Cool post, thx for the screenies. Ok first of all, warlocks are still great !!! But, what drives me when I am grinding to level up, is that NEW spell you get at the next level. I grinded lvl 49 to 50 in two days, just to get devastation It makes me happy to get a nice spells when I ding 50. The problem with these spells is, at level 50 you already have it all. At level 50 we do arleady alot of AE damage. We get one more AE spell that is not realy worth the grind. We get one new DD at level 51. So basicly we as warlocks only have to ding 51 and we got all our new uber spells. And from lvl 51 to 60 it's more like replacements and not even huge upgrades. I don't say the spells are bad. I say they are not worth putting much effort in getting them, when you already have uber spells at lvl 51. Maybe having a nice spell around lvl 58+ will make people happy. Like a better form of Devastation or so, since SOE decided we are AE/AoE anyway. Put it on the same timer, I don't care. It's just after level 51 the spells are so not worth any effort to get there. Now ok there is still the lvl 60 raid content, but in the meanwhile all you have is the ding and the new spells Vexia lvl 50 warlock@guk Sybryn lvl 50 zerker@guk
I agree, as the spell list stands, and since spells no longer scale with level there's no real incentive to go beyond 51. However the thing to remember here is that there is definitely a missing spell at 60, there has to be. Remember 41-50 as a Warlock in the current game you got quite frankly nothing of any real use until Devastation, if if there's something nice at 60 it'll at least be a target for people to aim for, if not...well...I'm sure I can find something better to do with my time.
In all fairness that's not true at all. You get buff upgrades, cower, deter, netheros, Nil absolution, Aura of Emptiness, Vulian interference, the debuff curse, and all of your end game melee procs. 41-50 was a good run for us with a huge prize at the end.
At the moment Deter,Cower and Netheros are all useless and the others are adequate rather than useful. Now after the revamp the 41-49 line is vastly improved, and even if there was nothing at all in the 41-49 range, currently having Bony Grasp at the beginning and Devastation at the end is enough. So my point is still the same - give us something nice at 60 while we may not be happy, we'll at least have something to work towards. Oh, and yes, the Wizard 51-60 lineup may not be fantastic but it's better than ours. It's that big new nuke Wizards get at 50 that's causing the real disparity. Message Edited by Magiocracy on 08-23-2005 03:38 PM Message Edited by Magiocracy on 08-23-2005 03:39 PM
To be correct, Cower, Deter, Netheros, Vulian interference and I can add Soul Flay are all crappy. That said, there were lots of great non-nuke spells in 40-50.
That's a matter of opinion, from my perspective our spells from 41 to 49 suck. I never use cower, deter (frozen manacles is better), netheros, or vulian interference (instant aggro). I only use aura of darkness on mobs that the level 40 training spell TNN doesn't work on due to level. I'm never in the main tank group so most of the melee procs are useless and I only use nil absolution when fighting more than 3 mobs. Devastation is the only nuke post level 37 that I regularly use and it's AE. Bony grasp is the only got to have 41 to 49 spell. Sure I use the buffs and debuffs that we get in the 40s but they weren't the motivating factor to push to the next level.
I miss something I think. I heard wizzi got a fire nuke, so anyone can tell me where we get our desease nuke and why is our lvl 51 nuke lower than wizzi lvl 50 nuke? Since I started the warlock I got a lot of tells like "Hello, Warlock are like necros in EQ1?" My answer was "No, we are like wizzis but wizzis are fire and cold based and we are poision and desease based, with a little difference here and there like escape for wizzis". I think this near to the truth till lvl 49. I was a little surprised as I saw devastation at lvl 50 is not a nuke its an AE and wizzi got a nuke instead of it. I was thinking we will get a nuke like that above 50, but seems I was completly wrong. (I prefer single nuke over AE because I like this big numbers over the mobs head.) The good side on this will be that we will get less warlocks and I prefer to play a not so common class. Hmm maybe not enough reason to really enjoy the nerv. A bit out of topic: I play my warlock a lot in duo with my wife. She plays an illusionist. If you really want see a reason to quit look at illusionists spell changes and spells above 50. It is interessting to see that a brocken class can be nerved more. I have ordered the expansion and I will see if it is fun to play with the new combat system as long as the toad spell is working fine there is a little hope. Sometimes I would like to cast the toad spell on one of the devs. To bad its not working in RL. Eloah 50Warlock/50Jeweller
Null Distortion, our level 51 nuke is an upgrade to the distortion line. Wizards also get a level 51 nuke which is an upgrade to their Ball of Fire/Flames line. Both of those are predictable upgrades of previous spells, but the new level 50 Wizard Surging Tempest is a brand new, non-linked 3k+ single target nuke. Obviously the devs thought that getting Ice Comet at 50 wasn't enough and that Wizards needed some more massive single target dps. /boggle
Deter is a great secondary stun if you want to be chain stunning a mob Nihilism lowers poison mit on target. Cower is an awesome secondary or tertiary root. I have had battles where I am small grouping and cower/FM adds and maintain them. Cower is not useless you are just inadequate at maintaining crowd control. Torment of shadows has the longest pull of any spell in the game, in addition to doing about 125-150dmg every few seconds. While I don't normally cast this, sometimes it goes up while my other spells are on refresh. Wicked gift only gives about 400 power to the whole group...USELESS OBVIOUSLY. Aspect of Darkness- JUNK who needs power, regen, and poison resists? Spirit Shroud- Haha I never have to invis anywhere, I know you guys dont either. Netheros- 100pts of DOT in 2 second cast is clearly underpowered. Nil Absolution- 400+ DD to 5 targets + another 300-400 in dot as well as a dispel effect and -str on all targets...another useless spell. Aura of Emptiness- 9 second stuns are for *******. Vulian Gift- only goes off about once every other hit for 20 power a tick from the mob to the recipient...blah we have breeze in raids anyway. Chaotic Maelstrom- 1000poison resist debuff- useless. Grisly Contract- ONLY 403 power back to target every 20 seconds. If anyone can show me a video of you guys using none of these spells that would be great because I know that I use most of them every single time I log on. Seems to me our 41-50 lineup was awesome...yep yep I remember now, it is.
Vulian Interference also- lower casting by 4 and interrupt target. Used in every one of our raids and NO we don't pull aggro.
hah, you must be doing some [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]tactular dps then a majority of the time, because i for one know how much aggro that spell draws, and yes i do use it on SOME raids but far from all. Oh and for your information, that spell makes warlocks the best MT possible for the CT depception drakota, if you know what to do. Always fun to play MT as a mage.
I just checked out the wizard spells and it looks like that they're going to be happy with the expansion. Unfortunately (from my perspective), we got totally screwed. We now have so many junk spells it's impossible to tell what kind of damage we'll be able to inflict. I don't see one spell from 51 to 60 that I could give a rat's [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about having. I have absolutely no problem with the spells the wizards are getting but it's obvious that post level 50, they will be the superior sorcerer class. We now have less utility, less firepower and less solo ability. The only area we may be superior is AOE but that's just not enough to keep me playing. I'd be embarassed to show up to a raid with our crappy lineup of spells, polluting the environment with my pathetic pack of netheros pets. I expected Warlocks to loose their damage dealing superiority relative to the other damage dealing classes (which seemed completely reasonable to me). I didn't expect to have the soul of the class ripped out and transformed into a conjuror wanabee class. This maybe what SOE considers flavor but I don't like the taste.
Crono, you obviously dont know how the spells are changing due to your post. Sure the spells NOW are fine at 40-50, but what does that have to do with 51-60 anyway?. Look what happens to them when combat changes go through. Just a few examples of your errors: Wicked Gift will no longer be a power add. Aurua of Emptiness will no longer be a stun spell at all, and BTW, it is NOT 9 seconds. That is the training spell. Grisly Contract gets a HUGE Nerf etc, etc, etc.
Cronos, I'm glad you like the spells. I've told you what I think about them. It's really silly to insult people who don't play the game exactly like you, 'Cower is not useless you are just inadequate at maintaining crowd control'. I just don't need a tertiary root - I'm not sure who that makes inadequate. ' 9 second stuns are for *******' - what's the point? Why use a 9 second stun when it's on the same timer as your 10.7 second stun? You pull with a DOT? That's fine, personally I don't like DOTS because then I can't root the mob, I don't really care how long the casting range is. What I don't see in this lineup is any useable single traget DD spell which is why I'm still using mostly pre-level 40 spells for that purpose. Message Edited by MilkToast on 08-23-2005 10:05 AM
51-60 Wizard spells have been posted guys. wizards: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=14256
I'm guessing you mean aspect of darkness (not life changing or hardly even noticeable), cower (broke), netheros (broke), Nil Abs (ok there's 1 but heavily situational), Vulian Interference (try casting this during a raid), the debuf curse (you mean Curse of emptiness?... well if so... finally a 2nd one I put on my active hotbar), end game melee procs (I use these constanty while soloing... /sarcasm off).
Ok i thought our spells sucked, then i looked at the wizard spells. Let me just say, NOT only do they do EVERYTHING that we can do, But they do it BETTER and can do more differnt things, AND they have [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing sweet DPS. I cant even FATHOM how they think these classes are going to be equal, i mean can anyone see, because i sure [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing cant. I was upset when i saw our spells, and when i saw the wizard spells i became furious. There is now ZERO reason to play a warlock post revamb looking at the wizard spells. Common at least theres a reason to play a wizard as it currently is, even if your gonna make us nerf at least give our class something special.
Ok a tad bit of overreaction here. Wizards can not do everything you can do. Let't take a look: Shadowed Pilaging - An AE power drain that also returns power to your party. Wizards have no power drains, and nothing that returns health OR power to the party Vulian Intrustion - This is similar to the wizard stifle spell, except the Warlock version prevents the mob from attacking, whereas the wizard version just prevents specials Seal of Ebon Thought - This spells raises all spellcasting skills by a huge amount. Wizards have nothing even remotely like this Curse of Nothingness - This spell hugely debuffs the mobs Str and Int, wizards have nothing like this Baneful Nihilism - This spell puts a 25% proc on the mob to take tons of additional damage. It's like applying a 25% poison to everyone's weapon. Again, no wiz spell like this. Wizards get a single target concentration spell (read single person from your group) that has a 25% chance to do about 1/4th of the damage this does, and this is from the entire group, not a single person. Netheros Grasp - This spell procs a chance to reduce the targets physical mitigation by a HUGE amount, wizards have nothing like this I'm not going to go through and compare every wiz spell to every warlock spell, that would take a huge amount of time I just don't have. I'm also not saying that you didn't get the short end of the stick on some things, but to say that you're just inferior wizard clones is ignorant and wrong.
