Chromatic Essence only off nameds?

Calthine wrote:

I wouldn't call an item that only raises your house item limit by 50 fabled.

I, again, will say that I have no problem with it being a hard to come by item for the broker slot/house vault increase or anything else it might be used for but requiring it for the increased house count item isn't justified.

Also, I know you have been around for a very long time. You know that the game was promoted with having crafters that do not have to be adventurers. Adventurers do not need to rely on crafters in anyway in this game so crafters should not need to rely on adventurers to get the "best" recipes and items.

We all know you are buddy buddy with Domino but it would be nice if you would take a step back and actually look at the splinter of a bone that is being tossed to us objectively. Crafters are being forced to unequally rely on a group of people for things that do not need to rely on them.

Crafters should not need to rely on adventurers for the best of the best and crafters should not be forced to be high level adventurers to get the best of their best.

Svetlanavera@Nagafen wrote:

Frankly, I applaud this new concept. The crafter can get the recipe on his own work and the adventurer still has to come to the crafter to get something -special- made with that item he got. Neither is better than the other, they both come to the table with something.

These are not recipes you need to level. The product of the recipes are something different, something special that cannot be obtained in any other way.

You keep harping on the one item, the +50 items for the house, and making it the sole focus of why you think this is unfair to the crafter. It isn't unfair. You can get the shard even if you're not an adventurer, it's tradable. The adventurer cannot get the recipe unless he is a high level carpenter -and- has faction.

Sure, it's easier to get faction as an adventurer and it's easier to get the drop as an adventurer, but do you really think it's easier for the adventurer to all of a sudden take up crafting and switch it around to each of the classes to get all the items they want?

Ya know, back when the EH stuff was being put in, THIS method is what I advocated. BOTH adventurer and crafting bringing something equally to make something special. I'm glad that's what's happening.

Calthine wrote:

Sorry but the smoldering reflective shards on my server have only been easy to get for a few weeks and that's because they upped the drops. Before that, at least on my server, they were a steady 50 plat. I chose not to wait and bought one at the higher price, but then again, I am level 80 adv level and I have that kind of plat. Many lower levels players do not.
No one is saying that we want the drops to be easy to come by, just reasonable.

These new items can only be as good as they are hard to get. If everyone has stacks of essences then the quality of these new RoK crafted items would have to come down, because they'd be so ridiculously common.
The two charm items provs get are the best charm items in the game, hands down. I would hope something like that takes some effort to acquire and isn't on everyone's toon by the end of the first week 43 is live.

I'm not thrilled to see that the components only drop from t8 named either, especially such a limited set of named. The difference I see between the essence and the smoldering reflective shard is that the shard was used to create an item that was specifically used by adventurers with enough AAs to want to move them around regularly. Many of the items created by the essences are not solely adventurer-oriented items.
I think it'll be alright if they have a significant chance to drop from the named, because then they would be readily available fairly cheaply on the broker. However, if they have the chance the smoldering reflective shards had when they first came out (which I never saw until they upped the drop rate recently), non-adventuring crafters are screwed and will be grinding faction and making items solely for other players. Maybe a favored adventurer will give you an essence so you can make/get the buffing statue for yourself out of gratitude for all your hard work, or maybe you'll just say a few expletives and stop grinding faction just because you hear some cool new recipes are coming out.
I know I wont be jumping for joy at talk of new recipes again until I find out what new and interesting item they create for such specific purposes is coming.

P.S. How about using incarnadine instead of tynnonium on statues? Piles of incarnadine and nothing to do with it...

Edit: I rechecked and it seems the crafter-buffing statues only require tynnonium. Although I'd prefer they required incarnadine, I have less issue with the implementation of essences now. The house and vault expanders using essences is... unfortunate, but I guess they are only for t8 adventurers and the wealthy crafters if essences are so rare.

Calthine wrote:

Until last month you couldn't touch one of these shards for less than 40 plat on AB. That was if you were lucky enough to find one for sale. Now they sell for TWO GOLD. That's what I paid for one the other day. Heck, people are using lots of these mirrors just to make decorations! Check out this thread: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=409297
What happened is that the drop rate was increased after massive complaints by both adventurers and crafters alike and now they're easily available to the average player. I fully support anything that makes for a better gaming experience for the average gamer.
There's a difference between being a bit tough to come by and being darn near impossible to get unless you're in a raiding guild. I just hope it leans more towards the former and not the latter.

Anasur@Antonia Bayle wrote:

So let me get this straight... you're asking that the chromatic essences, which Calthine says are required to make fabled crafted items, should be so common they sell for 2gp on the broker and every player in the game has every item that requires them made?
Fabled equipment is nowhere close to a mirror for your house that holds an AA profile. So I seriously hope I'm misunderstanding you.

Gaigex@Kithicor wrote:

I agree, it is unfortunate, but the quality of the items thrown to the Provie class have to set the bar for the drops. Max level chars are still using the noob Gorowynn items for lack of charm slot items, and these two recipes are far and above any other charm items I have seen.
So, really, the items used to create these have to be as rare to drop as a corresponding Fabled charm with similar stats. Exceedingly rare.
It makes no difference that the same items are used to create lesser goods, or house fluff. The ball got dropped on everyone when Provies were given this sort of item. They are the best in game, and shouldn't be an entitlement to anyone, period.
Would have been same deal if Carps had gotten a Rigid Scale Potted Plant recipe.

Svetlanavera@Nagafen wrote:

You do realize that from level 1 to 49 your totally dependent on adventurers to get your advanced crafting books? That in t5 they had fabled recipes for fabled items that required fabled drops which all dropped from epic mobs? This was the origional build of the game. If your claiming that crafting wasn't dependent on adventuring for at least some aspects of crafting...your ignoring the design of the game.
Yes, methods for us to gain books were introduced later. However, the only way a pure crafting character could get court membership to buy the tradeskill books for Desert of Flames was to buy tokens from adventurers. Or just buy the advanaced books, from adventurers. Notice a pattern here?
Your compaint about crafters having to depend on high level adventurers to make special items... Itemization currently runs that crafted items arn't as good as legendary items. So, why are these items being compaired to fabled items if they are crafted? Maybe because they are obtained in the same way that legendary/fabled items are? The items that will require Chromatic Essence could of very well been dropped directly from mobs and skipped us all together. Or it could be like the VP gems that are turned into a vendor for fabled set armor. Or it could be that they were scrapped all together and we would have all the recipes that do not involve some rare dropped item and we probably would of been happier without such a thing judging by the reactions in this thread.
Maybe we as crafters don't DESERVE to make something like this. We certainly don't seem to be grateful in being involved in T8 legendary/fabled items. I personally have been asking for something like this for months. I see it as a way to get us involved again in quality items. A way to bring a little pride to being a crafter. If we convice the developers of EQ2 that we don't want things like this, we'll probably never be given the opportunity to make items like this again. On the other hand, if this works well then we might see more of it next expansion. So, once you actually have some hands on experience with it, I think feedback would be very good. Right now, your chasing vapors.
Compaining about the drop rate before it goes live seems silly. Will it be ultra rare? Probably. How ultra rare? I don't know. I'd figure at least as rare as master 1s now. Maybe even more so. However, until its been out for at least a week you don't really know. Complaining about it now is just reactionary.
As for going back to the +50 items thing...if you can't afford to pay for something that I at this point consider to be somewhat like the pre LU-42 Reflective Shard, then maybe you should wait for the price to come down. Master 1 books were going for 100p at launch, they've come down a bit since then. Hardly anyone pays more than 30p for a master 1 now. If you really are broke, then how can you afford to live in a hall? If your arn't living in a hall, move. It should be cheaper than this item. As far as I'm concerned, its like an adornment for your house. It is suppose to be rare and much like fabled adornments seems like a small improvement. But it is a small improvement on something that you can improve otherwise. Also this is a 10% improvment over a hall's current limits. That is a significant change.

After spending the entire weekend grinding faction on my 26 fury/80 provo to get from 10k to 30k in Danak and -40k to 10k faction in Riliss (20k more to go!), all I can say is:
These final charm slot items better not be like the AP switcher mirrors and be commission-only (no-trade). If I have busted my virtual butt and have worn out my fingers and brain doing writs, only to find out that I cannot make a charm slot item for my raiding swashy...I will be less than happy. Grats to everyone else that I can make this for, but screw you main character...you'll have to go out and find someone else to make the charm slot item. What's the purpose of being able to level up your own support crew of crafters if you can't help your other toons out that are all on one single account? I'm not talking about the epic tradeskill quest combines, either, because I was able to get help from other crafters on all 5 of my crafters. As well, my level 80 swashy raider/80 alchy made his own mirror, and since I do not play my tradeskillers in combat, I have no need for a mirror on them.

I think alot of people in this thread are looking way too hard into these changes. Step back and take a look at this:
Over 70 of the new recipies do not need the Chromatic Essense.
The recipies that do need it, do the following are mostly for level 77 Adventurers:
3 Neck slot items: One for healers, one for Casters and one for Melee all level 77 adventurer required (so low level tradeskillers need not worry)
4 Chest pieces (one for each armor type, cloth, leather, chain and plate) Again, level 77 adventurer
2 cloaks for level 77 Adventurer
2 Belts for level 77 Adventurer
1 Earing for level 77 Adventurer
2 secondary items 77 Adventurer (one int based, one wis based)
2 Charm items, 77 Adventurer
And what are the items that do not require a 77 adventurer and still use a chromatic essence? only 2:
1 Vault Expander
1 Dimentional Pocket Expander
Both of these items are for use in houses only, and are really not that "uber" when all things are concidered.
If you are a level 77 adventurer, chances are that you will be doing named killing anyways, so you have a good chance to see these chromantic essenses and if you want one item for each slot represented above, you will need a total of 6 chromatic essences. Now unless the drop rates of the named are going to be super rare, I don't forsee this being a problem for the adventurer OR the low level crafter, since the only things that the low level crafter would want are the vault expander or dimentional pocket expander.
Again, I think the issue is being blown a bit out of proportion. 70+ recipies that do not use the chromatic essense, 16 that do use it but are for level 77+ adventurers vs 2 items that use the chromatic essence and can be used by a low level adventurer. Not something to get worked up about.

Freliant wrote:

I completely agree with this entire post.

I wish they could replace the chromatic essences in those two recipes (Dimensional Pocket Expander and Vault Expander) with something which is a little more attainable for low level adventurers. What about using incarnadine instead? That poor, unwanted rare isn't worth squat at the moment - but if these two recipes would required one, it would maybe help make it a little more in demand?

I also think that solution would be a little more fair towards those high level crafters who are low level adventurers. The other items can't be worn by them anyways, but these two is something that would interest a lot of people regardless of their adventure level. Why not let them have a relatively equal chance of enjoying it?

Meirril wrote:

Svetlanavera@Nagafen wrote:

You play on a PVP server and you honestly believe adventuring is not dependent on crafting?

I don't see why these essences can be put on random mobs as drop as opposed to names in dungeons. That eliminates soloers from getting the stuff.
It seems that SOE is taking the direction lately of nerfing solo play in terms of getting items needed by your crafters. I do know that this shard was obtainable solo but it doesn't sound like the CHromatic essence will be. I think that needs to change.

Maroger wrote:

The point is that it isn't NEEDED by crafters. It's -special- crafting, not required for leveling.

Rijacki wrote:

I think Maroger's point was that the chromatic essence is not available to solo players. I agree with him. This needs to be changed. I have really enjoyed the solo play in ROK but getting groups in hard, as usual.
I belong to a guild, a fairly big guild, but there are just not enough people on all the time. In the game in general, there aren't enough people on to make grouping easy. Perhaps the game can put some solo named mobs out in the main game areas or create some solo instances with named mobs that can be fought by all classes, not just fighters.

Svetlanavera@Nagafen wrote:

I've read the quote in bold many times and I don't understand it.
I got into crafting because crafters were charging 1 plat per item for tier 2 armor. I was a complete noob. I was forced into a situation of spending plat I did not have. So I dealt with it.
I created a thread just this week describing how I've crafted for 2 solid months to buy expensive items off the broker. I did not say it was wrong. I was just describing my experience. I'm dealing with it.
If there is an expensive item I want and cannot get it myself I raise the money or I do without.

By the way, my main has maybe 4 transmuter skill points, but I'll switch him to tinkering now. So the "I want everything" tinkerer thread helped me out. Thanks for that.

Silken@Butcherblock wrote:

Everything in the game does not need to be available to solo players and/or non-adventurers and/or non-crafters (and/or even non-raiders). Special stuff should be special and require a bit more effort. There should always be items which require -more- to get them than just solo adventuring, jsut crafting, just group adventuring, or even than just raiding (no, I am not in the crowd of "only raiding should get THE best items", I think they, too, should be encouraged to do other things from time to time.. even to get THE best stuff).

Amphibia wrote:

I totally agree. I am honestly not concerned with charm slot items or jewelry etc. needing the essence since they are wearable by 77 adventures and anyone of that level or above can go to the places where the essence drops.
The vault item and the house limit item are different IMO. Many many people will want/use these. I have a hunch that there are many high level TS'ers/lower adv level that have houses and would really benefit from this. In this case, there is no adv level requirement and they are related to housing/decorating/tradeskill more than the other items. I believe they should be treated differently since they *are* indeed different.
Perhaps instead of an essence, they could require say a reflective shard plus a T8 rare or even (2) T8 rares. There are many creative combinations of items that could be used. Heck you could even require 1 of each T8 rares. Maybe use items currently in game like the runes from Sinking sands...say 5 different ones of those + T8 rare. There are so many items in game not currently being used much anymore. Maybe a T8 rare plus an item that can be bought off of Any Norrath TS or ADV faction guild (meaning TS faction merchants or mage/priest/fighter/scout writ factions) with 10K, 20k, 30k faction, whatever seems reasonable. So many ways to do it that require work/faction but not a high level rare drop.
What I'm saying is that on these 2 items, I don't think it's necessary or even *fair* for lack of a better word, to use the essences. I hope I've given some ideas above. I think there is another way to make the component for these 2 items more doable for lower level adv but not easy either. Maybe others of you might have different ideas.