Focused Fighter Feedback

Discussion in 'Fighters' started by Xelgad, Jan 11, 2013.

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  1. Sixgauge Well-Known Member

    Reckless stance should remove uncontested avoidance.
  2. Davngr Well-Known Member

    i think it would be cool to add in some sort of "aggression aid" to tanks so that in raid even the tanks that are not tanking are still tanking. like coercive shout, where as another tank in the raid/group could aid the tank that is suppose to have agro at any given point even if offensive/reckless.

    that brings about the next point.. reckless is way too powerful for some classes yet pointless for others and the penalty is rightfully harsh but still too harsh for some encounters across the board.
    i recommend making reckless a group buff that is engaged when the tank activates offensive stance. it probably could no longer be double potency but 20% would be an acceptable figure. i guarantee you that every raid would have 4 tanks and as many in offensive as possible.
    raid performance would still stay at the current level or increase. the only loss would be negligible and that would be to the classes that benefit way too much from reckless.
  3. Typos Member

    Ty boli for tackling the hit rate problem. I do appreciatte it.
  4. Liav Active Member


    At a loss for words with how wrong this is.
  5. Hammdaddy Active Member

    Rock Skin:Make rock skin snare the brawler and remove the stun effect.
    Lightning Fists: Change it to unlimited hits for 10 seconds as its current damage is so worthless.
    Brawler Tree: FIne honestly, Would love to see int changed in the future as soon i will not need the reuse in the agility line.
    Bruiser: Same deal perfect
    Shadows: Fine
    Heroic: Great tree however would love to see our death save brought back to 1min 30seconds. Its nerf wasn't needed.
    Prestige: The right side past viscious combo is so terrible i went double conversion for 25% extra crit bonus.
    Oh yeah also bring back immune to strikethrough.
  6. Shonto Member

    Already mentioned, but critical: Strikethrough and Accuracy are practically meaningless to us... they need to be more clearly defined, re-worked entirely, or made to work as described.

    Already danced-around: Aggression. Taunts and positionals, "special effect doesn't work on Epics, lol" aside, are resisted far too often and there is NO way to get more Aggression since its itemization was never real robust and has disappeared completely since... TSO? There aren't even white adorns for it.

    Needs to die: memshuffles. It's a ridiculous mechanic that introduces too much luck.
  7. Sure Active Member

    Top two things I'd like changed on the SK since that my main.

    1. Moving and casting I like it, I like it a lot, make it so, all the time, please.
    2. Certain abilities like Divine Aura need to be instant cast, along with the other stone skin abilities they take too long to cast.

    Nice to have changes and more general to all fighters.

    Double base taunt size, maybe even triple it, I want to be bold and say make them ten times as big as they are right now, its not dps so really no one should complain, where ever it comes from the group, single target, self buff procs, or as a component to another ability, they need to be bigger.

    The three stances (offensive, defensive and reckless), personally I'd like to see them all combined into one buff and drop all the negative stats on the combined buff, stances make sense when doing a duel especially fencing how ever the game isn't fencing style sword play for any tank, the fact we choose between shields+sword, dual wield (fists/swords/hammers/flails etc) or two hand weapons basically sets the tone of the style, it should not be a clicky buff that ignores what we have equipped, we already hot swap weapons middle of a fight as needed as is. The fact reckless will ignore what a tower shield gives you for avoidance is terrible design and implementation and makes no sense any way you choose to spin it, the only way i could a shield being that detrimental is if going reckless welds the shield to you legs such that you can not move and frankly no one but an empty head would do something that dumb if this were real life and we fought real battles etc.

    Mem wipe or hate list dropping/shuffling mobs, I'd like for all the snap aggro abilities to work again, consistently, even stuff like that Ape raid wand with 24 positions of hate isn't working consistently or cleanly/crisply.
  8. Duele Active Member

    Couple things to add just going through some more of the abilities for SKs:

    Innoruuk's Caress - Has meaningless taunt and heal value.

    Taunts (for all Fighters) - are extremely underpowered in their values.

    Bloodletter: Make reusable in combat to be inline with other Death Saves.

    Joust (Crusaders) - double the range on this ability.
  9. Estred Well-Known Member

    I still don't agree with a number of Boli's idea's but I am not going to spark a back and fourth debate as we clearly have different views here. Shonto is right that ST/Acc are worthless to tanks once you break about 25 ACC and 50% Strikethrough... I hardly miss, ever.

    Duele, if you are talking about the numerical values of taunts that are not snaps, I agree with ya there. As per Bloodletter, as it is a Until Triggered type DeathSave with Multiple Triggers it would have to have a long recast like 10 minutes (the same as Unyielding Will) also Divine Favor would have to have a combat recast were this to be seriously looked at.

    Innoruuk's Caress... what was this spell for again? :p
  10. Erszebeth Active Member

    I have to disagree on the long recast requirement should blood letter be made castable in combat, the recast on it is in-line with Vision of Madness and Tenacity in its current form, however, both of those are castable in combat while bloodletter is not. Also, Vision of Madness is a maintained buff that only triggers when you die, and doesn't require any special timing or small window in which to die. If anything, the reuse on Unyielding Will should be brought down to around a base 5-8 minute reuse, as its ridiculously long reuse is out of line with other death save abilities as much as bloodletter not being castable in combat.
  11. Duele Active Member

    Bloodletter also has some other restrictions that other Death Saves do not have. First it takes being a group for it to trigger. Second it takes health from the people in your group.

    Caress is the Taunt Buff that is based on the SK getting hit.
  12. Uncle Active Member

  13. Erszebeth Active Member

    I'm of the opinion SK's for reasons already stated, have the worst death prevent in game, between the group requirement and inability to cast during combat.
    If I had to choose between the 2, I'd say atleast remove the group requirement, would be the biggest change in the right direction for it IMHO.
  14. Estred Well-Known Member

    I could reach a happy middle ground on this with these changes myself (I used to have an SK before she betrayed).

    SK's Bloodletter.
    - Recastable 7 mins base reuse speed, which becomes 3.5 mins with max Reuse.
    - Cut the group damage in half after all it is based on "blood letting" or intentional bleeding.
    - give it 1 more trigger. This puts it on par with Brawlers Tenacity (I think that's the DI)

    Guardian's Unyielding Will
    - Lower the recast to 8 minutes.
    - Have the cooldown start from activation not from the Death-Trigger.
    - Keep the death penalty but perhaps add 2-5% DR or hm... 10% mitigation boost while it is active to reflect the Unyeilding. So it is a Buff-DI.
    - Keep the 3 Minute Duration of the skill.

    If my math is right then SK's don't trash their group so much for 3 DI's over a fight. Although a separate PvP version of this probably must be made. Guardians also get a buff with a recast of every 4 minutes at max not quite as amazing as Tenacity but much better than the 8 minute cool down we have now with Reuse Speed/AA. Thoughts from SK's?
  15. Silzin Active Member

    Estred - you you saying that you think it is best for the game to give Sk's a until consoled 3 trigger death save on a 3.5 minit recast so it can "BE ON PAR with Brawlers Tenacity" ? and you think it is best to change the Guard Death save so it can be up 3/4 of the time. all when the brawlers death save was nurfed since it was up to long for the duration?

    and you really think that is balanced and reasonable?
  16. Erszebeth Active Member

    I don't think Bloodletter should have 3 triggers, I think that would really over do it on balance, Brawlers Tenacity is 3 trigger, but its not maintained, its....without looking I think a 1 minute duration with up to 3 triggers with full AA in it.
    As for Unyielding Will, I think an 8 minute base reuse would be fair tradeoff, but starting AFTER the trigger, to keep it more inline with other death saves.
  17. Estred Well-Known Member

    I was redoing math actually and got to the same conclusion as you Silz. I must yeild that I did not know enough about the skills to make an actual gauged estimation at the time. I retract my previous post as innnaccurate and will try to do some research before posting such an idea and will post such probably later today using proper citations of the base skill and involved AA to reevaluate my stance.
  18. Deathmagus Member

    Actually scouts want the mage wrists for reuse or tank wrists for reuse.

    Either get discretion or learn to toggle sprint/use racial speed increasers to catch up to the mob quickly. This game isn't that hard, and the few scenarios where this is likely to happen in current content you should know when it's going to occur unless it's a trash mob blurring in which case just about everyone can pile up anyways.

    Bruisers, Shadowknights and Berserkers all have tools for this. If they're in your raid they should be using them.

    There are many MANY trash AoE which cannot be timed (they all have their own individual timer) so in order to have a tank in reckessness even on trash you need one healer and themselves to be on permanent "deathsave watch" as all AOE damage is doubled. This is hardly an incentive to have tanks "unneeded" in a raid if you need to dedicate a healer to look after them....better just to get another DPS.

    This goes double on the named.[/quote]

    The damage isn't doubled.. it's increased by 50%... and I think I even said.. if the healers can't handle it or the tank can't joust on a named then they shouldn't be in reckless.

    Yes.. it is amusing to me. Mostly because the charms in current content can be avoided afaik. If you get charmed because you or someone else made a mistake then you should put your big boy pants on and not make the mistakes. Don't simply ask for mechanics to be changed because people cannot follow scripts.

    You can reforge into strikethrough and accuracy in large quantities now. I don't really see the issue here. And the values that are deducted for offensive and defensive stances are nigh trivial. I wear 4 weapon skills adorns on my bp and boots alone just because there really aren't better options. Also, I thought it was the massive reduction to pot that discouraged people from using d-stance.

    So what will those war runes do for scouts? less than they do now? And why would you ruin the stacking of immunity procs... that's just absurd. Just because YOU might not have the items yet to reliably deal with CC from mobs doesn't mean that things should be changed to possibly make things worse for the people that do. Also, until this Xpack my class had NOTHING to deal with CC from mobs and I managed just fine. Go run the zones that drop the items with immunity procs... it's not that hard.

    I might post more later.. but not right now.
  19. Malleria Well-Known Member

    Deathmagus. Re-read the above. Yes, everything suggested *can* be worked around. But the point is to make things more fun and less tedious. So rather than picking apart ideas that would accomplish the above, suggest some yourself.
    Tekadeo likes this.
  20. Estred Well-Known Member

    Ok did some real reserach on the Death-Saves. Here is what I have, these are of course MASTER versions of the spells.

    Brawlers Tenacity (Brawlers)
    Duration: 1 Minute (AA)
    Triggers: 3 (AA)
    Heal: 50%
    Recast: 5 Minutes
    Base Recast: 5 Minutes
    AA Investment: 12 Points
    Con: Short duration.

    Unyeilding Will (Warriors)
    Duration: 3 Minutes 30 seconds (AA)
    Triggers: 1
    Heal: 100% (AA)
    Recast: 8.75 Mintues (AA)
    Base Recast: 15 Minutes.
    Con: Die after it triggers.

    BloodLetter (Shadowknight)
    Duration: Until Canceled
    Triggers: 2 (AA)
    Heal: % Based on Group (AA)
    Recast: 2 minutes 30 seconds (AA)
    Base Recast: 3 Minutes
    Con: Hurts group and needs 2 other people to work.

    Divine Favor (Paladin)
    Triggers: 1
    Heal: 100%
    Recast: 2 minutes 30 seconds.
    Con: Daze/Stifle on Trigger (AA to 0)

    The classes for AA investment to buff thier DI's have the following.
    Brawlers: 12AA
    Warriors: 10 AA
    Crusaders: 5 AA
    * Shadowknights don't really need their AA and Paladins only need 4. They have the lowest investment in their ability.

    Now to look at them all in comparison.
    - Tenacity has no drawbacks other than short duration but has the most triggers of any DI and is castable in combat. However they also have the most AA invested to do this.
    - Warriors unfortunately are killed by their DI once "Deaths Door" Expires and must put full AA into something to avoid it, 10 AA for the Guardian and Bersekrspec for the Zerker and even then Zerks if they have no power are well powerless to stop the Death.
    - Crusaders DI's are indefinite until they trigger, Paladins may cast theirs in combat while SK's cannot. They however invest the least AA and are not forced to do so though Paladins are strongly advised to.

    Of them all Bloodletter is actually the strongest DI, minus the no in-combat recast. They have 2 Triggers and full heal each time if they have at least 3 people total (SK +2 others); a 200% Heal essentially total. Warriors is a 100% heal for Guardians with AA and 48-52% without. Brawlers total heal is 150% with AA. Paladins 1 trigger is 100% as well. Of all of them Warriors have the weakest DI skill in the game and it has an extreme recast delay.

    Yes, Bloodletter maybe should be recastable in-combat... but if it is I would argue 1 Trigger unless they spend that 5 AA. I would suggest that if Bloodletter is changed like that to make it a NEW AA to be introduced later. If any DI is weak it's Unyielding Will.
    - Long recast
    - Death after expiration
    - 1 Trigger.

    Unyielding lasts for 3 minutes so at the lowest possible value I would say a 6 minute recast (that is with 100% Reuse/AA modifications) I would suggest an 8 Minute Base-Reuse Speed and when you die... you gain a 10-20 trigger stoneskin (considering how fast mobs hit this will last 2-5 seconds after death).
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