so you gotta split it this many ways'. That's not how you evaluate a piece of gear. If you still can't see that the 2000 hits is way out of line look at your pandemic, that's a dot it goes off MULTIPLE times on a 3 mob encounter and the robe has proc'd almost twice as many times ONCE! And you've been laughed at multiple times already stating how low your dps was on that fight anyways. So please if you want to help fix the class, stop posting like this. Nobody believes you anyways.
Well I think the "fix" should be changing the description on the item itself. If this item gives summoners a much needed DPS and utility boost then maybe that's what the devs had intended. I for one am tired of sitting on lfg seeing all of the "Scout DPS only" and "Mana regen needed" groups pass me by. I'm also tired of everyone and their parsing software trying to get this item nerfed. Why would any summoner shoot themselves in the foot? Maybe you like being the underdog? I for one do not. I doubt there are any other classes saying that this item should be "fixed" due to it being OP, but not now.... only after Sony finally spends the resources to revamp 2 entire classes? You really think that will happen when you can't even get a red named to post in the necro forums at all? No, my money would be on them changing it because your little ACT parses prove otherwise!!! I don't know anyone who could attest to the necromancer class being overpowered. Assassins? Well that's another story. I've seen many stealth nerfs. This could be a stealth upgrade so Shut up and enjoy it.
Sabutai wrote: You keep saying perfect group but since when have you seen a Scout or any other Mage do a damn thing on the parse without an enchanter or bard or both? I group with classes that benefit me just like everyone else does. Or do Dirge and Coercer not count when it comes to scout DPS? Because every scout group has at least a bard or a chanter in them and most have both. And I throw out troll alot? Search my name for posts containing troll and make sure you omit this one. I only throw troll out there when people exibit trolling behavior like flaming to cause drama or derail threads or simply because they don't like someone else. And what you aren't realizing is for about 23 or those 25 minutes I was killing books. Not DPSing the Librarians. My pet however was on them for the entire 25 minutes and did not die. And when you go over the parse you see for every time stamp counted there's each mob listed twice. Which means the vast majority of the hits are coming from AE dot ticks which also makes sense because they are the most frequent attack. If I were DPSing the Librarians for that whole 25 minutes my hit rate would have been about 5 times that high and the DPS from potent essence infusion woulda been about 7 to 10% of the DPS just like it normally is. And if you want to help Necros why encourage people to exagerate our lack of DPS? Why encourage people who claim Necro are completely broken and useless? All you are doing is tell the Dev's fixing Summoners will take tons of work and cost lots of money. Guess what their response to that is? "Let's put it off until the last possible minute". Instead you could be showing them what Summoner can do so they see that the changes that need to be made are much less drastic than people make them out to be. Then they might consider the time and effort required to be at least partially cost effective.
Xil wrote: Your hit rate as i posted is 30 times a min the proc doesnt tic on each tic of a dot it ticks from spell landing on first tick which as i stated to equall 80-120 pct if you happen to factor in equalized casting or not.....there is no 10 pct or 15 its almost 100 pct......but you dont seem to grasp this. What the heck are you talking about costs to fix a class...we arent talking about redoing the graphic engine so it take into account the high end grafic cards instead of single core processor speed.....costly. Developers doing there jobs in balanceing the classes for healthy game balance = their job description. Showing what a summoner can do in regards to what?The robe does nothing to show anything except its very broken and just hides class issues.And if they think the changes arre minimal then it goes to reason that the class is not really in need of fixes and can be put to back burner for more important time consumeing fixes which would be druids.
Germs666 wrote: Creating one legendary robe....only attainable at level 80....does not fix a class.....it hides the underlying issues. it is nice to feel wanted and useful again.....but to think this one robe in its current state was the intended fix for us is silly. Ill quite happily continue to use it until its fixed....unfortunately....all this publicity will get it fixed far sooner than most of us were hoping. Xil: As bigron has said....this is not procing off dot ticks....it is proc on first hit of each spell. your parse includes all your hits aswell...this robe only procs off pet spells....which you can test by sending your mage pet at a training dummy and not attacking......collect that data.....and look at the proc rate.......it is proccing almost every spell and regening about 150 mana per second to each person in the group. Edit: look here you go. Its broken....and to post your <10k parse in the library with that included....as evidence summoners are the shiz is whats got alot of us mad
Yeah, checked my parse, and this is parsing about every 2-3 seconds. I haven't been using dumbfires, I guess if it procs on those I should be using those as well. I would guess this is bugged, I doubt any one item would intentionally be made "irreplaceable" like this. Although this robe does bring us closer to par, it doesn't quite compete with what we need, which is really just a little readjustment. Enjoy unlimited group mana while it lasts =)
found out proc accidently set to 100 pct proc chance on pet spells and will be fixed....not broken lmfao.....all i got to say.
Jesus christ people are stupid. Yes, the robe is obviously broken. I really fail to see how you could possibly think otherwise. I have no problem with it being fixed, however I would have preferred it to have been after the promised summoner changes. Now i guess we go back to being sub-par dps with no utility. Thanks OP for posting this! And thanks to Xil for being ridiculously obtuse and triggering a flame war which guarantees this gets noticed and fixed before class issues are addressed! Edit - and for the final nail in the coffin of the 'its not broken' idiocy, just check out what the t1 robe parses, which is almost the same effect *with the intended proc rate* Edit2: It's ironic that the fix will come not as a result of non-summoners whining but as a result of absolute ******* who thought that it wasn't broken and felt the need to post about it.
Course its broken..and so are summoners. Despite the abundance of AoE encounters in TSO heroic content we're still just as broken. I can't tell ya how many calls out in the channels I see for the "perfect" group. Tank, healer or 2, bard, Illy (sometimes chanter), and Assassin/rogues sometimes wizzy. Doesn't matter that bard enchanter are both bloody utility classes..people would rather run with them both because in the end they still outshine the summoner. FFS I've even been ignored by these PUG's to Deep forge..the easiest damn zone in the xpac. In the end me telling these *******, Hey I've got the insanely broken robe that makes me worth a damn, isn't really an option is it? It doesn't matter that I'm actually one of the few summoners that know how to dps decently with a few buffs, but the dogma that summoners are utter crap is already so engrained in the game. In numerous TSO t3 instances the pet won't even stay standing unless I, as a summoner, constantly pester a healer to try to cure the bugger (which I can't do easily unless in vent and demand they make a macro specially for my pet, and really don't feel comfortable doing that unless its a healer I know closely aka the one I'm married to) thanks to SoE's genius idea of allowing the pets to be affected by these aoe's without an easy way to be cured by the summoner. So yeah..after my little rant...I agree the robe is broken. On the Master tonight in Crucible I didn't hardly attack cept for main pet plane shifted and swarms due to the reflect, and still pulled a 5900 parse with 30ish % of that being the robe. But add me to the list of folks that feel you can get around to fixing the robe proc when you get around to fixing the class...thanks.
