but that is where the problem is... in the raiding end.. all of the rangers that have brought this to the communities have stressed that this is on an end-game raiding situation... and not the majority of casual players.
I am afraid yet again sony is wrong. My main is a Guardian and on every raid I have ever attended rangers are not showing up number 1. It is normally Conjurors/necros on top then warlock/wiz monk/bruiser Rangers It all varies though at times a berserker may peak up to the top 4 and at other times. Nonetheless I played a ranger in eq1 and I just thought I would throw in my two sense and help prove this Dev wrong.
Sony hasnt said that rangers show up #1 on raid parses... or that they will show up in the top 4 in a raid. They said over all on average across ALL the data Rangers are showing up where they expect them too. Thats it, thats all, nothing about raiding or where they show up on the parse of a raid. They are on average in the 2.2 spot across all data. There might well be a problem with raiding rangers, some say yes, some say no.. but they wont ballance an entire class based on raiding, raiders are a small % of the total ranger population.
i personally dont see it as a huge gap, yet.. but I have no doubt some people do see this gap and in some situations in some raids it is aparent. But ballancing an entire class based on how 5% of the players who play the class see it isnt how they work. If they give rangers a 20% damage boost then we are back to pre LU21 and it'll be unballanced all over again. i dont know what the solution is, but I cant help but think its related to the drastic heavy handed ill thought out fix to procs that they used. simply making it so rangers offensive stance didnt proc poisons, and having a heirachy for the procs to check in and stop when one hits would have cut ranger DPs by just enough i think to ballance it out. i'm off to bed.. i am sorry that this was the answer.
After pissing and moaning about this all night (mainly to my dog and boy is he confused) I am just gonna have to accept the decsion and decide what alt to level up. I am thinking Brigand. Never deleted or betrayed, just resting quietly in a nice room somewhere.
Before you start pulling quotes from August of '05 from a post titled what would you like to see in desert of flames, check with your parents and make sure you are allowed to post. You spent so much time to dig back a year ago and try to "ruin my credibilty". That is almost laughable. Now, before I try to pick through this post and post all the whines perhaps you should stand back and decide if you want to go down this path. This thread needs to be turned into a thread with valid proof of these claims or be locked. It can not be a "he said, she said" kind of thing. As far as seeing all the posts here and basing it as the whole ranger database remember, most users do not post here.
And thats what I have been saying, Sony has ALOT more Data than any I have seen posted on the forums here.. across ALL kinds of situations. When the data did show a discrepancy, lockeye came in and told Rangers that and increased some of their melee CA's. The same data now shows, across the board on average that rangers are in the top average on DPS. Then why di you retire your Ranger until the betrayal quest came out, then bring him out of retirement and betray to an Assassin if we are fine.
I'm gonna say this one more time... Lockeye's average is not accurate in showing us where Rangers stand in raids... because lets face it.. a vast majority do not raid regularly. I'd like to see a compilation of the Rangers who raid 4 or more days a week... call that Raw Data and tell me we don't have a problem... Message Edited by Peston on 07-28-2006 11:16 PM
I dont know what your rangers are doing , I'm in a guild that raids , we are mostly mastered up so spell results are comparable.. In raids 90-99% of the time it's the rangers in the guild that are top of the DPS parse..
well heres a sample parse of my death toll raid as a 70 ranger and is shows me as number 10 on the dps list head of me is the following 1. wizard 2. brigand, 3. swahsy, 4. assian 5. brusier 6.guard(main tank), 7 and 8 azre monks 9 is a conjurer then Me 70 ranger at number 10. im sry but LOCKEYE somthing is def wrong and this pic of my parser doesnt lie. and im decent equiped and all adept 3/ mastered with 34 aa's. Loomingelephant
Okay, here is a full zone parse for HoS from a couple weeks ago that Calaglin already had posted. There's no rangers there, but the top 6 classes are: Assassin (me), Assassin, Wizard, Necro, Conjuror, Illusionist. Now, at least maybe someone can come here with a comparable HoS parse with a ranger on it, and you can at least have some base assumptions for high end raiding. Anyway, I'm going to bed, so good luck with this! I'm sure there will be 15 pages when I wake up lol
Because captain obvious the changes to procs killed the fun factor for me. In my case it was a particular animation that occured when we proc'd alot that led me to have the last name "Heavy'Artillery". I betrayed because the new guild I joined needed an assassin and i was tired of tanking on my guard. It had EVERYTHING to do with the fact that an assassin transfers hate, and little to do with the DPS. Both are pretty similar in my book depending on the situation and gear. We got a new MT, i didnt have to MT and we needed an assassin, thats it in a nutshell. We already had 4 rangers including me. One of the others chose to level his necro alt because we needed that too.
Forgot about that functionality on ACT, hadn't used it in a while. Here is the top of the list from tonight in Lab: Allies: (01:05:32) 37924966 | 9,645.21 [Morlander-Fusion-24648] Necro 4288554 | 1,090.68 Ranger (me) 3866652 | 983.38 Brigand 3750378 | 953.81 Monk 3477652 | 884.45 Berserker 3161934 | 804.15 Wizard 2844227 | 723.35 Conjuror 2532227 | 644.00 Wizard 2143219 | 545.07 Monk 2048090 | 520.88 Dirge 1931746 | 491.29 No assassins in this one, kind of an off night as far as raid setup, but you get the idea Last Monday in Deathtoll: Allies: (01:11:26) 50166630 | 11,704.77 [Darkkeyes-Decapitate-22404] Assassin 4588303 | 1,070.53 Assassin 4126188 | 962.71 Ranger (me) 4054075 | 945.89 Brigand 3968786 | 925.99 Necro 3821868 | 891.71 Monk 3745181 | 873.82 Swash 3627037 | 846.25 Bruiser 3458825 | 807.01 Berserker 3276035 | 764.36 Conjuror 2687922 | 627.14 Here is a good example of a raid with Malignx slacking off :smileytongue: BTW, didn't have any sorcerers in there. And one from Lyceum: Allies: (57:59) 49164648 | 14,131.83 [Morlander-Fusion-27750] Necro 5154936 | 1,481.73 Assassin 4073879 | 1,170.99 Ranger (me) 3966773 | 1,140.21 Warlock 3703935 | 1,064.66 Wizard 3549338 | 1,020.22 Brigand 3530682 | 1,014.86 Bruiser 3074482 | 883.73 Conjuror 3060456 | 879.69 Monk 2934558 | 843.51 Warlock 2716601 | 780.86 This is probably representative of my general impression; necro pwning us, assassin followed by me with sorcerers and rogues right behind. Edited to remove names Message Edited by Ranvarenaya on 07-29-2006 02:20 AM
I think the real problem is rangers don't scale as over all raid dps increases. I for a long time shared the top of the parse, until we cracked down on slackers and saw a HUGE jump in our raid dps. That over all bump killed me. I'm now lucky if I'm landing 4th on the parse. I'm glad our guild is kicking more butt, but I'm finally seeing what I have always suspected. Our dps does not scale to the high end. I'm fully fabled, (minus 1 master) fully mastered, and I have a bazkul. I cap str and I'm gettling close to 400int now, in a group w/ 100% haste and 50% dps. It doesn't matter, when all the other classes are playing hard, my dps looks like crapp. When they used to slack, my dps look significantly higher. This tells me we are having trouble scaling. My play style hasn't changed one bit, my rotations are the same, but when the raid isn't sandbagging it, my dps is actually lower. The closer our raids gets to 20k dps the further I slide on the parse. This is what I suspect the high end raid guild are referring to. This is why disso has no ranger, and why others aren't accepting ranger apps. Heck even we aren't taking rangers. Lockeye if you feel rangers are in the right spot, send me a PM i'll get you my info and you can log on one raid night and prove me wrong. I got 5p says you'll be singing a new tune. on a side note.... Gaige, You came from a guild that had prolly the top end ranger on the server. He and I have had many conversations about dps and where we land on the parses. Until recently I haven't disagreed much with where we were landing on the parse. You've seen his dps, would you argue that Lockeye is wrong?
I dont have a HoS parse.. but i have alot of Lyceum, DT and Labs that look the same (even similar numbers) but our top are between 2 Conj, 2 Wizards, 2 Assassins and 2 Rangers. all between 1100-1400 DPS. Generally our one Ranger is on top (Skyia) but alot of times its a toss up.. if i go all out i can sometimes get on top, same goes for any of us. i am out too... this thread should be a hoot tomorrow.
and thats alot like our parses... i dont see the uber 2000 DPS stuff LoreLady speaks of .. and i dont see the Rangers at 1200 DPS while the other DPS classes are 1800+ I generally see similar to what you post.. 2 [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], 2 RNG, 2 Conj, 2 Wiz all vying for top honors ..
In fact, we don't know what data SoE has, and you are merely speculating without any reasonable foundation of evidence. For all we know, SoE's data is just a dirty average of individual ranger dps by all rangers on a server, measured against the dps of all other classes on that server. But since we are speculating, let me give you my SWAG: In my experience, people who play rangers are generally more parse oriented, and technical gamers, than players of many other classes. I've found that in general, most pickup group rangers are much better than the average player of another dps class. Usually rangers are aware of their damage, and even poorly equipped ones seem to work hard to maximize dps. I've never seen a ranger in a pickup group only use auto attack. To the contrary, I've seen more than one conjuror in pickup groups using a tank pet when we had a tank in the group. I've seen every other scout class just doing autoattack and not casting cas and spells. And I've seen a lot of fighters using one handers and sheilds when someone else is tanking. These are just some basic examples of situations where the vast majority of EQ2 players suck. My theory is that most rangers suck less than most other players, on average. So my bottom line belief is that if a ranger is parsing highest in a group or at a raid, the rest of that group or raid sucks. If my theory is correct, that means rangers will produce higher dps than every other class named by Lockeye. But it is far from objective to claim that either my theory or his claim is scientifically accurate or even meaningful. What would be far more meaningful is data taken from the top guilds world wide. Most players in top guilds do not suck, and try their hardest to maximize dps because that is what their very pride and identity is based on. So this data would be reliable and meaningful, unlike a simple average of the dps of everyone on a server based on class, and without consideration given to levels, effort, and skill.
So what your saying is that the rangers didn't fill the DPS/Utility bill so you had to level up another character or betray? Gee that sounds like what we are saying.
So.... YOUR raw data is better than everyone else's raw data? MY raw spell data shows that Assassin CAs do more damage than Ranger CAs over time. Message Edited by Sokolov on 07-28-2006 11:53 PM
