Xorbb 1 raid

This thread.

The penalty for missing one fireball is probably a little too severe (seriously, 1 person being able to crush 53 other's chances of winning and essentially killing them all is beyond ridiculous -- it's not fun, cool, or innovative).

You still haven't beaten the expansion. It's the truth, not an attack. I don't really care if EGL puts your name in bold, for some bizarre reason I consider beating the expansion beating all the raids. Once upon a time EGL felt that way too and highlighted names in red for skipping most commonly the Zek Brothers even if a guild beat all the alledgedly harder higher tier raids because the standard was beating all the raids.

You haven't beaten a T2 raid, it's even nerfed now. Your former guild leader describes the zone as: Whoever's idea it was to put a beefed up version of NToV in the game should get free halflingjobs for life. NToV is, without question, the best raiding experience money can buy.
Of course your current leader makes front page updates about how if you aren't cheating you aren't trying so your former leader is on his knees for the Devs and he didn't even get to clear the zone.

You beat Xorbb3 on the same day as Shadows of Doom and Triton, neat. Those guilds did this weird thing afterwards and went and beat the rest of the RoF raids. I know winning raids seems like such a strange way to rank guilds and you think we should rank guilds based on what maybe what they could have done, but some people think actually winning raids is a better basis for ranking.

This not raiding thing makes you a mid-tier guild. Lots of mid-tier guilds talk about how we would have already won all the raids but we only raid 3 days a week or offer other rationalizations, you fit right into the category. Good news, they nerfed Vulak, if you have any respect for Quarken what-so-ever you should be able to scrape together 30 or so people on an offday and finish the expansion.

EGL never did that. The site Beimeith now owns did that at one point, however.

Bad players and bad strats make this raid hard. Its not broke, lol. Otherwise, a dozen or so other guilds would not be farming it on a weekly basis.

I guess the talent level of the guilds serverwide really drop off around #14 or so. There must be a pretty huge choke point around that area if guilds cannot beat this in its current form and need devs to hand them a win on it via nerfs.

Guilds below that level start to enter the demographic where the top notch players are sniped whenever possible by the top.

Not all of them go and there are definitely some good players to be had, but the ability to maintain an appropriately stocked and balanced roster is definitely shakier as you move further into the teens and especially into the twenties.

Even given a similar talent level, it's a lot harder to beat raids if you're fielding inconsistent numbers, too few clerics, too few "real" dps, too few bards, or whatever else.

Agreed with all points.

But the biggest point that needs to be understood is this: Not every guild that has beaten Xxorb 1 fields a monster DPS roster. Some of these rosters, lets take TR for example, do not have a lot of DPS on their roster. So there are support guilds out there that are beating this raid and farming it weekly without a problem. Not every top 10 guild stacks DPS like a lot of people think they do. There are some guilds in the top 10 right now that struggle to hit 1 million DPS as a guild that have beaten Xxorb 1.

So it goes back to what I was saying and what you pointed out: It comes down to bad players and bad strats.

But yeah, I guess these guilds cant help it. The choke point around #14 serverwide seems to be a pretty big one. I would have never guessed that the gap between guilds #10 and #14 would be that huge.

I disagree on the fact that it's entirely bad players and bad strats. Even with equivalent talent levels, the balances and raid numbers that some of these guilds are able to field just won't work.

Some are bad, and that's fair. Even with this tuned down a bit, they'll still be bad and they'll still struggle. The talented guilds that just can't field the large, optimized (in whichever way) rosters of your guild or mine will have a better chance to see and complete this portion of the expansion.

If this were the end-all raid, I would be for leaving it difficult or very lightly tuning it. With at least one more tier coming and this officially being a mid-tier event, it needs to be made to be more winnable by mid-tier guilds, whether it happens now or when further events come and officially place it in the middle.

Well, this *is* suppose to be a Gatekeeper raid. If you look down the line at past Gatekeepers, those were usually the "wipe 50+ times" before you beat them types of raids for those fringe guilds outside of the elite. Queen Sendaii, Vergalid, King Odeen, Aprosis, Uqua and the list goes on. None of those raids were easy and some of those even tore bad guilds apart.

I guess in the end, the instant gratification crowd wins out and wants raid wins handed to them on a silver platter if they cant beat something within 10 tries.

Oh freshcuts. I don't usually get wrapped up in this sort of thing and for this particular argument or whatever it is you call this, I don't really care. This is more like a general observation and statement. The new kids need some history lessons or perspective. This isn't even opinion, it's just straight up facts: some* of the stuff you guys are calling exploits in this thread were universally accepted and applauded raid strats back in the day. The community culture (players and powers that be alike) have changed over the years and the majority are deeming some things zomgsploitz which is amusing to a degree. So you look down your noses and wag a finger but we look at you like you're an idiot that showed up yesterday for your first day on the job.

Basically, some of us are that old guy that says "negro" still and you're the young kids that are telling us we have to say "African American". So it's probably not socially acceptable anymore but it's not done with malicious intent. Perspective. We just have our way of doing things and you have you're new dumb way of doing things. We'll die off soon like the rest of the good players from yesteryear and then you guys can get back to your raids where you confuse difficult with broken, sploit with strat and competition decided by previews and minute-by-minute time stamps. No country for old men.

*some are also legitimate exploits

It's not intended to be a Gatekeeper, it was just tuned by Absor.

Wonder how long it is before ring of valor or any other guilds still Woking on beating this start gating to avoid fireballs.

I like vegetables and chicken in my Wok.

Mechanics and tuning are 2 different things entirely. A guitar that is out of tune can still sound great with some adjusting. A guitar without tuning keys is just a bad guitar.

An exploit is only an exploit when sony labels it as such and decides to take action (sometimes retroactively) in response to it.
They clearly know that some guilds are gating on fireballs. No amount of fit throwing and whining is going to cause them to make adjustments any faster (if at all).
All this talk of legal or morally right is just plain stupid.
Now I feel stupid for posting in this thread :/

moral ambiguity

All Hail:


Or at least Hail the Elder Sporali lots!


Also which zone in NPC was used more for convorteum:


or

I agree with this completely. That is exactly the whole reason i quit raiding. We beat our heads so many times for months only to fail on a few events in VoA in my old guild. It got to the point half the guild didn't even want to log in when we went to try them. I just got sick of getting NOTHING at all for all that lost/wasted time because of over tuning or poor tuning/ mechanics or failed emotes on raid events. I love a challenge but when you have done it for months only to fail it is not longer fun, its no loner a game then.

Uhh..off the top of my head: http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=14402

Because your guild is doing it and his isn't. Duh.

Sad when half the folks scream "It's NOT an exploit!" Then the other half say they won't do it, as it's an exploit....

Then the Devs refuse to respond...

Exploit or not, folks want a response.

It is funny, you know. I remember when you guys were defending pet-tanking as logical use of abilities at your disposal that I backed you up and said "surely this is legal, they use what tools are at hand and don't exploit stuff like lockouts or geometry". Now to use another spell (gate) is totally different and you are sitting on the high horse?
Yes, we have done the emote gating after our first 2 or 3 wins (you can check the dates I assume, as you seem rather obsessed with such stuff), meaning we were quite capable to beat the event without gating, but the gating makes it a bit smoother. If a dev comes and tells me that this is an exploit we will return to the way we did it before, NP. But just because Triton says "this is an exploit OMGZ" doesn't make it so, just as it was vice versa when it came to pet tanking.