TDS Raid Event 3: Principal Vicarum Nomia - Progression!

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Mykaylla, Dec 2, 2014.

  1. Axxius Augur

    AM4 too? Sweet Jeebus. :eek:

    Yes, pls send details to Absor, Prathun, Ngreth. I doubt that sending logs to Mykaylla can get it fixed any faster.
  2. Deillusional Augur

    You had an event 4 reset win? In our numerous wipes (there was a lot of them) before our first win, we never experienced that.
  3. Seldom Augur

    Thanks Mykaylla for updating the progress site and trying your best to keep it as legit as possible despite all the bugs going on with these raids. Seems like a thankless, no pay job O_O. Props to you
    Elricvonclief and Obiziana like this.
  4. Battleaxe Augur

    It'd be great if SOE would take over doing this. They have the means of knowing wether a win was legitimate or not, wouldn't have any motivation to cast doubt on anyone's accomplishments, and would keep private data private.
    smash and Seldom like this.
  5. smash Augur

    But should be easy to ask SoE, are all the guilds who has progressed in the raids legal wins, or are there some who are not.

    The problem comes if SoE says: Guild X has got a win, but its not legal. Then they should have that win removed, and the lockout removed too.

    But hard part for SoE would then pointing out a guild to winning illegal, in effect pointing fingers at them, which I guess they would not be interested in.
  6. Coruth Augur

    The problem is far deeper than an honest attempt to keep "Legitimate" kills recorded.

    The problem is the Bug/Lockout throw out the whole Issue of Progression.
    Unless you beat an Event before a Guild behind you can even attempt the Event

    Because you can weed out the "Illigitimate wins" but what you can't ever tell is whether the guild behind you would have been ahead of you, if they weren't Bugged Lockout for 4.5 days.

    The Illegitmate Wins can be removed from a progression site. But there's no real way counting the 4.5 day delay.
    Crystilla, Insaneox and Seldom like this.
  7. Qulas Augur

    I'd rather you do something more useful with your time and add Plane of War and the two One-Off Raids to the kill site. Other non-progression kills are listed ( Temple of Veeshan ) so using that as an excuse for them not being on there is ridiculous.
  8. Bigstomp Augur

    The same developers who wrote the code that said it was a win originally would likely be the ones verifying it was a win.
  9. Nudia Augur

    There's 5 posted wins, all by guilds that have been competitive at the high end for some time. The order and timing of those posted 5 kills doesn't instill any doubt in my mind as to the legitimacy of the kills.

    Who is complaining or trying to say that one of those 5 did not complete the raid as advertised that would necessitate such an investigation? Is it just someone being bitter about slipping down the ladder a bit? The vast majority of competitive guilds (I would venture a guess that it's actually 100%) have members that are close friends with members of competing guilds. If someone was cheating these ranks, the info would leak.
    Bigstomp and Battleaxe like this.
  10. Battleaxe Augur

    Petition to have your lockout reset so that you get a makeup try. If SOE does that, you win a little. If they don't, you lose. Simple stuff.

    Guilds have contended with charmed players not being able to cast or attack after charm broke, mobs warping though walls and summoning you, etc. etc. etc. There are plenty of it shouldn't have happened that way bugs in EQ from first release to the present time. These bugs affected when guilds beat events. Always have. While we all want to see bugs fixed its (sadly) part of the game.

    The difference is this time some of those affected have decided to cast doubt on the Guild Progression order, alleged exploitation, and go fishing for private event logs every guild I know of keeps private as part of their longstanding rules.

    Change someone's achievement record because SOE gave them an Earring of Sad Exploitation for cheating? /applaud. Cast doubt when its

    "There's 5 posted wins, all by guilds that have been competitive at the high end for some time. The order and timing of those posted 5 kills doesn't instill any doubt in my mind as to the legitimacy of the kills."

    IMO someone who would do that is trash. /shrug - that's my opinion and its very unlikely to change. I truly wish SOE would perform this function - there'd be less shenanigans and off the field gamesmanship.
  11. Bigstomp Augur


    We lost a few days through this, I don't think it really would have affected our ranking. There was enough time between us and the next after us on the event i thappened it didn't hurt us, but it could have. (took em 3 of the 4.5 days to actually fix the lockouts)
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  12. Battleaxe Augur

    I hope you understand all guilds have had when they finished affected by this or that bug in the last 15 years. You lose, and even if you shouldn't have you suck it up and try other methods not to encounter the situation that cheated you out of a win. You don't indict the entire progression system. You certainly don't post public thinly veiled accusations that others who finished before you or your friends must have cheated - submit your logs.
  13. Bigstomp Augur


    I have not suggested anything of the sort sir. Like I said above, I think we are about where I expect to be. (And I think submitting logs is a dumb idea for the same reasons you do)
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  14. Shang Augur

    EQResource would probably make an awesome progression site if someone suggested it to them.
    Axxius likes this.
  15. Arwyn-RoV Augur

    Myk, I sent you conversations and ingame emails with a link to my logfile from that raid.
    Elricvonclief likes this.
  16. Coruth Augur


    Well there were some guilds like Descendents listed on Leaderboard ahead of ROV I believe.
    They have since been removed. But the fact is someone submitted the kill from there.

    So let's be honest, it's not an unreasonable question to wonder about.

    And maybe "Logs" aren't the right way, but I don't fault the idea of trying to make it accurate do you?

    And unless you missed it, people have petititioned on lockouts, but EQ petititon system still takes days.
    So It's still hard and messes with rankings

    Progression Rankings have always been somewhat a misnomer anyway. Because other than ROI who is so far ahead of everyone that there is no doubt about their ranking, progression rankings are not a ranking of just skill, but rather often dedication. Did your guild get up at 3 am? How many days did you spend working on Event 3 or Event 4 or Blah Blah Blah.

    As long as we are going with made up solutions in this thread. Here's mine.
    Alt-V LDON Leaderboard gets revamped to be an Ingame Leaderboard.
    Soon as a raid starts everyone in DZ gets an "Attempt" Added. When you win you get a "Win Added" then we'd be able to see Char X got 1 win and 18 attempts. Char Y got 1 win in 6 attempts. And then we could say Char X's guild got the kill first, but char Y's guild was more successful they just didnt want to add off-day raids.
  17. Battleaxe Augur

    The record would be inaccurate if it allowed reported wins that weren't to be listed.
    AND if it purged reported wins that were wins. You were saying something about a desire for accuracy?

    If EGL can no longer certify its results exclude all the undeserving AND includes all the deserving it should publicly support SOE taking over this function.
  18. Maeryn Augur

    http://www.descendentsguild.org/ngf/

    There is every Descendents win for many years. If they considered something a valid win it would have a front page entry with even Velishan and Plane of War, two immensely similar raids neither of which are tracked on egl, getting front pages updates.

    If Descendents felt they won Arx2, Ghost or whatever they would make a front page update. For Mykaylla to then arbitrarily decide whether that was really a win or not is absurd. 50ish people would know exactly what happened on the raid and Mykaylla isn't one of them. It's completely unrealistic to think at least one person wouldn't let the cat out of the bag if Desc made a front page update claiming they won an event when all they did was benefit from a bug.

    Same with every other guild whether it's just an entry on EGL or is also an FP update. The chances of no one in the guild admitting that they lost the raid but got a chest, keys and lockout is virtually nil.

    Correct, it's just raw information about when guilds beat selected events for the first time if they choose to submit information to EGL. http://eq.magelo.com/profile/570196 says a lot more about Triton's ranking (and loot system) than Triton being the #8 guild to beat all CotF progression raids.

    But it's a good starting point, if you're frustrated with your guild not being able to beat a TDS raid, EGL has a list of 26 guilds that have. Or if you haven't bought the TDS expansion there is a list of 22 guilds that have beaten 8 or more CotF raids but no TDS raids that are less likely to mind if you won't have the new expansion until after Christmas.

    From that point you will need to check websites, ;join server.general, send tells to people in the guild or whatever other method you chose to find out more. While doing those things you might find out about Freelance and possibly other guild(s) that have beaten a TDS raid but don't submit information to EGL.
  19. Kiillz Augur


    dedication?? I think any one of the guilds that have beaten up to 4 ( we busted our posteriors hitting that event to beat it) would have to be dedicated, that event in itself is tough and not getting done in one day. Think you might have a argument from anyone of the guilds that have beaten any of it how "dedicated" they are just because they had work the next day and didnt get up at 3am in the morning to do so (and that by ANY MEANS is no knock on ROI for doing so) does not make any of them any less dedicated, the tag I wear and the group of people I m with atm are bout the most dedicated raiders you ll find. I also beg to differ on skill statement, I m sure you can be dedicated as hell but if your guild lacks the skill set, dont think your gonna get much done regardless of how dedicated you are.

    Just my 2cp
  20. Coruth Augur

    You realize this Post makes Zero Sense to what I was talking about?

    You linked Descendents Front Page.
    There's a Big Giant Picture of Descendents Beating Raid 1. Arx Menditis Storming the Citadel.
    I was talking about Raid 2.

    Descendents was listed as beating Principal Raid 2 on http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/progress/expansion.php?exp_id=6 without updating thier own webpage. I believe at one point you were listed as beating it before COV.

    Now I don't know if Descendents got a Bugged Kill in 2. And a random member sent it the achievement. Or if someone meant to send in Achievement1 and linked wrong one.

    I appreciate the fact that Descendent's itself didn't think it was a Valid Win and didn't update thier Own Webpage with the win on event 2.

    But someone sent it in, and it was briefly listed on there in 5th place. Now, perhaps all the proof that is necessary that Descendents did not beat Raid 2 was the fact that Descendents didn't update thier own webpage. But you were there as beating Raid 2. And it was fixed.

    Fixed = Good.

    And frankly errors/fixes like this aren't a websites fault. They shouldn't exist. EQ should not be giving bugged wins. That's ridiculous.

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