MIS dropping fabled set gear REVISITED - (Keep it real)

This thread is just funny... To think some people so firmly believe in the things they say here. It's like they honestly dont have a clue, and really dont have a second agenda. But alas, they do.
It's KoS all over again. Guilds A. B. and C. kill Tarinax after a few tries... (mind you, these were the raid guilds who owned everything in DoF and spent lots of time gearing in Labs). Anyways once Tarinax is killed, ALL THE SUDDEN he's too easy, and SOE needs to make him harder. Why? I'll tell you.
A. They already got their kill, why should they care if he's made harder.
B. They cant flex e-peens if others have the same loot. Harla Dar was locked down for the longest time for the same reason... to prevent DT access. Guild A. didnt care if Guild X badly need Harla for the last update. They killed her anyways and every chance they could when she was still contested. Why? E-Peens. It was bad enuf to get her moved to an instance.
We have yet to beat Tarinax, and were a casual raid guild. We havent killed any EoF raid zone named. This isnt a group of newbs, this is a "run of the mill" casual raiding guild. So all this progression BS is stupid. Progression is there for 80% of the other raiders in game, which are casual. Guilds who still do labs for one of the 2 or 3 raids they do a week.
The ones who claim its too easy? What, are you thinking? Or are you?
A. You are going from T7a to T7b. Your armor, weapons and jewelry (not to mention MONTHS of time to get fully mastered) is plenty for killing T7b mobs. Do you think a few extra resists, procs or stats is gonna make a big difference? Not for a top-end raiding guild for sure. It should be easy for guild who has killed all KoS has to offer. And yes some mobs in EoF should have the same difficulty as KoS mobs. Why????
B. YOU IN THE SAME GD TIER!!! Had EoF been a T8 expansion upgrade, you would need to level, get more masters and obtain better gear to complete what you do now. Never forget you hardly need to upgrade to complete EoF when you've had tons of time to farm the best T7a fabled.
C. Your raid guild consists of 100% professionals. Players who know everything there is to know about their classes and mechanics. Players who can decipher strats on the fly and adapt better than the majority. This is NOT our fault that your good. Leave difficulty as it is.
Really, same as KoS. All about the ****** flexing... of course only "after" you kill the mobs. This isnt a cry about mobs being easy at all. It's a cry that other people get to obtain the same loot as you. And I'll bet real money that once the contested are figured out and killed, someone will /cry about them being too easy also. Why? E-Peens.

Have you ever been in MMIS? Have you ever pulled a named in there? No? Then you have no clue what you're talking about. Pickup raids are doing MMIS on my server with success. FFS, PICKUP RAIDS! If pickup raids can do more than your casual guild then yes, you are a bunch of noobs. And btw, no one called for Tarinax to be beefed up until he was nerfed. If we beat a hard version of a mob, everyone else should have to too.

Wait, we (my guild) has never been to MMIS? Maybe you have no clue my friend. I said we havent killed any EoF named, that does not mean we havent tried. Making assumptions is not wise if you want to be taken seriously.
Sure, we didnt kill the first named in MMIS on our first attempt in zone. Not everyone did. We had NO idea what to expect on zone-in so keep the newb crap to yourself. Few guilds did kill that first named on their initial exploration. How do I know? Uhh, look at the server discoveries.
Now that everyone knows its easy (like we do now k-thx) then yes, he's getting killed by pickups. Do I mind? No, I dont have an ****** to worry about. I'd rather worry about my real one than care about a newb who gets fabled. Good for him! I'm happy about it. I'm sure it made his day if not month getting a piece of EoF.
You on the other hand want it taken from him. Christ man.
And if you deny my Tarinax fact, then you obviously dont remember what happened. He wasnt asked made stronger because he was nerfed, and dont think anyone will buy that BS. The moment the major guilds dropped him he was asked to be made stronger. And even tho the nerfs and changes didnt come right away, they kept Harla on lockdown for the same friggin reason. E-Peenage.
Who cares about your opinion anyways, I hit the topic on the mark. You want a bigger ****** than the rest. You wanna sit in QH or EFP and show all the newbs your unique items. You want lesser fortunate players to think about how uber you must be. And every time you see someone else with the same item it makes you mad, because your no longer unique.
Lets some of the less fortunate farm their 1 piece of EoF fabled. Just like the first named in Labs for the Class Legs. CLASS LEGS! Pickups could do that too! And that was a major piece. So let the guilds who can clear labs without a single death clear a few EoF zones to the end. And dont complain when other people win gear, it just shows us what your really concerned about.
Size dose not matter in a video game...

Just a lil addition. Went into MMIC for the second time tonight, killed the 2 easiest names. Got 2 different EoF set shoulder pieces, 1 which rotted. Has issues that prevented going after Viswin this time around.
Anyways, saw no problems with current difficulty. And considering the lockout, the type of drops and the chance of something rotting, theres nothing that would imbalance the game as it is now. 2 shoulders every week for a casual raid guild is fine by me. A long way from getting anything near a full set.
And if someone wants to do a pickup raid and kill V'Tekla K'Zalk so one person can get shoulders, thats great. It's nothing like relic runs.

I'm glad you are happy with set pieces off the easiest isntanced epics in the expansion.

Please explain to me how it is fair that some classes get their set pieces off these epics, while some get the same slot off some of the hardest names on the last 2 floors in Emerald Halls?

It's not a problem that it's dropping in Inner Sanctum. The problem is that the progression is inconcievably messed up.

This is not a casual vs. hardcore argument.

This is concern why some people can get their set pieces effortlessly off farmed nameds after 2 minutes from zone-in while some people have to fight the hardest content in the expansion on their second day in Emerald Halls to get their piece.

If Emerald Halls is going to drop set, then Inner Sanctum should not. If Inner Sanctum is going to drop set, then Emerald Halls should drop something better.

Get it?

Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-21-2007 03:17 AM

Emerald Halls needs a loot revamp really badly.

But I love my sumptuous fur-lined booties! *cough

I'd call that "Make pick up and casual guilds earn their loots".

Being casual doesn't mean you don't know how to play your class and how to kill mobs that are as easy as Vraksakin. If you find these mobs hard, it's not because you're casual, it's because you suck. There are really good casual players as well as really bad hardcore players. Difficulty has nothing to do with the amount of time you're playing. It will take you more real life time to get something done, but not more in game time, if you're good enough that is.

This is ridiculous how people have to bring the "e-peens" word each time they talk about guilds that know how to play. Earn your loot, end of story. We don't want to prevent you from looting the best gear in game, we want you to deserve it, you get it? Being casual is NOT an excuse, besides for the 2nd and 3rd floors of EH which makes EH a really long instance, but then you can still stay up in the zone until the next day, and there will also be a save system that will allow you to come back when you feel like it.
Now if you want MMIS named to drop the fabled set, and EH named to drop better loots, why not, but it's basically the same as having EH named dropping fabled set, and MMIS named dropping loots that are good but not as good as the fabled set. Where's the difference? Besides overpowering players or not.

No raider cares that the casual raiders are getting one piece of EOF class loot. Don't give yourself so much credit. There is no bandwagon.
The point of this thread is to point out how ridiculous it is that the same loot that drops in EH drops off of those 2 names that you killed. Nothing else. People are spending hours to get to one named that drops loot that you can get to in 10 mins in inner sanctum. That sir is why progression is messed up.
Message Edited by Goonch on 01-21-2007 01:43 PM

Actually the point of the thread is this: "By making the gear this easy to get now imho severely degrades the value of the game for higher end guilds" and plenty have agreed with that point.

So, looks like he was right? The "high end" guilds don't want anyone else touching their precious.

And oh yes I'll be flamed for this... but there's nothing wrong with the set loot dropping off mobs ranging through different difficulties of content. It gives more reason to go to every raid zone, doesn't it? Unless you think each piece should drop off of bosses that take days of clearing to reach, wouldn't want to be a hypocrite would you? Or perhaps you want the "easy to get" set pieces to suck, but that would just make the whole set suck wouldn't it? The other loot should be adjusted to more adequately "reward" the difficulty of whatever zone it comes from, the way it was in KoS.. it was a fine concept that the sets were more easily obtainable but there were better alternatives depending on where you raided. The big flaws were that it was easily farmable because it dropped off trash and was broken down into Archetypes so you had a 1 in 4 chance of getting a piece you could use when relic dropped. But now the sets are much more difficult to obtain, minus only a few pieces, so why the complaining? This isn't relic, the new sets aren't "farmable", full sets are needed to really get the most out of them, there is no problem. Isn't that what the "high end" guilds wanted in KoS anyway, relic dropping off of named? (That is, of course, after they'd farmed full sets for their entire guild but nevermind that, right?)

Now let's be real. I keep hearing "progression" and it makes me laugh because there is no progression at all in EQ2. Especially not with instances. The closest thing that exists even resembling it is DT access which is a joke. Yeah you were hoping for it, maybe it was promised (I dunno about that) but you didn't get it. All of EoF has been cleared in mostly KoS-equipped characters, and I seriously doubt what little EOF gear that was being used made any difference. Nothing is required to kill anything else, there's no locked zones, no access quests, nothing is required therefore no progression exists, get it? Zone progression has been squeezed right out of the entire game and if the vast majority of all access quests being removed isn't a good indication of that I'm not sure what is. Oh, Wolfsbane? Well we saw what a fantastic idea that turned out to be. The quested (!) item is purchasable from the broker now if I'm not terribly mistaken... yum, progression!

I also keep hearing the set gear is the best loot in the game. Well, you just keep on believing that if you really want to. I can think of a few classes who might feel a bit differently but whatever.

If you're too lazy to read all of the above, I'll summarize:- There is no progression in this game. At all. I came in right after DoF and progression didn't exist, and I haven't seen any since.
- EoF sets aren't the best loot in the game. Have you even seen any loot that drops outside of raid zones now? You can find better procs, better crit chance, damage bonuses etc elsewhere... less overall stats, maybe, but so what? The new sets fail to be the "godly uber lewt" some of you want it to be.
- Emerald Halls needs to be improved, nerfing MMIS loot or upping it's difficulty won't change that.

I personally don't care if I never get a piece of the new sets. I'll be playing another game before I see a full set at the rate they drop anyway. Wouldn't mind having the gloves since it's the only piece that immediately says "oooh, upgrade!" but whatever. You can make MMIS more difficult, too. Won't matter to me. Though I'm sure that isn't going to save from being accused of "wanting free loot for logging in" or something equally ridiculous.

Thank you Brekehan, your spot on. I get tired trying to explain things for the 5th time to some of these guys. And I still believe there is mob progression but yea your right, no real zone progression. Would like to have seen stronger access quests or better barriers for getting into the top 1-2 EoF raid zones (like DT).
Anyways, I guess someone will always hate the fact my casual guild and some newbie pickup raids get a shot at looting 1 of the 7 EoF set pieces once a week. I guess players getting 1 of 7 pieces is unbalancing to them, (tho for some reason in KoS it was ok).
Really is sad that because 1 mob is a straightfoward 1.3mil HP burn with no tricks, that all the sudden anyone who kills her didnt earn that chest. For those who honestly believe that... please delete all you relic and the class leg piece from the first named in labs (if you have them) and go re-earn armor some harder way.
Otherwise, hope the devs make the gear that drops in EH better and on-par with its difficulty. From looking at the shoulder stats, they really shouldnt be dropping in the premier EoF zone.

Edited to add... above someone said they wanted us to "deserve" our drop... Who are you do decide who deserves what in the game man? Until you reach dev status everything you say about that is just an ****** whine. In fact, claiming others dont deserve stuff is the definition of ****** whinage.
Since day-1 in EQ, if you had a brain, got a raid together and killed the mob you deserve the drop. Dont go talking BS about you deserving anything more than anyone else. If you can kill it, you deserve the loot. The only time iis not ok is when a bug is used to manipulate the system for an un-earned kill. (cough: early Matron bug)
So far, everyone in game deserves a very small chance of getting just 1 of 7 pieces if they put a raid together. The devs must have seen this is ok so deal with it.

Message Edited by BeatinGuts on 01-21-2007 02:35 PM

I get your point. And in fact it looks like we agree with each other.

We both don't want the same quality of loot to drop from EH and MMIS. You talk about E-Peens, but you basically say the same things as me.
Now my concern is, where are our "better than the fabled set" items then? You got yours with the fabled set gears, where are OURS? Besides for a few exceptions, nothing is really better than the fabled sets in EH.

So that's why there's something wrong, they should have changed the table loots of every mobs from every zone. Not just MMIS. And that's why the people complaining about it are RIGHT. And that's why arguing against it is WRONG.

Until EH nameds don't drop better loot, MMIS nameds shouldn't drop fabled set gear. Change everything at once, or don't change anything. End of story.

Didn't they just build in the progression that Mayong will not be so easy in that guilds cannot try over and over and over as much as they please to learn the encounter without obtaining the item that was prior to recently, easy to obtain. With this fix, zone progression was built in that EH would need to be defeated periodically to complete MMIS. MMIS end boss being the final progression line supplying the breastpiece. Is it possible there was a misunderstanding in that EH end boss was needed to defeat MMIS boss and not that every named NPC in MMIS was supposed to be more difficult than every NPC in EH? I can't say for sure since I was neither in BETA nor do I know any Dev personally to ask. Just something to think about. Nobody is gonna stop doing EH now 'cause they will need to defeat the zone to get the end item.
So, what do we have now, 5 pieces of the 7 piece set that will be attainable by quite a few guilds. From a Swashy standpoint, the one that makes me drool is the 7 piece bonus on the armor. The hardest two pieces will be the legs and the chest. The npc's that drop these are not a pushover so that seems like some sort of progression to get the complete set. At least they got it partially correct.
Getting even 5 pieces for most will be pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] tough, 7 most likely will be impossible. The difficulty of getting 5 imho, is just about where it needs to be. Not necessarily in difficulty of NPC's, but difficulty in how they made the items specifically for one class, and the chances of your class armor dropping can be very low, especially how it seems like you get the same item, 2 or 3 runs in a row. (not sure [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is up with that if its even intended, hopefully its fixed soon)
I have more on my mind and I don't think I worded everything like I meant to but I gotta work for a living so I may add more later...

What item are you talking about? Tunarian Wolfsbane? No, that's not dropping in EH anywhere. But consider this, the 2 orange vampires in MMIS need to be burnt down as soon as they hit 6%, and in EH you get stakes that do 3.1% of their health if they are at 6% or lower. Seems to me that those drop to make those mobs easy enough to be killed. But here's a problem, there is no reason to get those stakes as the mobs are easy enough to drop their last 6% anyway, so why are the stakes even in the game?

But the thing is, those mobs are a pushover to anybody who can kill the Matron. Mayong is a near duplicate to the Matron. Wuoshi is not the hardest mob in EH either, I'd have to say that the White Unicorn is a much more difficult fight than Wuoshi, of course everybody knows that the Segmented Rumbler is the hardest mob in the zone of course.

Wuoshi doesn't give you wolfsbane when you clear EH nor does the flower there let you harvest it, he only hands it out as a part of the Tunare quest. The patch notes about Wuoshi refer to the Tunare quest NOT EH.

So I come back to realized I was way off on a couple things. Same thing happened with a bunch of crap I rushed out the door Friday at about 4:59pm come to find out! The story of my life heh.
Laugh. So currently, unless someone has found out where, to get wolfsbane, you have to have done a certain step in Tunare's quest and if everyone has completed it and you're outta wolfsbane then no more Mayong. I hope SOE hasn't forgotten to add it now that they've made the quest non repeatable. I really don't feel like worshiping Tunare and furthermore, if your in a Freeport only guild your currently [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed but that's a whole other issue I don't think needs to be brought up here! Anyways, back to posting more incorrect stuff...'till then!

I actually agree, they've messed up the raid content in EoF, and focussed very heavily on group/solo stuff.
EQ2 has never been a great choice for hardcore raiding, and this is pretty much final proof, as if it were needed. We've got a confused raid progression, constant bugs and lag (3+ people need to relog each wipe, without fail), and "set gear" that's set to screw item progression for years ahead because what upgrade is gonna be worth losing the 7-piece bonus? And then there's the step backwards from the armor mold system to praying for a 1/24 chance of the right drop.
Clearly, guilds were meant to have to clear EH, or at the very least get the stakes, before tackling MMIS. Consequently, the best gear drops in MMIS.
But they didn't test / balance either zone before launch, and were even so dumb as to not consider the effects of manaburn and lifeburn on raid spike DPS. Thus EH is crap risk/reward (plus an absolute trash grind), and MMIS a set gear farm.
So what's the fix? You shift things around or make MMIS harder and you're penalising the guilds who didn't farm the crap out of MMIS to get set gear, whilst the guilds that did can use it to their advantage against the newer, harder, version. Rather like at the launch of KoS when certain guilds were in (and out of) Labs 24/7, got full sets of relic then cried nerf to *cough*block everyone else. Only remedy I can see is the whole thing written off as a mess and a new adventure pack with 3-4 endgame raid zones.

Clearly, guilds were meant to have to clear EH, or at the very least get the stakes, before tackling MMIS. Consequently, the best gear drops in MMIS.
The devs stated several times that EH was supposed to be the premier/hardest raid zone for EoF. I dont know why some still think MMIS is suposed to be the hardest (besides looking at loot tables).
But they didn't test / balance either zone before launch, and were even so dumb as to not consider the effects of manaburn and lifeburn on raid spike DPS. Thus EH is crap risk/reward (plus an absolute trash grind), and MMIS a set gear farm.
Good point, would be like Labs and DT sharing the same loot table. Who would wanna do DT if they did?
Labs "was" the easy gearup zone however, and I think MMIS is supposed to be the same.
It's why I firmly believe they should give EH better rewards and "not" remove the set pieces from MMIS. If your gonna spend hours on end in EH you may as well have a better than 1 in 24 chance per week (if even that) of winning a set piece you need. Having EH drop better stuff would fix just about everything.
Besides, who would really want to kill the last few EH named just to have it drop a "class specific" item someone already has? (Animist bracers anyone?) Watching something rott in EH would be just sickening considering time spent... and with set gear its unfortunatly gonna happen.

So based on loot everyone has seen, yea progression currently looks screwed up even tho EH was intented to be the top-end zone. All I can hope for is maybe the incoming epic line will square away some of the progression problems and hopefully add a little better loot to EH.
Just my 2c, and ya'll know I got a bucket of change.

Um, what is it you're here for again?