Ok i know that netheros is a DoT pet with a limited lifespan and things you can do with it, but i do know that it has its own life pool while it exsists and it generates its own hate. Now information on how much hate it holds, like can i use a debuff on the mob while netheros is on it without it losing aggro, or how much dmg can netheros take before it dies. Or mabey do i have some form of control over the pet , for example if i dont have actaul commands i can give it, will it follow me within a certian distance or just stand where it is and fight till the timer on it is over. Info on any details like this would give required info on how effectivly i could use this spell. Thx for all your posts on this
yes, netheros is a DoT which can be broken with AE specials from the mob. i dont want pets, i tried out necro in the beta and thats wqhy i take warlock, i am my own DD, not my pets!!
Consider this. Example: New lvl 50 dmg spells for warlock and wiz. These are at app 1 and I don't know how they will scale with upgrades but consider this (NO REAL NUMBERS HERE please don't flame me): Spells seem to get about a 10%-ish gain per upgrade App1 to App2 (better for App to adept) App1Max Dmg Surging Tempet: 3218 dmg + 76 +378 = 3672 per 64 secs (Cast + recast) for 392 mana ---- 57 damage per sec Dark Infestation: (156 dmg times 5 ticks = 780 dmg per 26 secs) * 2 = 1560 dmg per 52 secs for 294 mana ---- 30 damage per sec App3 Max Dmg (Estimation only) Surging Tempest: (3218 dmg + 76 +378) * 20% = 4406 per 64 secs (Cast + recast) for 392 mana ---- 69 damage per sec Dark Infestation: ((156 dmg + 20%) times 5 ticks = 936 dmg per 26 secs) * 2 = 1872 dmg per 52 secs for 294 mana ---- 36 damage per sec I hope those Dark Broodlings do some good dps consistently because straight damage is roughly 1/2 the wizzy's nuke and the gap will increase as the spells upgrade. Feel free to correct me.
Considering not one of the spells posted is an AOE upgrade (aside from abysmal fury upgrade) I think you should all chill until they finish our spell lists k?..
Also should point out that the majority of classes get 3 new level 50 spells. Only ones that don't are Berserkers, Sk's, Monks, Coercers, Conjurors, Necros, and Warlocks. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that possibly we all get 3 new ones they just haven't finished them yet maybe?..
We get 3. The one not listed is a bizarre targetted hostile teleport/stun. See the pics for more details.
Relying on pet analogues is the worst thing that can happen to this class. Beats me why SoE is doing something like this. WE ARE NOT A PET CLASS IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM AND DONT WANT TO BE IN THE FUTURE Need also to write this with a spray can on a Game Designers car window.
Bull[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], it's not like SOE started the combat revamp last week. This has been in the works for a long time and is the reason SOE has been giving for not fixing spells for the last several months. I would not expect major changes before the expansion ships unless they fear a large scale revolt.
Well politely say lvl 50-60 spell line up is SUCKs for warlock big time let me explain why .... Major difference between wizards and warlock lay in way of doing damage wizards - slow cast slow recast mana hungry big booms warlocks fast caster fast recast mana efficient smalled booms - net result SAME DPS over time but better burst DPS of wizards ... which is ok and I'd buy it We been doing just fine in DPS vs. single target department compare to wizards save fact that wizards been screwed toward resistance part and THAT should be fixed. Wizards hade IceCommet, Immorlation, Ball of Flame and Ball of Fire + what ever debuffing spells they had; warlock were using Nil Distortion, Devastation, BSS and Nox Bolt same number of spells with more or less same DPS over time. After rewamp we lose nearly everything, while wizards GAIN extra spell that equal to IC on different timer. And as everyone pointed out - DD then they go from app1 to m1 gain ~250% original damage ... AoE ... are not. So In reality to keep balance SOE need to balance out 2 things DPS vs. single target (burst and over time) and DPS vs. AE encounter (burst and over time). As it stands now DPS of warlock vs. single target after rewamp at lvl 60 will approximatly 20-30% compare to DPS wizard Now AE damage - yes we got massive boost of AE spell ... but we never asked for it.... [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. YES wizards had problem with AE attacks NOT warlocks we been JUST FINE here was NO NEED TO BOOST OUR AE for crist sake, ON COUNTARY AE damage of wizards was need to be equally increased to MATCH AE DPS of warlock
Very late, but yes, you can buff a level 2-6 character to any level and class on beta, and receive some crappy gear appropriate to their level as well.
Whats wrong with wizards doing double the dps on single targets. You guys quadrouple wizards dps on aoe in beta. Hell Warlocks can get 300 dps on beta on a single target only using their AOE's. On true AOE encounters warlocks can push 2,200 dps. Warlocks on beta max at at about 500 dps single target and 2,200 dps on AOE. Wizards on beta max out at about 750 single target dps and 780 AOE dps. I think you guys are over-reacting as I see nothing wrong with these numbers. Just wait for the expansion and i think you will be presently suprised at the kind of numbers you can put out. Just remember that while wizards will out dps you by 33% on single target. You will out dps them by about 300% on AOE. So its not all gona be bad : )
I'm not going to jump on this "woe is me" bandwagon here. These spells are only app1, so perhaps the upgrades as you increase are significant. However..... Lets assume for a sec those numbers are correct. Problems: 1.) AE damage is extremely risky. Its doubtful any tank can maintain aggro against 750dps AE, let alone 2.2k. 2.) The new 50 spells for the "top ranked DD classes" should include a DD spell. A weak DoT < a 3k+ single target nuke. Before that addition, I was ok with the numbers. Now, much much worse. Why not give us a disease AE (comprable to the fire based nuke). Or even have it add up to somewhere near 3k since its currently single target.
I hope you are right Poochy. I could accept that wizards do more damage on single target encounters and we do more damage on groups. Looking at the new spell list, I hate the new spells. I can never imagine a group calling for Null Caress over evac. That Netherous Grasp (decrease mitigation by 400 versus physical damage) is awesome for a DIRGE. The pet line spells are a nice upgrade to Swarm of Rats. /rant off They must still have some bugs to work out because looking at the test server spell list and the new spells there are some issues Nil Distortions does more damage that Null Distortion for 100 less power. Soul blister does less damage than Soul Flay. I am crossing my fingers that we are all over reacting. Mazeekeo-50 Warlock Lavastorm www.statureofthegods.net
You are totally right there DresdenMalicaster. That's the big thing wrong about AE's. It's very hard for a tank to keep the aggro on all the mobs in a group if you are casting such powerful AE's. Tanks just don't have that great of a taunt. At least, not right now they don't. I've tried it firsthand using Master Devastation and another one of our AE's (and you now how sucky those are). The tank just couldn't hold all the mobs on him. Unless they give the tanks MUCH greater taunt then there are going to be a lot of dead warlocks when the expansion comes around or a lot of warlocks twiddling there thumbs so they don't gain aggro. Also, now guys really think about this, where did it say we were the AE's of the sorcerer subclass? Just because we we have one strong AE that we gain at level 50 we are tagged the AoE class?? [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]?! Most of the time I'm casting Nil Distortion, BSS, and Noxious bolt. Now aren't those all DD's?? We are sorcerers! We are direct damage dealers! But apparently in the expansion we suddenly become a dot and AoE class! That's what really ticks me off. If you look at those new spells it seems we have gained a lot of dots, AoE's, and pets that are actually dots. I am going to hold out for DoF and see what actually goes live but if things don't look good....well....D&D Online isn't too far away.... Message Edited by Onlinedecker on 08-22-2005 06:50 PM
I agree with you totally Onlinedecker. If a tank cannot hold agro very well, even with multiple aoe taunt at Master I, with our aoes its going to be impossible to keep agro. I know when i first picked to be a warlock i liked being able to look forward to our nice single target DD's ( Dark Distortion, Nil Distortion, Noxious Bolt, ect) and now, we're no longer going to be able to single target DD the way we use to? Yes, i did like having a few aoes, but they weren't our primary thing....single target dd's were. I know when i'm grouped, even in a raid for that matter, my primary spells that i use are : Nil distortion, BSS, Henevia's, and Devastation. I hardly use aoes compared to how much i use single targets. I know for sure when i chose to be a warlock i did not want to be primarly using Dot's and AoE's.....and now, wizards get TWO super nice nukes, Ice comet and that other Tempest spell. Not only that, but their on different timers!! Plus with their upgrade to icey wind, which will cancel out our dps on Devastation, they get those 2 single target, plus other nice things...we get dmg upgrade to our aoes, as it should be,but i was hopeing for some nice Single target DD's with some nice poisen dmg. I mean...they should decrease the resists on IC i think. cuz i know it does get resisted quite a few times, but with other spell their getting, i mean, they got to be kidding. I've talked to some warlocks on my server about their opinion of this, and a few like these changes, however i disagree totally. I think i will stick to my class, and pray that these changes arn't going to go live, or if they do, SoE is disclosing some lvl 60 warlock spell that will be a nice single target DD or something along those lines, but as of what i'm seeing right now....i'm very dissapointed. Feel free to disagree with my opinions, but to me i always thought that a warlocks main purpose was single target DD, at least, when i first started and made mine thats what it was about and the main difference between warlock and wizards was poisen and disease VS Heat and Cold. But also, wizards are slightly lacking in dps before this revamp, but they have nice utility spells like the best power booster in game next to a chanter...( well the main purpose for a chanter is just that....but you get my point) I think warlocks and wizards should be reasonably balanced with Single target DD's and AoE's...i mean you just can't have one class be one, and the other be another, it just doesnt work that way i think. I think i've rambled enough though, so i'll stop lol :smileywink: Sry for the such the long post =/ Message Edited by Spikd on 08-22-2005 11:54 PM
I find it continually bizarre that people think that AoE dps is a replacement for single target dps - it's simply not true. 1. The overwhelming majority of content in the game is single target (single solo mobs and single heroic mobs). That means that single target damage is, equally, overwhelmingly more important that AoE damage. Now you can use AoE spells on single creatures but it's massively inefficient (and AoE spell designed to hit 5 mobs being used on only one is only being used at 20% efficiency dpswise). 2. Even in the situations where AoE is appropriate, it's no use if whenever you use it you die because the tank can't maintain aggro on the 5 mobs you've just blasted. Bottom line here is that single target dps is at the core of any dps class, no amount of dots/pets/aoe/utility can make up for insufficient single target dps. I really wish people would realise this rather than making up rationalisations about 'how it's not so bad'. Until we all agree that there's a problem then our chances of getting something done about it are vastly diminished.
I think a 5k poison blast is in order since wizards were handed improved devastation with 16 second recast called icy wind. I even asked them to make devastation a pbae on beta to just test it. Message Edited by Weekster on 08-23-2005 02:20 AM
I'd say, it's on Test only so far, so we'll wait and see. Despite this I see darkened clouds coming in in September. I can't understand that they did not think this through, I got the impression they put some things on paper and directly on Test without giving it thought. About our roots, anyone tried soloing without FM? It doesn't work. After Cower I casted Deter, one nuke, Cower again for safety... (Deter was still running recast timer), I throw in 2nd nuke, root breaks, mob comes for me Cower was not up again, Deter was almost castable but has a long cast time as well. (You are completely fooked if one of these gets resisted in the first place) I didn't use Aura of Emptiness coz I heard it was not gonna be a stun anymore, I didn't use Flashfreeze either coz it's an old grey spell. I was in Obelisk of Lost Souls and in EF, I tried not to open with Bony Grasp coz you aggro other mobs with it. I just wanted a specific mob. Anyway, to continue my story, I was "tanking" my mob now and in order to save my life I casted BG (only root that was up) so I could make a run for it and yes BG added more mobs... When you're "tanking" a mob you can't wait to cast BG, you can't look around and wait for other mobs to walk away so you have the space to cast the AE root. Tbh, I don't know if I should be happy for pre-ordering DoF...
Your can't really test like that. Too much is changing. - Cower will function like FM does now just with a shorter duration (that you never reach anyway). - Higher quality versions of your roots won't break so easily. - Deter will be only take two seconds to cast and have a thirty second recast. - Your ability to tank will be even worse once the update goes through. - Isn't Obelisk packed with heroic mobs anyway?
