After proper progression, gear, 100aa, adornments, etc... I'm sure the trash wont take 3-4 hours. There's a sequence to all this stuff.
I say that if I log in once a week, I should be able to clear all the raid zones at once. But I should have to mash lots of buttons. I don't want the easy way. I want to hit ALL my buttons, and THEN beat the zone. And be equal to all others who play all week to raid, and get items because of it.
i'd rather have to kill 10 "nameds" that drop no loot at all in an instance to get to the boss, than killing 100 trash mobs which are unfun cause they're lacking creativity. let me figure out 10 strategies for 10 unique mobs plus one for the boss. guess this would be more fun.
So here's my take on things, background first: 70 in a "normal?" raiding guild. Not casual, not hardcore, not alliance. It seems that while there's an "appropriate" amount of overland-zone "trash" there should be a few (read 1-3) more Named including "rare" spawns. While I'm sure most guilds in any fashion have adequate guild funds, it seems there should be more "loot" drops. And by "loot" drops I mean cash. No Fabled dropping from the trash. Rarely medium-low Legendary from trash. Occasional Treasured from trash. Example: 1000 trash in zone (don't start flaming already arbitrary easy number) 30% drop rate: 300 mobs 15% cash (and I'm not talking 50 silver either): 150 mobs 15% items: 150 mobs 5% body drops: 50 mobs 10% item drops: 100 mobs 6% "common" "vendor loot" "artisan" "status loot" drops: 60 mobs 3% Treasured drops: 30 mobs 1% Legendary drops: 10 mobs 5% chance of Treasured/Legendary drops being Master chests with Master spells not "Fabled" equipment: 2 out of 1000 mobs That's a liitle more like the kind of loot we should find in such a hard/challenging/difficult/long/epic/super/current endgame zone. Am I totally off base here? If you want to label this as the "Epic Overland Zone" shouldn't it at least resemble an overland zone in most respects? I look at sharing say 6plat between 24 people in cash (would help with minor repairs unless your guild/raid are complete idiots/jerks and don't let cash get distributed from corpse looting). A bit of extra body/vendor loot for sharing amongst friends (again if that doesn't get randomed amongst the raid there's serious greed going on). A few items for the guild/raid to cash in on or transmute (Treasured) and maybe 12 items that 24 people may or may not be able to use other than Named MOBs. Look at it this way: if you killed 1000 mobs in any zone, wouldn't you expect to see at least this much loot? Why shouldn't it be the same for an Epicx4 Raid zone? It's all about the reward for taking down copius amounts of mobs that need 18-24 people. 2% Loot=Not acceptable 20% Loot=Possibly acceptable Is it wrong to want something more than a potential shot at the dozen items you'll get off 3-4 Nameds in a zone? Unless those nameds are dropping 7-10 Legendary+ items I think my example wouldn't be offensive or imbalancing nor would it take the "edge" out of raid progression.
There is a HUGE difference between difficult and something that is so boring people want to shoot themselves. People need to learn the difference. There is nothing wrong with zones being a challenge but, there is something wrong with the way this zone is implemented, in that it's boring as heck. Difficult encounters are one thing. Encounters who's sole purpose is to waste your playtime and cause a yawn fest, is not difficult, just stupid and boring. Just some people and dev members can't tell the difference between challenging and boring. All this trash isn't challenging. It doesn't make the zone more challenging. It just makes it 100 times more boring than it needs to be. It just chews up your playtime more than it should. The trash shouldn't drop fabled but, it should drop something. I say reduce the amount of trash and up the drop rate of maybe treasured, etc., with a chance of legendary class armor, like you get in these group zones. At least it would be worth the hassle. EQ2 has a HUGE disparity between risk/time/effort and reward. Message Edited by Scortch on 11-21-2006 05:24 PM
Trash mobs in raids zones should drop nothing more then Adepts if anything. This zone is for the named. I dont want to hear 4 months down the road EH trash mob grp looking for more. So keep them dropping nothing.
Of course, there should be no army defending the orc lord, or Mayong. I mean, cmon, there should be no drones waiting to defend Wuoshi. Seriously, there is a lore reason, and an in-game reason to have trash. It's a timesink, timesinks are needed to keep people playing, without a timesink there is just go and burn everything down because all we have to do is worry about the named and get our loot and go home. The lore reason is as I just stated.
right! there should be an army. 1000 mobs attacking at the same time. that would be an army. i want creativity, uniqueness, fun. beating the crap out of trash is not fun. it's a blunt slap in the face screaming "time goes by, time goes by, time goes by..." raids should last long, but they should be fun, not boring and repetitive.
IMO, the trash from the latest expansion should require strategy from the nameds of the previous expansions, while the nameds require new ones. So for T6, you could just take all the nameds from T5, change their appearence, give em different names, and just boost their level and stats (maybe not HP, just cuz its trash now and doesnt drop any loot, and it should go down faster). Then for T7, use T5 and T6 strats for trash, and new strats for nameds. Etc.
last weekend: 4 hours of fighting, 0 (zero, none, nothing) chest drops. Lots of tries on the rumbler until someone found out on the forums that its buggy. Sorry, but what is the fun in that. Not everyone has 6-8 hours time for a single raid. Either take out some of the trash, give them less HP or give them loot. I like some of the trash doing funny things like the sporelings from the fungi. There could be a lot of fun in the zone, but just hard=hours of trash bashing? No @ Lyndro: is it possible you missed the itemization for all of the trashmobs? Looks like noone had any drop in there yet, except the nameds after fixing them. Message Edited by Ebarel on 11-22-2006 03:14 PM
Huge timesinks make for a boring **** game. Massive amounts of trash wiht massive amounts of health with no loot = massive timesink = massively boring. Bugged content because the xpak was rushed out yet again, makes for a crappy gameplay, which ruins the fun you could have had. Message Edited by Scortch on 11-22-2006 02:22 PM
In the ranger forums they are claiming a ranger bow, and ranger leggings etc have droppe doff of a named wolf in there. Wind Shaped Longbow I think one was. Fabled 130 ish to 430 ish with a 445 proc or something. Id like to know if its itemized or not, so i know if its worth my time to go in
We had only 3 named up when we went in. Ran out of time before people had ot leave. Killed one named and got 1 whole item. Whoop te do. What ever happened to chest like Djinn Master? If we are going to be stuck with doing boring **** trash, at least make the named chest worth it when we FINALLY get to them. I say poorly itemized at the moment.
Why does everyone want instant gratisfaction? You have plenty of content in KoS which offers instant gratisfaction, even content in EoF which offers it, timesinks are necessary to keep us playing four months down the road, I want upgrades to be existent until a week before the next adventure pack or expansion pack. Don't try to ruin the one zone that we have been wanting, for a long, long time. There is plenty more content for you to experience without ruining the one zone we enjoy. As for the suggestion of fabled set items dropping off trash, I don't know if you were being sarcastic or if you're truely [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but I personally do not want KoS 2.0, thank you.
I'm all for making raids more challenging. It's a good idea. But I hope when all the zones are balanced and the bugs are worked out, there is still a couple zones to get your feet wet in, as Labs and Lyceum should be. The last thing we need is a repeat of tier 5 in which the designers made all the raid content laughably easy at release. A few months later, after a few of the 'top' raid guilds were fully fabled, they screamed to make it all harder, thus slamming the door on up and coming guilds and effectively removing the chance for anyone else to get the free ride they got. I think KoS zones should be about the same difficulty they were pre EoF and zones in the new expansion should be the next step from there. There's still some bugs, so we'll see. I, a level 70 berserker, got my butt handed to me in Lyceum tonight by Gnorbl--and I'm in full fabled tier 7 gear, with every 60+ master, over 60 AA, and all the new tier 7 adornments that recently became available. So, obviously that zone ain't balanced. that's my 2 cp
As a Raider not on par with Disso and others, I LOVE THIS ZONE!! Please dont give trash any loot, I woudl like to see more zones like this one, and actually I think, not from experience, that Woushi (sp?) should be harder, with a reward worth the risk. (same goes for inner sanc ) This woudl keep uber guilds from completeing EoF in month. Please do not Dumb down this zone for the masses. The reason ppl want loot from Trash is they dont want to have to risk anything for there reward, they want everything handed to them on a silver platter. We'll.. GO TO LABS
