The ever-favored class

Interesting omission from the comparison chart. Does paladin mantle/guardian also benefit from Healing Adept & Healing Gift?

Based on it being focusable yes I would venture a guess that it can crit. I have no clue about the heal first being boosted by 70% and than that bonus and the base being increased again from AoTI but thats the exact kind of stuff they are omitting in their crusade. Because over healing and being a group healer isn't as cool as HT, sk epic, etc. You just point and complain despite that fact the you tank just fine and have retained everything you have always had prior. Now we want what they have.

Thats the behavior that is running rampant and I take issue with. If a paladin could only tank singles while warriors and sk's could tank multiples she would have a point. If a paladin couldn't hold aggro over dps or healers that would be a problem. If a paladin could not occasionally handle aggro on multiples I could see a problem. If another class was tanking better than paladins but not sk and warriors and it would be a problem. But none of that is the case. Its a look what SK's can do and using these points to prove my case.

The purpose of a title is to define the purpose of the context you are wanting to present. That's writing 101 and for the purpose of your title it takes away from what you are trying to accomplish if in fact you are looking for a boost in paladins instead of a nerf to sk's. You could have more appropriately made a title regarding Paladins since you feel they need a boost but instead you went in a negative direction which makes people like myself even question your overall agenda here. If you really just wanted a boost to paladins you could have suggested such.

Nevermind. Sorry, I thought we were being serious and sincere here

Man, you hit it right on the head there...over healing.

1. Over healing doesn't happen often
2. Over healing does what exactly? Do you store that heal? No.
3. SKs have many abilities that paladins have, I didn't spend my life doing an exact side by side comparison of them all. SKs can purify. SKs innately can group heal, spam able ability to tap for group HME. See: Focused Bites, Viscious bite of chaos, purity of death, theft of life - focus' healing abilities of SKs.

You act like I omitted things purposefully, there are in fact SK counterparts that negate what you've called paladin's unique abilities.

Weird. ~20% of 200k is not 150k. Either you have 100% crit rate at all times or someone is embellishing.

I really don’t agree with the way Allayna went about starting the thread but I understand why. Folks have illustrated things logically plenty of times and it falls on def ears. There’s even been rare outliers where someone like Drogba will point out some imbalances with their own class versus others and then the incorrect abilities get tampered with. Countless of times folks in beta have said abilities would be a problem and they roll into game anyway in same state and remain for year(s). If the ability ever does end up getting ‘’tuned’’, it’s often way overboard for most classes. It doesn’t take advanced spreadsheet and calculations to understand SK’s are by far the more popular class on live servers and the preferred group tank. On TLP servers Shadowknights are even more popular in comparison to Paladins. This wasn’t the case toward early years of EQ and has been going on in recent years for obvious reasons. Pertaining to Paladins though, I’d just focus on stuns predominantly. Devs look at that as a defining attribute and that greatly hinders. Much like leech type of abilities hindered SK’s from getting appropriate boosts once upon a time

don't you dare change act of valor

Your jelly and everyone knows it. Parroting balance, equally or paladin improvements after the fact is clear as day to anyone who read the thread. You want nerfs, period. Because you don't have something or your something isn't exactly the same despite it getting the job done.

Good day.

I would like to see the roster makeup of high end guilds. I would be greatly surprised if they aren't very heavily tilted to having paladins over sk's on raids.

Allayna, it is hard to take your argument as sincere when you distort or omit data that would meaningfully change the reader’s perspective. Some food for thought from someone who is probably your typical SK:

1) Thought Leech does not always crit. It does not always restore the whole mana bar and definitely does not always restore even half my endurance. Even when it does, mana is only so valuable as an SK. Our limiting factor is the long refresh on lifetaps or the fact that most of our spells ultimately deal little damage. You can also only have so much aggro ...
2) The SK’s ability to heal its group is miniscule in nature. Group lifetaps, which half a long refresh, heal less than 10% of each group member’s health. My lifetaps couldn’t even keep up with riposte damage from a RoS Tier 1 trash mob. This is not healing any more than giving a bard a HoTT’s heal hammer makes the bard a healer. Not to mention the Paladin’s healing is literally “on-demand” and group eligible, versus SK taps which are pretty much all self-only.
3) Paladin healing is substantial enough it can literally replace a healing class in the group, giving you the ability to bring another DPS, utility, whatever. Because overhealing is not valuable (as you mentioned), the paladin’s ability to heal the group makes it essentially just as effective as a cleric. Basically: If the Pally can keep the group alive, there is 0 reason to bring a cleric or take a cleric over the Pally.

I don’t think it is fair to leave healing / cures out of the balance equation. I’d happily trade thought leech in exchange for pally heals. I’d even throw in bites along with TL. Probably some other stuff too. Healing / cures is ridiculously valuable.

Triple post.

Triple Post — hotel internet!

Thank you for bringing something thoughtful to the discussion.
I can spam a group heal or a single target heal, but that is not a paladin's role. I can splash or twin splash, but even that, doesn't not heal a group to full on raid targets anymore with the amount of hp/dot/dd dmg that raids output.
I am not a priest. I am a knight. Priests are Clerics/Druids/Shaman and have recently been tuned to reflect that.

But saying we have heals so we're balanced isn't true either.

To the poster about the Thought Leech...yes, every time I hit it, which is after a death, so zero mana, I swap to a two-hander and hit it, full mana bar. So maybe it's not working as intended then.

Your role is dependent on what is needed by the group / raid at any particular moment. Over the passage of time there were some raids that required paladins to splash heal. On those raids, your role was to heal/cure. Some named in ROS put out a lot of AE dmg or do AE DoTs. When that happens, your role is either healer or support healer, and playing that role can be the difference between victory/defeat. Yes, the PRIMARY role of a knight is to tank, but it is not fair to say that the Paladin’s spells / abilities prevent it from playing multiple roles depending on the needs of the group.

The same thing can be said about an SK. Sometimes the situation calls for snap AE aggro and the SK is best positioned to achieve it. Sometimes the group wipes and the situation calls for Feign Death. Potions aside, SK is there to save the day. I think the reason that SKs react so severely to the comparisons is that the RAIDING game design frequently requires the various roles that can be fulfilled by a Pally and not those that can be fulfilled by an SK.

Now on to more productive discussions. I think it would be fair if LoH were upgraded to an PBAE beneficial ability around the caster. A “splash” around the paladin that completely heals everyone in the radius. As most of the healing generated would go towards those at full health, I don’t think is too much to give.

That's not what she wants. A massive reduction to all those SK abilities she has mentioned. And then an instant cast PBAE aggro spell on a 6 second recast that heals the group for 10k before all her other mods. While also getting a 2 minute duration aggro lock ability on a 30s recast. It won't be a problem because healing isn't cool and aggro is aggro.

??

Don't ask, just bring more popcorn. Forumquest as normal. There are better ways to address the issue that don't involve all the forum drama.

They really don't like M Q in any form do they??