Discussion in 'Tradeskill Discussion' started by ARCHIVED-Nemisiis, Mar 1, 2008.
Yes, I want to maximise my dps (toka is a mage), so I am 'forced' to wear any gear that I can obtain that helps me the most toward this end.
Thus atm I am still using BCG and Invoker from T7, and my dirge is using MC melodic stuff (3 slots), imbued rings and the +2 mele crit MC belt.
I think its important to note that no one is besmirching crafters these items (I have several 80 crafters myself). I would just ask that better items are availabe to people who choose to invest the time / effort / coordiantion required to clear the raid dungeons.
For stuff like the charm slot items, that means releasing them and, at the same time, adding similar items of a higher quality to raid mobs loot tables. Not releasing them and then promising that loot tables will be re itemised 'at a future date'.
Its obviously a risk versus reward argument:
Contested mobs are the most challenging encounters in the game and should therefore provide the biggest rewards for beating them.
You (should) then follow a kinda linear decrease in the quality of loot tables as you work back through the raid tiers untill you arrive at legendary/fabled drops from group instances, followed by MC stuff.
Raiders do not argue that they put more time in (I reackon I spend more time crafting those bloody 10min drinks for our tanks than I do actually raiding ), the argument is that the stuff they do do is exponentially more difficult.
I solo, it is my preferred playstyle. I also craft, and use crafted. It works fine for me and t8 is pretty nice.
Looking at my Chromatic recipes, Bow of Flame and the Danak Kite, niether of these is particularly mind blowing, nice, but not WOW nice.
The Provie charm slot items are OMG WOW nice. As such, they should be rare. It really doesn't matter what other items are made from the Chromatic, the stats on these two items demand that the component not be an entitlement to ANYONE, regardless of playstyle. It is unfortunate that other items made from chromatics will be rare/expensive, but that doesn't change anything.
Honestly, if I blow a Chromatic on a Bow combine I should be dragged with horses around execution square and then staked out in commonlands for Hyenas to chew on. And, if Chromatics become so common as to enable me to make Bows with them, the stats on the Charm items need to be cut by 50% to reflect commonality. The chromatic should never reach a point of being commonly acquired through Broker adventuring, the charm items are just far too good for that.
Things this good should be a hard worked for goal. Period. They aren't manditory by a long stretch, they are endgame.
And, if you are a pure crafter, you should be looking at the house item as endgame. Something you may, or may not see, not as an entitlement but as an endgame Fabled house Adorn. Something you may have to hire thugs for, sell your soul to your combat buddies, bargain and cajole for.
People are looking at 100 item house expansions as some sort of gimme. It isnt, and should be worked as hard for as the Charm item, and if that requires interaction with Adventure people, so be it. Like many other items in game, IF I choose to forego the group experience and playstyle, by default I forego those rewards.
As a crafter in Pre NGE SWG I had long and rewarding associations with pure Adventure people. I needed them, they needed me, and we both got items niether could get on their own. There is nothing wrong with that system.
Ok, I'm noticing a pattern here. In the last several posts you have made, you seem to adamantly ignore what everyone is telling you. You do NOT need to farm contested named in contested dungeons for this essence. By your own admission, you wasted hours trying to reach mobs that may, or may not be up. Why not just run an instance, and get your essence? You could have killed over 25 named mobs in the time you wasted farting around in Seb.
Last night was raid night for me, so no opportunity to get any of the named for me. Bet you I'll get one tonight, though. I plan on running CoA, VoES, and Maidens at a minimum.
Honestly, I can't fathom why you'd even think mobs in an open dungeon would be free on patch night in the first place. I would not even think of trying the contested mobs, especially with the recent uptck in groups heading for them for epic updates.
The problem doesnt lie in the drop rate of this item. You can get this off instanced mobs not only the contested named in Sebiliis and Chardok (whom by the way drop 71-75 masters now too so expect more competition for those anyway). Run the instances - it took 2.5 hours last night to run VoES, Maidens, CoA and Chelsith. I had bad luck last night for drops, it happens. On an average 2 essences per instance were dropping per instance as reported by others last night.
Those charms are the best in the game, I think we should be grateful the essences arent no-trade raid drops to be perfectly honest.
I agree I find it odd that the essence is used as the component for the expanders but seriously, you make multiple of them with a single essence but you can use only 1. I think the problem you are going to face in using that method is finding someone with an essence that is going to want to make a housing item expander BEFORE they get their charms, not likely.
Give it a week or so, the issue will work itself out, the drop rate is good and is in places that are being run daily by large numbers of people.
Remember that mannequins were considered initially as a level 80 guild reward, which admittedly would have sucked, but pointedly, be glad the expanders dont take 6 silicates to make. The cost and drop rate of those hasnt changed in months, the essence has a much better drop rate
Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:
Not only that but people can only use 1 Charm iteam, so unless they are Twinking thier alts(its a Lvl77 iteam so thier alt would have to be a high lvl), then they are going to use thier next Essence on either the Chest piece armor, the Neck Piece or the 2 house iteams, so at worst(because their are better neck and chest pieces available) by people's forth Essence they will be getting 2 Vault Expanders or House Expanders, but can only use one of the two they get. What do you think they will do with the other one? Sell it ofcourse.
If you know it doesn't require a raid, then why in God's name do you keep mentioning raiders?
For what it is worth, I wasn't soloing in Seb last night, I logged in there. I wanted to see who was beating up what, so I hit '/' before calling out.
If you are taking four or five hours to do all the instances in ROK, you are doing something wrong. Somebody earlier mentioned they ran one of them in 45mins. If you want the possibility to loot this item from a named mob, spend the 45mins in COA. There are, what, like six or seven named mobs in there?
I do agree that the vault expander and the other one do not deserve to be made with the rare. They aren't limited to adventurers and are not nearly as powerful as the charm slots. Those shouldn't require the same rare that the most powerful item for those slots requires, it just doesn't make any sense.
Wait, what? That'd better not be the case. My trouby fully intends on having one of each. I want the int/sta and spell damage charm so that my spells can be boosted, and I want the str/sta and CA damage charm so that my CAs can be boosted. I could see some melee-specced priests doing the same, the only issue there being that they'll be miffed there's no charm with int/str and +heals.
Edit - Oh yes, I'll second (Fifth? Ninth?) the suggestion to quit complaining about the fact that the wall isn't moving, and walk around it instead. Visit CoA or VoES; they're ridiculously easy to finish with a competent group, and it should take all of about 2 hours tops. Visit Chelsith, lots of named in there even if you've already done all the quests and epic updates everyone needs.
Or, you can keep trying to snatch the same electric muffin.
Bzzt. Ow. Bzzt. Ow. Bzzt. Ow. Bzzt. Ow. Bzzt. Ow. Bzzt. Ow. Bzzt. Ow. Bzzt. Ow.
But obliviously, there is no real "risk" involved neither in raiding, grouping ,soloing or crafting. That is my point really NOBODY takes any risk...you don't loose anything if the raid fails..NOTHING..you don't loose anything if the group wipes NOTHING and the same is true for everything else. The small inconvenience anyone experiences are not even that as at the moment they switch those computers off the world they have been is is gone. All the oh so great effort, risk and whatever is nothing but pure fantasy.It has no implications that would be a "risk" to the player as a person. It would be a risk if the result would be that if the raid wipes the monthly subscription would go up..yes that would be a real risk and I bet raiders would be a dying breed.
What I try to say here is that we all soloers, crafters, groupers and raiders need to step back and get a grip on reality and see that EVERYONE in this game is equal. We all pay the exact same amount per subscription..if someone has more then one ..ok ...his choice but in the end its the same amount for each one. We are all customers that pay for our enjoyment and nobody, nobody has a right to anything different just because his playing style is raiding or soloing or grouping or crafting. This is my biggest beef with some of the hardcore "elitist" that think the game and the world revolves around them and they are entitled to more then others just because they chose a style of playing the game that is different ...lucky they are in the minority or this game would be deserted of casual players..and that would have the demise of the "hardcore raiders" as the result...as they depend as much on the casual player as the casual player depends on the hardcore player...Spending more "time" in the game makes NO difference as it does not mater to the subscription if you play one hour a month, 10 hours 100 hours or not at all. The time you put in is your choice for your entertainment..but does NOT entitle you to anything more then the other player. Unless SOE changes the subscription and institutes a "tiered" payment system..this will not change.
I like to raid..casually,, sometimes once a month sometimes not for 3 or 4 month... if I find a guild that occasional needs a average mage because they find nobody better..and thats ok with me..I don't mind I enjoy it. I am not spec for maximum DPS and raiding efficiency and I really don't want to as it is not my preferred style of playing. But do I ever think I would be entitled to anything because I join them in that raid or because I raid...absolutely not not even if I would change my mind and start raiding as my main play style.
I do not think the game should have the recipe for a household item depend on drops from named MOBs. Period. That's a period at the end of the sentence. I don't care if I can run 25 instances a night. It's the fact that named MOBs have to drop the item and the item is selling for 48 P that annoys me. These household items should not be based on such rares. Please don't tell me how to get the rare or where to get it. I know that. I am objecting here that I don't think it fair that this rare be used for household items and for adventuring gear. This is similar to the mirror fiasco. However the game changed its approach and made that rare drop from common MOBs. Therefore, that rare can be bought at a reasonable price. This will not be true of something that is not only used for the household items but also for uber adventuring gear.
1. That's not what you said in the prior post, where you complained of having spent hours in Seb without any gains, which is why the responses tended to be in the vein of "go to the right place then." It's tough to discuss issues like this with people who insist on altering the terms of the discussion whenever they feel they're doing poorly.
2. The bit before the "period" is not the same as the bit after the "period" - which indicates that the period is not, in fact, the conclusive ending to the thought you implied it to be. It's not that it depends on drops from named mobs (period). It's that you didn't get one, and that in order for you to press the Easy button, you'll (currently) have to pay nearly 50 plat.
3. If you want it that badly, pay the money or do the instances, but it'd be nice if you could quit complaining about it. If you want it badly enough to expend this much effort complaining, you should have no problem getting others motivated to go with you. Alternatively, wait a week or so when (based on what I'm seeing people say about the drop rate) it should sell for several gold rather than several plat.
Your issues are not of game mechanics or imbalance, but of impatience. And that's not my problem, nor Sony's, but yours alone. In the words of Bubblegum Tate... Deal with it.
Yea me either, I want the Carpenter book from the Tender in EH put on the vendors, along with the growth seeds because I want my Floret of Growth for my house. Oh wait, that item comes from Emerald Halls you say, as a rare drop from one of the hardest mobs in the game pre-Rok, what?? That house item by the way allows you to teleport to GFay from your house. Its a house item that is useful and yes, it comes from the single hardest raid zone in the game pre-Rok.
If the item is selling for 48p on your server give it a week. It was selling for 20p on exchange server last night, as of lunch today it was down to 11p. Fully expect that after the weekend it will drop below a plat (unless of course the drop rates get tweaked and then all bets are off).
Tons of items are based on rares, the more rare the item used to make something, typically the more useful the item is. The items are going to be useful so I fail to see the real issue at the moment.
The AA mirror "fiasco" is not similar in any fashion. The reflective shards always dropped from trash mobs since the first day it was in the game, personally I never saw it drop from anything but trash. The problem with the reflective shard was the drop rate was mythical. When you kill hundreds of 75-77 solo mobs over and over for weeks before you get a single drop, yeah, thats kind of an issue for a swap device that was not supposed to be that ultra rare. After additional testing and tuning, SOE made the appropriate changes. But hey, I got my Froglok hunter title out of the deal as well so what are you going to do?
Relax, you are still going to be able to decorate your house with the additional items. I want to work on mine too but good grief....
You are trying to mix reality with fantasy. It doesn't work that way. The risk in adventuring is incurring XP debt (at max level you don't care until the next expansion is about to be released), starting what you were doing over (which sucks when the mob was below 20%), and repair bills. When was the last time you spent over a plat because you kept failing a combine or tried to learn a new recipe?
Not only are you a lot more likely to die in a raid (more risk), but you need that stuff that should be dropping from raids to progress. Itemization right now is dorked up beyond belief, but the way it is suppose to work is you get solo/group gear to be able to do entry level raids. Then those raids prepare and gear you up for the next tier, and so on.
The fabled stuff doesn't drop from solo mobs because you don't NEED that stuff to progress and kill more solo mobs. How boring would the game be if solo mobs dropped the updates for the mythical weapons? You can then kill all the solo stuff with next to no risk. Yippee! Do you need fabled armor that has a ton of resists for solo mobs? I've yet to see a solo mob that would almost one-shot a mage with an AE if he didn't have the right resist.
That is what people mean by risk. Not this insane notion you have of making people sit on uncomfortable chairs to raid, or losing their subscription. That is beyond stupid. If you like that model of game, go check out Second Life. It might be better if you have no concept what people mean by risk and what is needed to progress.
People are telling you how/where to get the rare because of your incessant whining about farming Sebilis for 8 hours on patch day instead of running CoA and killing 8 guaranteed named. You're calling something too rare without even looking for it in the right place.
OK i know this isn't helping this thread much other then I told you so.. But 2nd day and the broker has them down to 17p granted still rather high but this is the 2nd day!!!!!!!! Yea these are hard to get.. whatever, why did we need this whine thread again i forgot...
in a week or two they will be below the price of most T8 rares ..
Just a comment on risk vs reward of crafting vs raiding:
I've died more often harvesting in Kylong Plains than I did when I was raiding Courts once a week.
Admittedly, this is usually because I'm in the middle of a harvest and have the hotbar with my harvest macro in primary slot when some wurm stomps over and starts munching, so I spend the first 10 seconds trying to mine the mob before I remember to swap my hotbar...
Still, there's risk involved!
LOL, thank you for that, lol!!
Seriously thou, now with the buffs being persistant once you put the charm on you don't need any serious macro to get a harvest, just right click the harvest. Although along the same vein I have been trying to attack a harvest cause of that wurm beating on me.. Was always curious why that harvest never took any damage!! lol Oh yea retarget .. gee
I just "F" them (sucks when my finger slips and hits "G" and I can't figure out why, for a sec or two, I'm not getting the harvest animation)
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