Focused Fighter Feedback

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Xelgad, Jan 11, 2013.

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  1. AustinB Member

    Just a quick note on the Brawler death save, it actually requires 14 AA worth of investment to max it out. The initial for 4 points get you 2 triggers and a 45s duration. It goes up to 3 triggers and 60s duration only after spending an additional 10 AA in the heroic tree. Thinking about it now, I am not sure if it is really worth the investment unless you are doing a fight where there is a real chance of you dying multiple times over the duration of the spell.

    Most of the time I hit Tenacity in preparation for a hit that I know will probably kill me (joust-or-die type AoEs) or in reaction to spiking very low in HP. Both of these scenarios don't really benefit from the extra trigger or the duration. When the total duration was 90s with the extra AA you could often time Tenacity such that it would be up for 2 rounds of joust-or-die type AoEs as will as have an extra trigger handy to absorb spike damage if needed.

    As it stands the extra 15s and 1 trigger on Tenacity is really only useful if I am using the skill to survive a raid wipe, or if my healers die (or are otherwise indisposed) and I am in a situation where I need survive long enough to allow my healers to recover.

    I am not sure the Brawlers Tenacity really needs a buff. I'd love for the Heroic AA to be reverted to its original state, but I don't really think that is needed.
  2. AustinB Member

    Addressing a few other Monk/Brawler issue I didn't address in my first post:
    • Eagle Shriek needs to change. The simplest way would be to simply allow it trigger as soon the Brawler drops bellow 50% HP and have it last for a certain duration (maybe 15s) after it triggers regardless of the current HP of the Brawler, it should be maintained indefinitely as long as the Brawler is bellow 50% HP. If this is change is made than Eagle's Patience should also lose the requirement that the Brawler be under 50% health. It would simply be enough that Eagle's Patience must be active to use this skill. I don't think these skills would need any other changes than the ones I described simply because they would work quite well together for helping the Brawler stand up to spike damage in raids.
    • Altruism is also a really week choice for an AA. This skill could be vastly improved if changed to a group buff. The first person (two people with enhancement AA) in the group to die get Altruism applied to them.
    • KoS defensive AAs that avoidance skill (such as +defense or +parry) should be reworked to provide actual bumps to uncontested avoidance or physical mitigation. Monkey Dodge should be +0.5%/rank uncontested Dodge, Eagle's Talon should be +0.5%/rank uncontested parry, and Deflecting Pincers should be (0.8*player_level)/rank Physical Mitigation.
    • Crane Flock also isn't really needed as it isn't very hard to max out AE Auto Attack on fights where you need (carry an extra set of armour with AE Auto adorns for example). This skill could perhaps be changed to AE Combat Art. A low to medium damage combat art that also buffs the Brawler for each target hit would be a nice idea. Something like 3000-4000 damage, unlimited target AoE, with ~280 Potency, 2200 Ability Mod, and 4400 Strength (roughly my current stats) with a 10s Base Reuse. It could also apply the following buff to the Brawler for each target hit (10s duration, doesn't stack with itself if applied again before it expires): +10 AE Auto, +10 Multi Attack, +10 Strikethrough, +10 Accuracy. The damage on this skill would be quite low, but the main benefit is that it hits unlimited targets and still allows Brawlers who are low on stats to boost them as needed. High end Brawlers will still gain the benefit of the Strikethrough and Accuracy to help with their hit rates. Swift Wings could add additional stats to the proc on Crane Flock, something like each rank adds +1 Attack Speed and DPS and 0.1*player_level to Ability Mod.
    • Chi is outdated for Raid Geared Brawlers as it is pretty easy to cap (or come close to capping) all the stats provided by Chi. Perhaps consider adding some additional stats to this buff that aren't easy for tanks to come across. For example, adding 100% Doublecast and 5*player_level Strength to Chi would be enough to keep it relevant into the foreseeable future.
    • Lightning Palm/Fist are somewhat useless in their current state. They don't really do enough damage to justify using any time other than when you are preparing for a pull. Here are a few suggestions of different ways this skill could be improved:
    1. Increase the damage significantly.
    2. Apply the buff across the entire group (Shadow AA could make it go raid wide). Everyone would get their own count of 8 triggers.
    3. Make the proc encounter wide.
    4. Make the proc into an AoE.
    5. Add an AoE heal equal to the damage amount (can't crit) on the skill.
    6. Make the skill proc a HUGE amount of threat (lowers threat in Recklessness Stance).
    7. Make the skill a maintained buff that procs for its current damage amount at a rate of ~10 ppm.
    • Evasion is somewhat useless considering that many of our positional hate abilities become positional dehate abilities in Recklessness Stance. There are only a handful of fights in the game at the moment where is is useful for the main tank (or off tank) to give up their hate position on demand. It is far more useful to take Reprimand as it gains a positional taunt when used with Provoking stance. My suggestion would to turn Evasion into something that would be a viable alternative to Reprimand for someone who is taking. Evasion should lower the hate of the highest of the highest non-fighter (or fighter in Recklessness) by 1 position. This makes Evasion valuable on memwipe fights, although in a different way than Reprimand. For regaining aggro you can make your job easier by lowering the amount of threat you have to get to in order to recapture a mob (in the case of a memwipe or memshuffle to a non-tank) instead of having to work your way to the top of the hate list. Evasion also becomes useful in helping maintain aggro on fights that it might otherwise be difficult to do so (fights where the tank spends half the fight under some form of control effect or when you are short on the appropriate classes needed to properly control hate across the group/raid).
  3. Tekadeo Active Member

    TBH I don't think that is the correct way of attacking the problem, Six. The fighters who attempt to tank in Reckless already don't really care about their defense, assuming their healers will make up for it.

    Instead, I suggested before Reckless went live that Tanks should have a deaggro "when hit" while in Reckless. If you can't keep aggro, you aren't a tank. The 30% dehate is also not enough, but a constantly blurring hate meter will put a stop to any group/raid that has a Fighter trying to be cute.

    Truth be told I wish they would either scrap Reckless or merge it with Offensive Stance. Or make it benefit all fighters equally.

    As it stands i only use Reckless when soloing in OP for Obols. That's it.
  4. Lous_mun New Member

    my only real feedback on this i have a guardian raid mt and i have a zerker and my biggest complaint is recklessness is outright useless for the warrior tanks seriously the parse difference for warriors in recklessness between offensive stance and recklessness is out right pathetic when compared to crusaders or brawlers both of which get more out of the potency increase then the warriors do. so if you want to change something trying getting recklessness to give warriors cb and let the other 2 archetypes keep the potency bonus from recklessness.

    to me it should be a simple change just have the spell check the archetype and give the appropriate bonus to the appropriate archetype should almost be a simple if statement added into the spell if archetype equals warrior you get crit bonus if archetype equals brawlers or crusaders give them potency.
  5. Davngr Well-Known Member

    bruiser gets marginal benefit from reckless compared to dragon fire monk.


    reckless should be made a group buff that is engaged when the fighter is in offensive. make it 10% raw boost to cb/pot. i guarantee that there will be no raid group anywhere in norath without 4 tanks.

    and the tanks that want to keep your stupid overpowerd damage buff.. lol
  6. Xeos Well-Known Member

    Berserker
    I have noticed that quite a few of their buffs have either the same recast as the duration or a shorter recast than the duration. That right there is Tedium. These buffs can literally be reapplied before or as soon as the buff expires. I suggest just making them passive buffs.

    • Chaos
    • Wall of Rage
    • Controlled Rage
    • Utter Destruction - is an AOE, yet you need to target something before you can cast it, I just think this was an oversight.
    • Adrenaline : Drains too much power. As a Beserker it is really hard to effectively tank and keep power.
    • Open Wounds: 100% AE autoattack for 36 seconds... well seen as how the Mythical buff grants 100% AE autoattack this is a bit redundant. I suggest just converting it to a higher damage proc and possibly a knockback effect on each hit when it is active.
    • It would be nice if they had the highest weapon damage bonus available of all tanks.
  7. Dexella Associate Producer

    Hi everyone,

    Thank you for your feedback thus far. I hope you continue to provide responses!

    As was mentioned in Xelgad's initial post, these threads will be open this week only; they will be closed (locked & unstickied) on Friday, January 18th, 2013 in the late afternoon (likely around 5:00pm PST).

    Thanks.
  8. Deathmagus Member


    1: Chaos has a capped reuse of 45 seconds If I'm not mistaken and duration of 30 seconds... it's not maintainable.

    2: Wall of Rage AND Controlled Rage both have the reuse timers begin on termination and thus are incapable of being maintained.

    3: Utter destruction works much like Jeering Onslaught, which I personally have no issues with. It's actually beneficial at times to have the AOE centered on your target.

    4: Adrenaline does not cause power issues outside of PvP unless you have no chanter or a poorly played chanter in your group and do not wear any power procs. In raids I can use Adrenaline every single time it is up if I want and outside of eating full power drains from DTs my power tends to stay above 90%.

    5: The 100% AE auto on open wounds is a relic of the pre-mythical/enervated days of the game. It still has benefits in PvP combat as you need 200% AE auto to AE auto 100% of the time. If the AE auto were removed then it would penalize the class in PvP combat unless the character had acquired 100% AE auto from gear with the stat or reforged for the stat. In the hopes that having >100% AE auto will at some point in the future grant some benefit I would personally like to keep Open Wounds unchanged.

    6: I would personally like to see some form of static weapon damage bonus added to the warrior tree so that both Guardians and Berserkers would see a benefit. However, that is likely asking for too much.
  9. Erszebeth Active Member

    The point isn't it being an issue for most content, the point is that its the only class with an death prevent that requires external sources to go off, while all other tank death prevents are wholly self contained.
  10. Brildean New Member

    Guardian Myth Buff needs changing its a joke and severely lacking.. where mostly everyone elses myths scaled the guardians continues to get worse and worse.

    The immunity buff needs to proc more.. Currently Red slot adorns offer more immunity with more up time. Also they have immune to mez.... guardians need Charm immunity and and mez immunity added. maybe 3.0 a minute

    the on melee hit wrath of warrior. needs to have it proc on combat arts and needs its damage and proc rate increased. 4.0 a minute would suffice.. and actually bring value to the guardian mythical right now its a laughing stock.

    Improved Moderate AA.. needs to increase by base cb % instead of just a flat 5cb.. this way it stacks in the future.

    Champions watch also needs to stack up the counters when the guardian takes damage.. right now the only thing that increases its counters is from ae's.. and from provoke.

    Shadow Tree battle Hardening.. should be a damage % base. not 500 damage off of a 100k hit thats laughable.. maybe make it .75% damage reduction per point spent..

    Got your back, should also increase the guardians damage reduction to spell damage. say 10%. currently its hardly useful.

    Flurry aa needs either parry chance added to it or riposte chance%..

    3% flurry for an aa is a joke. when items come with 4 to 9.

    Belly smash needs the knockdown requirement removed.. Last time i seen a raid boss being knocked down was ages ago.

    Also maybe think of unlocking the warrior tree so its not so spider webbed. There is so much useless aa's in this tree. Maybe do this for all classes let us pick and choose how we want to spec. not lock us into webbed trees.
  11. Brildean New Member

    ALso should allow targeting based on tag on mob.
  12. Netty Member

    Warrior need to have reversal fixed imo... The damage when wearing a shield and being defensiv is just meh still... That is the biggest down fall for berserks anyways... Dps when dwing is just where it should be at for berserks anyways so thats why reversal shield req should still be on the buff. Dragon reflexes need to be fixed aswell imo.... Its just not fun not being able to Hit a singel ca:s with that buff. Also love the idea of unwebbing the subclass tree:s for all classes.
  13. Kilraah New Member

    I've always thought it odd that Berserkers are able to be feared while berserk. I'd like to have that added as an ability, purchased through AA points if need be. Also, the debuffs on our CAs are weak, so to add AA points to them is relatively pointless. I would like to see .5% damage bonus per point added, as well. Otherwise, I agree with the 25% dr and 25% heal for adrenaline, as well as the needed changes to open wounds, and a HP buff. Thanks for giving us this opportunity to provide thoughtful feedback.
  14. Duele Active Member

    Make 2h DPS = DW DPS.
    Kalderon and Priority like this.
  15. Kalanon New Member

    A couple monk items, and a couple general comments:

    1. Will of the Heavens not reliably curing trauma.
    2. No reason to use taunts unless all my combat arts are on cooldown.
    3. Everburning Flame requiring health to maintain. The health cost itself is unnoticeable, but it means you have to recast it every time you die or go unconscious.
    4. Minimum range on Mantis Star means it can be very difficult to maintain it if you are tanking.
    5. The requirement on Superior Guard to not cast any combat arts. I don't like this for the same reason that I don't like death touches that force a tank to not do anything for an extended period of time. Even if it's 5 seconds, that's 5 seconds less that I was allowed to play my character and 5 more second's worth of temptation to tab out of the game to watch netflix. However, in the grand scheme of things, its a small flaw and I will live with it if this never changes.
    6. General undesirability of the Int tree for brawlers. If I am at 50% health, generally one of two things will happen in the ensuing moment: I will either be back to full health or I will be dead. This means that the damage bonus only exists for a second at most, and more often than not I would be dead or healed before I was able to cast the stoneskin.

    Generally, on the subject of AA's, there are a pretty large amount in most classes' AA trees that are increasing a capped stat. For instance, the multitude of AA choices which decrease the recast of an ability. We are rapidly reaching the point where most classes (with the possible exception of scouts that only use scout gear) are at or near 100% reuse speed. This means that a lot of these abilities are just point fillers you have to waste in order to get an endline. Others will add things like 10 Multiattack. Even abilities that add wanted stats like Crit Bonus are being rapidly overshadowed by the sheer amount of stats we get from gear. All of these choices were a decent increase in power at the level they were implemented, but subsequent level increases and gear revamps have made them nearly worthless, adding 1/10ths to 1/00ths of percents increase at best and doing nothing at all at worst.

    I would also like to throw in my two cents in and say that recklessness needs to be looked at. I think that my ability to tank in the stance is much higher than it needs to be, and the disparity from one fighter to another is staggering. I almost feel embarassed when my raid MT guardian makes an offensive AA spec, goes reckless, and cant even manage half of my parse on an equally geared and played monk in the same group.
  16. Hert Member

    Couple thoughts for bruiser:

    Pressure point needs to trigger a proc on knockout combo. no clue why it doesnt.

    would also be nice if wild beatings triggered it as well, as its a combat art. but i can see how that could be a little much...

    rock skin is fairly useless. for a class with up to and exceeding 25% physical damage reduction already passivly, 3k mit isnt really that amazing, esp considering the annoyance of the drawbacks. (i think the 3k is something around 5% or so in raid after diminishing returns.) id rather have the buff changed to a % based damage reduction for at least magic attacks, or all damage, and leave the drawbacks. then its more beneficial, but its more fun and harder to use it more wisely. also, bruisers have basicly no magic damage reduction abilities at all, at a time when hardmode mobs' avoidance damage and powertap aes make stoneskins more and more difficult to utilize when tanking, which brings me to my next thing

    up the % base on what qualifies stone deaf and inner focus to trigger. they shouldnt get eaten by avoid damage and the plethora of gimpy power drains. when 2 aes are fixing to hit close to or on top of eachother, one being a real one and 1 being a **** power one, stone deaf gets eaten by a 20k power tap, 1 avoid damage, and then gets eaten by the power tap attached to the real ae, and you die to the hit. this is obviously worst case scenario, but when deathtouches are delayed 10 seconds and you 'cant cast benefitial spells' you're pretty much just hoping that youll parry up a stoneskin to have up by the time the real damage actually comes. ideally, it would be nice if they triggered when the actual damage received would have been greater than 30% or something like that.

    Im also a fan of adding a % based amount of Str on Chi so that its more useful at endgame.

    lightning fists is basicly useless. suggestions have been said. anything would help. 30s duration of unlimited triggers might show up on a parse. or just up the damage and make it groupwide or something. anything really.

    Battering Onslaught still either needs to be fixed so it scales up to do more damage or just do more damage. its weak for an endline.

    Fighter Gear seems out of balance to me still. People have made many points about how bad it is VS scout gear, so i wont get into that. however, in addition, brawler weps constantly have much lesser stats and block than shields or 2h swords. IE teku 2hers. plate tank one has double the flurry and 25 ae auto vs 10 strikethrough. pretty obvious why thats pretty out of balance. Also, 4 soulwell drinal loot for brawlers is terrible. unless theres more undiscovered mythicals or something. plate fighters get a completely game changing shield, and brawlers get an appearance bp and weps that dont compare to PoW loot. Also, a necklace thats not as good as solo instance trad-able fighter gear.
  17. Estred Well-Known Member

    Hard to keep track of what has been said already :confused:. I think I mentioned or someone did that Plant is extremely ineffective at snapping up Trash in most Raid-Encounters. I think I mostly said the points I want in regards to Guardians... though Many of these ideas I see are repeats of discussions that happened on the Crusader AA and Brawler AA threads. Even some Warrior stuff is now repeated :p.

    Though for this page, I second and agree with Netty's point that Reversal is weak, but needs to keep the shield so that really DW is for DPS-Zerks and Reversal is more for shield-tanking to make up for the missed Off-hand. I believe this was from a post of mine.

    "Reversals base delay should probably start at 10 seconds and be decreased each rank of Reversal of Fortune by .75 seconds maxing out at 4 second delay. This enabled Reversal to trigger often to assist dps and aggro as it should. But limits it from triggering excessively. I think also Reversal would be more useful to Berserkers if it triggered on Parry's and did not actually require a shield to be equipped. It procs MORE with a shield equipped but you do not need one equipped to use the skill."

    Just bringing it over. Ah and before I forget to re-mention it form 2 pages back. Arena Endurance was aimed at providing sustained Power-Save and Health-Regen to the Warrior. When we only had 500hp it accomplished this quite well. However by today's numbers it has fallen by the wayside. I still stand by the suggestions I made previously in this thread regarding that AA.

    As to Avoidence AA adding %Ripost Chance of .5% per rank, I think this is a good idea myself. Mechanics change and as stats inflate unfortunately what used to be fun and workable is now discarded as trash. At rank 5 for these skills is 2.5% I don't want to add too much Ripost because Uncontested indeed has a cap (70% I think).
  18. Rhita Member

    I still favor my suggestion for the warrior tree revamp as well as the guardian changes. Reversal needs an increase in damage, not the ability to proc every 4 seconds. I think every 10 seconds with a damage increase is good as well as removing the shield restriction. As for Uncontested avoidance, I am indifferent about the change, more is nice but isn't needed. New shields have quite a bit of protection on them. As for the change to Arena Endurance, I'd take either change tbh. Just as long as its more than 11hp per CA.
  19. Estred Well-Known Member

    Agreed, by this point there are plenty of good ideas for all Fighter Classes many for the devs to mull over and discuss if they wish to implement any of such ideas. I personally want to thank Xelgad once again for opening these Feedback threads for all classes even as Dexella said they are "timed" threads that will be locked. If further is needed after this is done and AA changes go in (if any) I will mark the AA-Discusion threads with a "spacer" post to mark areas for new AA discussions.
  20. Silzin Active Member

    With this specifically in mind what wood make the Monk class more enjoyable. After a monk gets geared up in all CoE EM raid gear there is very little option in AA choice. I know there are monks using wildly different AA specs, there is almost no choices outside of about 5-10 points. It would be much better if we had a real option to go more Defensive and a way to go more Offensive. Like some of the offered changes to Chi, the Int line abilities, and the Defensive Skill AA's. also giving the Left Prestige line a use so we have a choice to do defensive with it would be better.

    I know there are always abilities that we think are not preforming up to our standards and could be made better so we could be a more powerful class, but Xelgad your Job is to make sure the classes are balanced and i am glad i do not have that job.
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