I was a Ranger. Betrayed a couple days ago. The difference in dps between Assassin and Ranger in solo play is minimal. However get into a group or raid and my Assassin (same level, same gear, same group) goes from a widely fluctuating 2-4th place on parse (as a ranger) to a steady and solid first place. The difference in DPS was immediately noticeable. A necro who had consistently out dps'ed my Ranger was easily getting beaten by my Assassin. Just from first hand experience of making the jump between the two classes, I have to say that Lockeye is either completely running on bad information or else just making up random statements to try and calm customers.
Labs run merge. I am the only ranger on the raid as usual. Names removed to protect the innocent. My only fear is that posting these leads to "changes" to other classes. I was also experimenting this night, I respecced to AGI and INT and was testing combos, I think I am actually a little higher than this shows. Caveats, I removed parses where I died early on to an aggro issue, all my fault This is a small casual raiding guild, we raid 3-4 nights a week, kill Tarinax weekly, do not race to contested mobs. We are working on the latest Ad pack and just tried Venekor the first time the other night (mid week raid so we usually wrap up early before trying him). We are not an elite uber raiding force but we get the job done and have fun doing it. Allies: (53:34) 34204807 | 10642.44 [Assassin-Decapitate-23835] Assassin 3511831 | 1092.67 Swashbuckler 3328193 | 1035.53 Assassin 3269537 | 1017.28 Conjurer 3100833 | 964.79 Ranger 2441236 | 759.56 Wizard 1995903 | 621.00 Bruiser 1899887 | 591.13 Bruiser 1778742 | 553.44 Brigand 1684973 | 524.26
sorry guys, but i played with a ranger (one of the best in game imho), with my old raid toon Warlock (my current main is a necro on pvp, but i havent raided yet). This ranger was consistently #1 on almost every raid, occasionally #2 behind a conjuror. We had another ranger, and he was usually 6 or 7. What does that tell me? One, that the person playing the class has alot to do with it. No one like to hear this, because if they're [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing and moaning they have to defend this or it mean that perhaps they're not maximizing their class...oh no, can't admit we don't know everything.... Anyway, we either had the worlds best ranger, or 23 nubs...and seeing as how we beat pretty much every T7 zone (I say pretty much because I left to PvP before we did deathtoll.). I do know that the #1 ranger spent a ton of money on top end arrows and poison, so if you want to make the argument it was unfair he had to spend so much money to be #1, I'll buy that argument. What I've never seen is a wizard parsing that high. I can't believe there are rangers parsing below a wizzy. I, personally, think they are the most broken T1 dps class out there. Course, this is a ranger forum, and you're all likely to be slanted in the same direction. Just like the warlock forums are, just like the summoner forums are, just like the assasin forums are...every one thinks they're class is underpowered from where it should be...sorry for intruding, wqas reading dev tracker posts, and came across this one.
For my raids, it's always, always: Wizard (Illu) > Conjuror (Allestair) After that, it can be Necro, Brigand, Swashy etc. Then the Rangers and Brawlers follow typically. I certainly do concede that my Wizard and Conj are DPS-****** and do everything they can to maximize their DPS =P At the end of the day tho, seems to me most Rangers are prideful (in the sense they wouldn't be slacking) and the ones posting on here are from high end raid guilds (so gear should be equalized).
This is our parse from Deathtoll last Monday (I removed the healers) I'm the assassin. (52:28) 40484361 | 12,860.34 Assassin 4020335 | 1,277.11 Wizard 3607621 | 1,146.00 Brig1 3347176 | 1,063.27 Necro 3073875 | 976.45 Conjuror 3068996 | 974.90 Brig2 2782510 | 883.90 Zerker 2761651 | 877.27 Guardian 2234510 | 709.82 Illusionist 2199377 | 698.66 Warlock 2150585 | 683.16 Troub 2149543 | 682.83 lol it also looks like we skip a lot of those blobs and stuff that you guys don't :smileytongue:
If Lockeye is using just the raw numbers of DPS on the whole, not divided by level or playstyle, then that data is flawed. You can't compare, say, my DPS at 54 as a soloer to a 70 raiding ranger. You can't even compare my DPS to a level 54 raiding ranger. There is a vast difference in gear focus, availability of upgrades, poison usage, etc. Using someone like my numbers to drag his down is going to give an inaccurate total. Same as comparing classes overall rather than by level and playstyle. Just like it wasn't fair for the soloist to be judged by what groups could do, ie the control changes, it isn't accurate or fair to judge the raiding ranger by what solo and group rangers can do, ignore the data they present, and call them okay.
as a wizard with equal buffs I can still out dps the ranger by a decent margin, add in some hate reduction and spell procs and i can double and nearly tripple his dps. He's been playing his ranger as long as I have been playing my wizard and knows what the hell he's doing. There is just no way he can come close to me in dps, no matter what when I am fully raid buffed. we are talking about me doing 2600 and him chugging along at 1200 at best. I find your logs and post to be utterly rediculous.
For those saying Lockeye "should follow around a raiding guild" to see how it really goes... he does. He already said what he sees when he raids; the ranger in the top 3. I know people don't want to imagine it, but a whole lot of players just haven't quite figured "it" out yet; and when people who have try to explain it, they just argue and don't want to believe they are doing anything wrong. 750 total raid dps for a ranger is pretty bad. Like Badd said, our guild doesn't have an assassin currently (with the exception of the up-and-coming one), we generally parse around 13000-15000 as a whole, and Wizard/Warlock/Necro/Ranger/Conjuror are the top dogs; with an occasional 1200ish dps howdyado from the Berserker. Maybe our ranger found some way to hack code and put some god mode buff on himself, but every day we see our ranger doing very non-underpowered dps. Maybe you should find the hundreds of rangers who are pushing global parses up and tell them to stop for a while so that Rangers will look bad.
While it is true that some Rangers parse higher, etc. the important thing to realize that damage potential appears to be higher for Summoners, Sorcerers, Rouges and Assassins.
Haha, earlier tonight I told my guild in TS that I was gonna start going auto-attack only and rack up a bunch of 500 dps parses and send them via e-mail to Lockeye.
Ok let me be of service here. Lockeye, take ANY ranger from ANY server and put them in my raid. I will set them up with a group that gives them some buffs/procs, a standard dps group, and I will even lean it on the side of an above average dps group catered to the ranger. I will let someone else do the dkp/looting for this raid. You pick any KoS instance raid zone. I will be in a group by myself. If this ranger can zone wide parse out dps me, I will quit the game, never post again, and never return to the game in any form. If I out dps the ranger, you admit rangers are messed up and deserve an upgrade. I am 100% positive that I will out dps the ranger, and by a considerable margin. Quite frankly, there is absolutely no way in hell I can lose if I try. It is going to result in me doing more dps because rangers are not good enough, period. So how about it? What is there to lose? At worst nobody has to ever hear from me again, and at best rangers get the fix they need/deserve.
Some more random parses of a week of raiding in KoS from a guild that beat all the mobs in KoS(NB excluded ofcourse) but still has to kill the Turgon and Matron, but we are getting there DT Allies: (01:12:38) 43953008 | 10,085.59 Assassin 3544095 | 813.24 Assassin 3416191 | 783.89 Assassin 3288892 | 754.68 Berserker 3004055 | 689.32 Wizard 2892028 | 663.61 Necromancer 2779579 | 637.81 Swashbuckler 2742921 | 629.40 Ranger 2472343 | 567.31 Bruiser 2453357 | 562.95 Conjuror 2427974 | 557.13 Conjuror 2331360 | 534.96 Berserker 2025368 | 464.75 Brigand 1560459 | 358.07 Dirge 1472917 | 337.98 Illusionist 1375635 | 315.66 Dirge 1046721 | 240.18 Labs Allies: (01:04:04) 35543545 | 9,246.50 Assassin 3260388 | 848.18 Assassin 3050184 | 793.49 Wizard 2771799 | 721.07 Wizard 2708319 | 704.56 Ranger 2632392 | 684.81 Brigand 2318648 | 603.19 Bruiser 2250839 | 585.55 Berserker 1763408 | 458.74 Dirge 1745461 | 454.07 Guardian 1723632 | 448.40 Monk 1655885 | 430.77 Illusionist 1380945 | 359.25 Brigand 1254966 | 326.47 lyceum Allies: (55:01) 47374673 | 14,351.61 Wizard 3705224 | 1,122.46 Wizard 3115074 | 943.68 Assassin 3061236 | 927.37 Berserker 3040771 | 921.17 Conjuror 2895266 | 877.09 Conjuror 2809466 | 851.10 Warlock 2750213 | 833.15 Ranger 2596843 | 786.68 Ranger 2578159 | 781.02 Bruiser 2402260 | 727.74 Brigand 2368721 | 717.58 Monk 1933795 | 585.82 Berserker 1784229 | 540.51 Dirge 1670014 | 505.91 Guardian 1562709 | 473.40 Brigand 1558024 | 471.99 Troubadour 985334 | 298.50 Halls of seeing Allies: (01:19:05) 56580085 | 11,924.15 Wizard 5562340 | 1,172.25 Assassin 4796228 | 1,010.80 Wizard 4449178 | 937.66 Warlock 3675468 | 774.60 Conjuror 3515180 | 740.82 Conjuror 3414730 | 719.65 Swashbuckler 3367535 | 709.70 Brigand 2950607 | 621.84 Brigand 2793976 | 588.83 Illusionist 2622935 | 552.78 Guardian 2436805 | 513.55 Berserker 2331908 | 491.45 Bruiser 2270850 | 478.58 Berserker 2218832 | 467.61 Dirge 2107600 | 444.17 Troubadour 1483219 | 312.59 In our guild Wizards and Assassins must fear the nerfbat the most it seems :smileytongue:
I'll volunteer to be your lab rat Ishbu. My ranger is decently equipped, T7 fabled bow, I use T7 rare poisons, crafted arrows by my alt, almost all CA's Masters with a few Ad3's. http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=215174106 managing 1k dps for 1hr isn't out of my reach but its definitely not easy to do.. and that's still 400dps behind your assassins from the same raid zone, approximately same time frame.. So how about it Lockeye, you do a copy & paste of my toon on their server, I'll go raiding with them a few nights and we'll give you some raw, hard data from a High End Raiding Point of View..:smileyhappy: Yes, I'm being completely serious. No sarcasm expressed or implied.
You just have to appreciate the raw nerve and confidence expressed by this challenge lol. Seems pretty reasonable to me
This has GOT to be a joke. Are necro and conj pets not factored into the DPS parses? Claiming necro and conj don't outrank ranger DPS averages EVER is just completely absurd and contrary to the experiances of anyone who raids and runs a parser. What's scary about this is just how out of touch Devs seem to be with actual experiances of players in the game. I'll be the first to say that rangers were horribly overpowered throughout DoF, but this didn't seem to be noticed until KoS, and even then Devs didn't understand the mechanics behind why this was the case. See the notorious comment by Blackgard about how "if" 60% of ranger DPS came from procs than that would be something they'd have to look at. Just asking any raiding ranger who ran a parse where thier DPS came from would have told them that. Now there is agreement from players of all classes at the high end raid game that rangers are underpowered at end game to the point that raid guilds don't look to recruit rangers and it is met with claims that conjurers and necros never out DPS rangers. From my personal experiances I'm fighting to stay ahead of Swashies and Brigands, both of whom bring massive debuffs to raids, and parsing far behind Conjs and Necros who know how to play thier class. And yes, I know what I am doing when playing my class. /shrug, while I might have your attention, what ever happened to this: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=25747#M25747 -Most classes don't have ranged autoattack unless they are pulling. Rangers are an exception because of how often they use ranged combat arts will force them to use their ranged autoattack much more often. Damage rating across all ranged weapons is increased by 33% to be in line with the damage rating offered by 2-handed weapons. Previously their average damage rating was below that of a 1-handed weapon. Because this never happened, the damage ratings of 2H that drop like candy from heroic instances is better than the top end bows from the very end game raid mobs. Even not at end game, see the rewards on Grizzfazzles bow vs the 2H. 80.8 DR vs 91.7 or so, too bummed out to even look up the exact DR on the 2H.
The question then becomes what parser does the devs use. I seriously doubt they are using ACT. In fact i would say it would be thier own internal data parser. In which case which is more accurate. In my opinion ACT is fundementally inaccurate but many people swear its the holy grail. The problems with rangers is not they can't do T1 dps they can. It simply requires rangers to have one of 2 T8 ammo summoning bows w ~99 dam rating. and if they are lucky the 106+Dr bow from venekor. What rangers truly need are more bows w 100-110 dam ratings that summon T8 ammo. As bows are no where in proportion to the same quality as 2 handers. Rangers could also benefit from a few items made with specific ranged/combat procs.
