Soo... player pets...

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Nurfz, Jan 6, 2013.

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  1. huadmer Lorekeeper

    Raging servant and swarm pets provide plenty of time to cast suspend minion, which will already be buffed and ready to go, "along with burnout and any other prebuffs". If you're talking about raids, well, there will be many more pets there to give the mag plenty of time to get another pet ready.
  2. Falos Augur

    Yeah pets dont avoid mechanics and honestly some events (like grelleth) can be harder with pet tank. Grelleths DT targeting the mage directly can suck bad if fade and blur pet are greyed out. I didnt bother to read much of the topic creators post though, it's clear he doesnt read these forums so i only bothered to skim his post since he seems to have ignored the other recent pet tanking threads.
  3. Marton Augur

    I agree with Ronak.

    Why is this thread still here/not locked? I thought calls for nerfs were not allowed on SOE boards.
  4. Kreacher Augur

    Pets avoid damage better than a Tank
    Pets mitigate damage better than a Tank
    I've no idea on AC values of pets, but Pets get hit for lower DI values than Tanks.

    Pets have 200k HP's vs Tanks 120k.
    Those are all pretty proven points.

    I've seen pets used in virtually every VoA raid. Most folks will have parses from say Beasts raid which have pets in them to see. But I've seen pet tanking on Sarith, RT, Rubak, Beasts, CoB, Pillars light side.

    The question should be, why would you use a tank on the tentacle phase when a pet can with no risk?
  5. Falos Augur

    Pets don't have 200k base hp btw (there is more to it than that), if your guild has used pets to tank "virtually every voa raid" then perhaps your guild isnt a raid guild at all.

    This is just like the last thread a few people trying to get mages nerfed.... such nerfs would ruin the group game for a lot of players. Pets are great tanks but I think people tend to exaggerate just how amazing they are in special circumstances. Pets are amazing against single targets, but real tanks are better against large amounts of targets.
  6. Kreacher Augur

    I agree. Hello ToV dragons.
  7. Cone head Augur

    This thread needs to be locked as it is a direct attack on a class or classes and serves no other purpose.
  8. Rainbowdash Augur

    >OP's name is "Nurfs"

  9. Gladare Augur

    But but but.... I took 10 seconds to come up with a backstory as to why my name is Nerf.
  10. Tegila Augur

    wow this thread is a disaster.

    fwiw..the OP isnt wrong, maybe his delivering lacked, but he's nto wrong. and we've said it before in the raid v pet thread and others. the biggest problem with pets is that MECHANICS IGNORE THEM. how do we fix taht? make them NOT ignore them (then ppl will cry if they're a pet class) OR..make the mechanics ALSO ignore tanks, not all tank calsses all teh time, the just ONE person tanking the said mob at the time. That would solve a ton of problems.

    and to the person trying ot say trash drops= ss raid..not for a tank, genius, look at the ac and heroics and get back to us. for casters new group gear is nearly always better than 1 year old raid gear muchless 2 year old, but for tanks? NEVER is that true. 3 years later yeah, , some slots MAYBE you can get away with swapping to a new group drop but you're probably making a laughable mistake,

    there is a major discrepancy i nteh gearing, and "nurfz" dude is right..even with equal aas..a baz earring is all a mage needs to tank a mob. 1 earring to go with their aas, while a tank needs all those aas and all the armor and all the augs. that is never going to change sadly, so let's talk about eliminating the things that unfairly make pets better choices in many instances...the way mechanics effect 1 but not the other. gearing a tank vs a pet is never going to change, but mechanics ignoringone and not the other...does make often for tanks getting set on the bench. people play tanks because they enjoy tanking and they dont mind putting in the work, but when that work means nothing vs this mechanic or that mechanic and summoned pet after summoned pet can bypasst hose mechanics..kinda negates the points in those instances.

    as an aside thats kinda funny, and idk honestly what mechanicsms were allowing it, but though it's handy for a recovery on a raid rather than a reset, siccing pet after pet after pet, freshly summoned and unbuffed even, at a mob and then watching them live far longer than a freshly rezzed's both laughable , and sad. and petclasses can have 2 pets ready to go at once, one stuck in their pocket, us tanks dont rez in fully buffed wti hfull mana/end too. pets are free mercs pertty much, that yo ucan take into raid zones with you, but have to put more work into than yo udo mercs.
  11. Bonemasher New Member

    As a necro who has only played for 10 years or so, I'd like to say "Bollocks" to that pet threat generation thing. For mages.. yah... I guess. I never played a mage past level 4. I plyed a beast to like 71 or something.... think i played him last about 2 years ago. His pet held agro real good.

    I can peel a mob off a pet with a few casts. At least I could a month ago.

    Bonesmasher/95 Nec
    Craseon/95 War
    Hyrax/95 Enc

    PS. Note my lineup. I made a warrior cuz .... they tank better than pets. And can do cool stuff. Like not die almost instantly if things get spiky or the cleric is acting stupid
  12. Jalany Elder

    Here is the easiest way to settle this... <<<<<(SOLUTION)>>>>if your a tank that can't out tank a pet go out and get some defensive aa maybe some ac augs and learn to play your class, if that doesn't work start a thread in the tank section saying hey we would like to have this increased for this reason and here is the proof that it needs fixxing<<<<<<<(SOLUTION)>>>>

    On this not being a pet nerf thread might have gone better with "tank class boosts" instead of player pets... and if nurfz is your previously used handle for years why can i read 2 pages in and your saying your using a different handle before..

    you see the solution right?

    PS for those of you saying pets ignore mechanics hit up voa, pets can receive certain emotes and any time that a pet bypasses a mechanic on raids and is a better tank for that reason soe fixxes it. Also there isn't always a pet in the pocket so lets say made dies at some point during the raids that night pocket pet is gone... ask any mage if they have a pet in suspend for every raid and i bet your answer is probably going to be no in most cases. not to mention the amount of aa we have to spend on a pet to make it even worthwhile.
  13. Voragath Augur

    What mechanics? People keep saying this but never which ones. About the only mechanic I've seen pets consistently ignore that pc's can't is emotes.

    Some events a pet will ignore one mechanic, say a DT, and another it'll take the DT. It's all dev choice, not a pet issue.
  14. Bonemasher New Member

    Old necro joke.....

    "What do you call a mage without a pet?"
    "A dead mage."

    That's why i stopped playing one so early. If pet is dead, you got two choices. Gate, run, or die. Wait that's 3 choices. 3 really crappy choices. I think mages can mem wipe mobs now, tho. So there's that.

    I have a 94 mage, too. Forgot about that. They make pet weapons and armor for my necro. That's about how much I enjoy playing this "really awesome destroys all tanks with my pet class." class.

    Couldn't ever find pet weapons or armor in bazaar for Boner. Not for some ridiculous price. So, I just made a mage. My pet is always (unless it just got splatted) rocking armor and mage weapons.
    This is probably overpowering. Makes them too "tank like." Nerf mage armor and pet weapons!!!!

    This thread is ********. If you don't want to spend the time to gear up a tank, don't play a tank.
    I always felt bad for SK's and Pallys to be honest. They got to get all the armor, all the ac augs, and all the spells. I spent ~ 8 hours for ONE ac aug for my warrior killing greens.

    8 hours, 15 minutes...... 7:00 PM to 3:15 AM. That's a lot of PH'rs. About 17 or 18 of them.

    I'm just glad he dropped the aug. So, the spawn is not nerfed. It's just a freaking rare spawn.
    Bonesmasher/95 Nec
    Craseon/95 War
    Hyrax/95 Enc
  15. Tegila Augur

    pets are nto always better, but they should NEVER be betteru nless it's intended for htat event TO be tanked by them. simple as that. the only drawback to having a pet tank , ever, is lack of melee. thereby the only reason to use a player tank over a pet (assuming the requisite aas and EM) is that you ahve melee classes you'd like to use. For the most part that is the case: peopel want to use their melees, so they use real tanks. Real tanks are played better than pets, but all teh skill in the world isnt going to make you immune to the thigns that pets are, and yeah theyren ot immune to everythign, we know that, but htey ARE immune to thinks that player tanks are not. and beforey ou start in with gearing up better and getting aas: im max aa top-geared on myserver last i checked, and fully capable of playing my class as well as anyone. that said: i can't live freshly rezzed 1/10 as long as a freshly summoned pet can (from mages and necros with their pet aas and EM 12 or higher ear), and to top that off they jsut unsuspend antoher. Do i make use of this for a recovery? sure i do, who wouldnt? but i repeatedly see suggestions of "let's jstu pet tank it" about this and that event etc etc. I shoot the idea down all the time because it's disrespectful to the tanks as well as the melees, but a large number of people gladly offer up pets as tanks when a mob seems extra nasty for whatever reason. they should only be a holding mechanism, or usable for TRASH gorup tanking, NOT named as there are real tanks and tank mercs for that. sorry, thats how i see it. not saying they need to be lowered in any way, but that the mechanics that don't affect them need to be changed TO affect them, or they need changed to not effect whoever is tanking at the time.

    im rambling, but really my point is this: 1: there is onyl 1 reason TO use a tank other than "because we can", and that's to use melee dps as well. whereas there are many reasons to use pettanks: theyre disposable in that they dont lose xp andcan tank lot faster out of the box, there are always spares in the owners pockets, they're gearedu p to next expansion much faster, they have lot mroe hps for ae's, they hold aggro fantasticly while a tank struggles if they get knocked back and lose proximity, and of course the many mechanics that DO still ignore them whilst not ignoring the tanks (some events have at least avoided putting particular mechanics on the tank at the time, but not all events and not all mechanics taht pets do avoid)

    and 2: if you look around, the tanks HAVE been askign for upgrades in many threads, both in the tank forum and in general forum here about this raid or that mob etc etc, and many of our requests were shot down dead by devs. still waitingfor hteverdict from devs as to making all mechanicsms that ignore pets to also ignore the person top on teh aggro list, (whereas making pets NOT avoid mechanics would make events harder than theyare, making tanks have SOME of (but obviously not all) the same advantages that pets do will allow for people todo things as they'resuppsoed to be done without so much frustration that people quit the game, and without 20 rageposts a week on forums about this event or that event and this mob or that mob and for all these suppsoed nerf-calls.

    i dont see this thread as a nerfcall but maybe its because im not a petclass reading it and on the defensive, however i am a tankclass taht sees these things happen. and no, my guild doesnt pet tank everything , faras i can remember we only "pettanked" 1 and that wasnt a pet it was an NPC engineered for the purpose, however the constant comments that weshould jstu pettank this or that because it's easier...i see it alot, and though oru tank numbers are low their quality, for hte most part, are high. these threads are always one extreme vs the other but in the "real world" of eq, an overwhelming number see the advantages of pets and will not hesitate to swap to them if they see an issue with a real tank, or don't have them. sidenote: are t2 mission intended to be molod? 'cause yeah i see people take nearly a year off al lthe time, and im not referring to mages here but necros, and have nothing past t1/2 voa(raid) gear, go out their first week and molo missions in every single t2 zone, though maybe not all missions, they do at least 1 in every zone. find me another class that can do that with a bazbought upgrade (equivalent to t1/2 voa raid EM) most mages i know are too lazy to try though maybe they can too lol

    the reason people keep bringing this up is because htey see it constantly. "caster group lookign for more casters and rangers, pet-tank", "5 TA's available for xorbb 1, 5 TA's available for evantil 1, 5 TA's available BG 1, 5 TA's avail Grelleth 1" etc etcetc, and they see "what class should i make?" and the answers are always "unless you have highlevel friends, lotta cash, and/or plan on playing 40hours a week, dont make a tank class, you'll never be able to tank relevant content in the next year" ..further discouraging new tanks. the silver limitation on prestige gear limits tanks the msot, of the 4 calsses available on braonze/silver, warrior is the absolute worst to make, as they depend highly on aa ANd gear AND augs, and the aa gear and augs all suck on silver. there needs to be something to bring more tanks into the game and more to retain the tanks that are already here. most people i see that box, are tank mains, and they box because it's the only way to ensure they ahve a group. lotta clerics quit years ago because they felt slightedby mercs, well tanks have to deal with mercs AND pets taking their place.

    i did find 1 gorup mob/event recently that makes tanks quite wanted, king Tormax for 3rd partisan in Kael, at least im told by all the casters that try to do it with a merc tanks or their pet (usually tehir pet) that they cant get the mob down due to resists on theri spells, so they ahve to have melee/ranger dps and thus no pet-tanking unless the load up on rangers.
  16. Tegila Augur

    it's not their choice to ignore the mechanic, it's their oversight. theyre not using teh SAME DT spell in every event, and i hardly think they're sayign oh we better make that DT not hit pets cause omg pets are necessary to the event, they're just not realizing that the spell they chose ignores pets. DT's, charms, blurs, mezzes etc...ive seen pets get hit with them, and ive seen pets NOT get hit with them, it all depends. See, i see peopel talk about BD raid getting pet tanked (ive never seen it personally) but the reasoning for this is the avoidance of the need for tankswaps on blur/charm whatever, on the same event however i see swarmpets get charmed all the time, so it hits SOME pets but not others. same for SS2, they "fixed" some aspects liek aedd's that werent hitting pets, but htats jsut an ae, not an actual mechanic like thecharm/mez etc, and the event is still more easily pet-tanked than player tanked (wehn i say more easily tanked i mean more easily tanked, not necessarily more easily completed, thus events wehre dps is key, though a pet may live longer due to a mechanic skipping them, a player tank is always beter choice due to teh ability to use melee burns as well, however events that dont require you to race the clock with ungodly dps, that's not a consideration unless you yourself are in a hurry)

    one of the biggest thigns pets avoid that players cant, is aggro. the mech guardian missionin DSH during anniversary is the most glaring example of thedifference between pets/mercs, and real players. if a pet or a merc tanks teh CPU, all ou gotta do is range dps it down. if a player tanks it, you ahve to either: chainmezz 4-20mobs the entire time or yo uahve to hold the event til you kill each wave of adds because when they spawn they all bumrush the tank as long as it's a playertank not a pet/merc. IF this is itnended then WHY? see, it'ssimply the fact taht the adds themselves dont assist the CPU, so they dont aggro the pet or merc. a player gets mobbed with them when they spawn because they're stnading in the middleo f a group of KOS mobs, pets and mercs dont ever aggro unless their owner/group aggros. anyway this is jsut 1 example
  17. Voragath Augur

    Clearly you didn't see what happened for the SS raid nerf. What happened with that raid was clearly spelled out by the devs. The mezz (or blurr or whatever it was) missing the pets actually had a field with a value defining whether or not the pet would be affected by that spell. In that case, a dev accidentally entered the wrong value and didn't know. It was changed back. This shows that it is most likely the case every spell a raid boss casts has this field. That means it is the dev's choice and nothing to do with pets in general. That is why you can see virals hit pet in raid x but not y, AE's smoke a pet in raid x but not y, etc.

    For the rest of your post, check the other thread that was linked.
  18. Tegila Augur

    and read waht i said, exaclty waht YOU just said: it's not their CHOICE, it's their oversight. and actually, i never saw SS2 PREnerf, i only saw it POST nerf, and what you stated here, was not the case, neither was it in the thread *I* read aobut it, that wasabout teh AE's not hitting pets either, making it even MORE beneficial to use them over tanks.
  19. Jalany Elder

    Pets were never immune to AE's what they were immune to was the mez that required tank switches thus making it easier to heal 1 tank vs having to switch constantly. so yes they changed the field and fixed that.
  20. Voragath Augur

    Ok. I'll try again. You said, " ..and i hardly think they're sayign oh we better make that DT not hit pets cause omg pets are necessary to the event, they're just not realizing that the spell they chose ignores pets." That clearly states that devs aren't making a conscious decision to make spells miss pets. In fact, the devs are making those decisions. That wasn't an oversight; the dev entered the wrong value. Oversight is not the same as an error.

    The whole mess over SS2 was that the mezz wasn't landing on pets.
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