The ever-favored class

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Allayna, Jul 10, 2018.

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  1. mmats Augur

    That is a poor argument, and compares apples to oranges. One does dmg to npc's with millions of hps, the other heals pc's that have <300k hps. You would be better off just saying LoH sucks than trying to make the case that 40 LoH equals 1 HT. That is an LoH every 30 seconds.... Everyone would choose that over an HT every 20min.

    This sums up the theme of this thread - "I can perform my role, but sk's get better toys". OP started based on a false premise about Mortal Coil and continues to overstate sk abilities while downplaying/ignoring paladin abilities and making false comparisons.

    If you truly want paladins beefed up (or sk's nerfed), you should be subscribing to Drogba's youtube page. ;)
  2. segap Augur

    You may not have said such, but your tone and argument infer it


    Some classes require more skill than others to achieve great results. It doesn't mean one is woefully under powered versus the other. It just means you see fewer great players of one versus the other because the effort and ability required makes the distribution of skilled players skew differently. Having some classes be easier than others to do well is good for the game. It gives people the option to play easier classes to do well and for others to have more challenging classes to master. This game succeeds more when it finds ways to appeal to multiple types of people.

    I don't disagree that Paladins could use a little boost, but this entire thread reeks of envy and calls for nerfs. Nothing positive will come out of this thread the way it's posted. it will not be in any way good for the game as a whole.
    Yimin likes this.
  3. Allayna Augur



    The theme of the counter-argument: OP overstated the abilities of SKs

    Please, give me an actual example where I've exaggerated the abilities of an SK. Because what I've done is do direct side by side comparisons or exact copies of discs between the knights.

    Also. LoH and HT are the knight innate abilities. That is why they were being compared.

    I came to this thread to bring attention to the disparity between knights.

    Throughout this thread, people have, not always politely, requested that I provide a comparison, provide alternatives or suggestions or just blatantly redirected attention at me rather than discuss change.
  4. Dreadmore Augur

    You called Thought Leech an 18-minute staunch recovery.

    But that's my only example :p
  5. Yimin Augur

    The Knights are both doing very good , I mean they smash though group content with easy , take on multiply yellow con mobs with no trouble at all , there are videos of tanks taking on up to 15-20 yellow con mobs in a group content , if you claim tanks are the favored class id agree with you ...

    But calling for nerfs to the Sk is not going to make Paladins better !

    YiMin
  6. mmats Augur

  7. Allayna Augur


    I have an SK.

    Every. Single. Time. I hit thought leech, it's a full mana bar. It's on an 18 min refresh. How is that an exaggeration?
  8. ~Mills~ Augur

    From what I have seen your comparisons are just plain bad except for 1 or 2. But this thread wreaks of veiled nerf calls and only morphed into pally desires and requests after you got called out but multiple people. It was never an attempt to better pallies until you back peddled to that.

    HT is based off mob hps, it knocks a giant chunk of hps off mobs not an outright DT.
    LoH is based off player hps, it provides a giant chunk of hps back to player but not an outright complete heal.
    They are not meant to be equal just perform at their intended function close to equal. You can read this in the latest DBG class descriptions below.


    Epic's are all over the map for every one. Sk's has scaled very well. Your 40% increase to healing would still scale as well and be more valued had your class not recived AoTI and GAoTI which I think is like 16 minutes of uptime straight of 60-73% increased incoming heals with no counters or limitations.
    Epics were never meant to be equal.


    Thought Leech and Marr's Gift is a valid comparison. I don't think anyone would have taken an issue with you asking for a boost to marr's but thats not what you chose to do.
    These were never equal even at the start but they were in the ballpark and could remain so. But your intent based on posting, tone and comparisons says nerf theirs I am not happy they have it. 35k mana back every 10 minutes isn't horrid.



    Mantles are a valid comparison. I think the reasoning here was you have an 80% uptime increase to healing mod on you that makes yours sometimes 4k worst, often is 19k better and most often is 23k better.
    Average that all out and yours in fact is better. You also fail to mention the Guardian line where your heals are in fact 2k better base on top of your 80% something uptime on AoTI and GAoTI.



    I am not going to even address AE hate. You have some and are not meant to be even with SK or War.



    Fixed IVU and Invis have been in the SK tool kit since that start of the game. I don't think anyone really cares if everyone finally got a form of fixed Invis or IVU but your parent class might if you got it and they didn't.
    Never meant to be even.




    Your final blurb comparison shows you are unhappy about the choice you made at character select. Please see the below descriptions. You and a few others dont seem happy about being a battlefield healer despite that being your choice. Now you claim parity between the classes means you should have equivalent dps and toolkits because you don't like the toolkit you chose however long ago.


    PALADIN
    Paladins are holy warriors who use blessed spells and strength of arms to fight the evil and undead of Norrath. Paladins are primarily a melee class, able to wear plate armor and wield many kinds of weapons.

    Paladins are able fighters and battlefield healers whose combat spells focus on stunning enemies and smiting the undead. They also have several spells that increase the health and armor of their allies. Every so often, paladins and lay hands on themselves or their friends to instantly grant a powerful heal.









    SHADOWKNIGHT
    Shadowknights are unholy warriors who use fear, pain, and disease to attack all that is good in the world. Shadowknights are primarily a melee class, able to wear plate armor and wield many kinds of weapons.

    Shadowknights are deadly opponents who use evil spells to slow and cripple their enemies. They steal the strength and life from their victims, using this stolen power to strengthen themselves and their allies. When needed, Shadowknights use their powerful harm touch ability to greatly damage their opponents.
    Yimin and mmats like this.
  9. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    Would you be willing to back up your unbelievable claim by turning on timestamps and using Thought Leech 3-4 times in a row in a video? (If you use timestamps, you could edit out all the downtime and we could still believe you).

    EDIT: Don't forget to drain your mana to 0 before using it. If you are only down to 80% when you are using Thought Leech, maybe your claim is true :)
    Xeladom and Yimin like this.
  10. Maedhros High King


    They are not apples to oranges. It would be more accurate to say that one is an apple that is good for you and one is an apple that is poisoned and kills you. LOH and HT are supposed to be direct opposites.
    Where do you come up with <300k hps on pcs? Maybe non tanks. I'm over 270k unbuffed friend. LOH has been lagging behind in the power scope for years compared to HT.

    Except they are not toys, they are vital class tools.
    Your attempt to devalue my argument by calling those abilities in question "toys" only shows your failure to grasp the power of these tools.
    I am not asking for nerfs, instead stating that paladin abilities should be boosted up to balance their SK equivalents.
  11. Allayna Augur


    Now you are confusing me with Maedhros as I never claimed HT was a DT.
    I never called for a nerf of SK abilities. I used SK abilities as a comparison. Was I supposed to compare to a cleric? You linking the eq game descriptions just reiterates that they are two sides of a coin, literally using the same text to describe them.

    I used abilities where SKs>>Paladins as comparison that were also meant to mimic each other. You mentioned 80% uptime on GAoTI and AoTI.
    On an SK I can rotate epic/shield flash...roll into cursed, clicking it off, hit mantle, roll into carapace...click BP, roll into unholy aura....now by this time epic/shield flash are back up...but I can still roll into leechcurse....spite....this was while swarming all of the sarnak fort in EoK. Yesterday. Running low on end/mana. Boom. Thought Leech. Rinse/repeat.

    I never said paladins were ultra weak or claimed I was unhappy with my choice at character select. I've even posted videos in tank channel for those nay sayers about how paladins are too weak to complete any content in end game.
    To address AE hate, since you won't. I'm not asking for as many AE hate abilities as an SK. I've always believe that warriors should be the biggest, baddest meat shield around. SKs should have the edge on AE hate. Paladins should have the lock on single target hate. Which is not the current state of the game.

    To re-iterate for the umpteenth time, there is an obvious imbalance. Imbalance is not healthy for the game. As we've seen with the recent changes to dots.

    I'm an advocate for balance. I notice no one commented on or made any of their own suggestions on how to bring about that balance aside from Maedhros.
  12. Denial_Sinfae Augur

    Your sk only has like 50k mana?
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  13. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    Can you disclose your source for this information? The only people who might know what something is "supposed to be" in EQ are DBG. Have they ever stated that they are supposed to be direct opposites? From my perspective, you made this up. Fake news.
    Play an SK if you like them so much. They really are a great and fun class! I don't play a pally, but they have never seemed broken to me. On raids, they seem to tank just fine (the good ones tank just as well as I do on my SK and do not have any trouble holding aggro). Plus, they can heal their group and splash cures? What's not to love?
  14. Allayna Augur

    150K nice try.
  15. Aldryn Another New Member

    I would never complain about a class that can't be Vah Shir... they're already crippled enough.
  16. mmats Augur

    They kinda are, hence the phrase "apples to oranges".

    [IMG]
  17. ~Mills~ Augur

    You are comparing an ability that scales based on mob hp and complaining its X times bigger than an ability that scales based on player hps. They are meant to serve their intended purpose relatively equal but not in fact be equal. Partially killing a mob, check. Partially healing a player, check. You want to lobby for LoH to be 250k base be most peoples guest but that's not why or how you started this.

    You never said nerf SK stuff but its clear as day that was your intent. Look at the title of the thread and your sentiment until a bit in after you knew it was go time.

    I mentioned AoTI as to why your heal was not actually inferior. Not as an entire tool kit comparison. Which just reenforces everyones read that you are in fact upset that paladins are not 1/3 warrior, 1/3 cleric and 1/3 necromancer. Because you keep continually bringing up other stuff that they have over and over and then parrot the word balance.

    If you posted a thread titled Paladin Love and requested Marr's Gift be boosted. Requested LoH be boosted. Requested your go to aggro were instant cast. Requesting Mantle fade heal was 100% equal. Requested that Guardian proc heals were 100% equal. Requested a small boost to your AE or its reuse. Requesting mana concerns to your hate be adjusted. And I bet 90% of the traffic wouldn't be here. But you chose the attack SK route and are now trying to play the pity card like you were just here for equal pally things.

    We all make mistakes but you reap what you sow. I know I wouldn't app to MS after this thread if you are the leader. These veiled nerf calls are the exact reason this game is dwindling. Its become let me burn down someone else over and over because getting change for my class is harder.
    Spellfire likes this.
  18. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    The tears raining here are going to flood Norrath and cause Xegony to crash.
    Yimin likes this.
  19. Allayna Augur


    I neither want nor need your pity.

    I brought attention to SKs power, which is EQFORUM taboo. Which says something in itself.

    Had I done as you suggested, and asked nicely for boosts to paladin it would have been a 3 comment thread that died instantly, without a second serious look.

    We'll just see on Wednesday after the patch.

    [IMG]
  20. Password1234 Augur

    To be fair to the original post of this thread, while this one specific mortal coil nerf was pointless and accomplished absolutely nothing, most classes usually don't even get pointless nerfs overturned.
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