Soo... player pets...

Well, I think powerful pets are a mask of a bigger problem. A band aid if you will. People are making these classes to avoid having to actually go through the drudgery of making a tank. I'm not accusing (insert pet class) veterans of seeing the future and taking a "shortcut." I was mostly pointing out how tanks have a tough time in self progression and the comparison of the pet/foci seemed fitting seeing as how many of these hurdles are able to be bypassed with minimal effort by pet classes in comparison to what the actual player tank has to endure. It's all relative.

The melee / tanks can just use a merc tank if they aren't able to tank themselves, problem solved.

What also never gets mentioned is the owner needs gear also. No Mage with simply a pet foci is moloing a T2 named. But again the Mage needing equal gear is never brought up among other things. Which again is why this is a dumb topic. You don't simply loot a pet foci and molo everything.

That actually doesn't solve anything =(

My bard has a much better pet than you pet classes could hope for, a SK.

First, you start your thread off about mage pets, then falsely claim that you aren't calling for a nerf but for boosts to your class. If it really is about tank abilities, why did you bring up pets at all? Why didn't you discuss some of the issues that pc tanks have? Is your mitigation so bad you need multiple healers for some trash/nameds? Are you lacking proper defensives to handle the content? All you did was say pets do this and tanks don't yada yada. It is quite clear your main topic is pets and nothing about pc tanking issues.

Here's why everyone knows you are lying and are calling you out on the nerf calls, you said:
"Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person who has an issue with player pets being better tanks than player tanks in most situations minus maybe raids..."

Another problem with your post:
"...my point is that just being able to heal it that well with such little mana while the pet can mitigate damage so well coupled with the burst mage DPS is a bit much." That is clearly a statement that something is overpowered. Combine that with the above and everyone has sniffed out your sideways nerf call. Additionally, mage heals are terrible and can't keep a pet up; just slow it's death at the cost of a loss to all dps. This fact is why your knowledge about mages and pets is being discounted.

Finally, a statement that shows you are working under a false assumpiton:
"It's like its an almost accepted universal truth that player pets are legitimately viable tanks." This is true and has been since EQ launched. It's also mentioned in the class description.

There are plenty of strawman arguments too but this post will become too long if I pick everything apart in your post. I do not see an issue with melee's in the group game and that's all I see aside from guildies. I could make a complaint about casters being dead in the raid game based on my roster but that doesn't make it any more true than your strawman. Also, I don't see any tank in my guild doing any worse than my pet; same for group geared tanks.

People have pointed out that there are other threads devoted to the topic and you said you read it as well. Someone even linked where Piestro stated it was ok for pets to tank raid bosses. If pets can tank raid bosses, they are legitimate tanks in all of EQ. You have basically just admitted to starting a post on a closed topic.

If you want your class or archetype boosted, there is a forum called "Tanks" for that very purpose. Post there.

What doesn't it solve then?

Okay, let me know how moloing that named without a focus goes =) Also, I'm not directing this at Magicians alone. Necromancers and Beastlord pets are also very decent "out of the box" (minimal AAs and a pet focus) which is making it less and less necessary to have a real tank around.

And, yes, a naked Magician with just a pet focus can tank a named mob with outside healing which is my point. Throw awesome gear on the Magician and it can DPS with the best of them while support healing it's pet. Pet stats are independent of player gear and you know it. Stop making a fool of yourself.

Again, not making this about Magician pets but rather pointing out that they are becoming more and more the tank of choice because of how difficult it is becoming to tank things as a player. So please stop trying to make this about your class and if you have nothing of use to contribute in regards to making the tanking aspect of the game better then feel free to stop posting useless replies.

Because the mercenaries were the first way in which tanks weren't really a necessity and then the pets were the icing on the cake. The fact people are able to more than make do with these options is why tanks aren't seeing the kind of attention they need.

If your pet couldn't tank that named and your merc was too sketchy to chance it, what would be the outcome? Well, obviously a mass unsubscribing but also a much wanted and needed buff to the classes that were designed to tank those mobs.

So, in short, I used the Magician pets as an example because they are the most blatant offenders in this scenario. The fact that Magician are being created in swarms everyday just further bolsters my point. People are tired of the tank treadmill and constant headaches. I'm not asking for a naked tank to tank a raid boss or have loot handed to them. So please just be open minded and civil when responding or don't respond.

Also, you are just another Magician who feels threatened. Please just stop.

For someone who claims that his/her agenda is to boost player tank abilities... you sure do talk a LOT about magician pets. Leads me to believe that your agenda is not what you publically have stated. In which case this thread needs to be locked since it is a violation of forum rules.

What do you think the point of tank mercs was exactly?

To tank for classes that can't tank. Why must you try so hard to be clever?

Like a pet for a Mage or necro?

Again you want pet nerfs not tank boosts. Your entitled to your opinion, however trying to claim otherwise is comical. So a magician pet with only a foci and no AAs ( like I said) is going to go and tank T2 named nbd? Also I said molo meaning they would need to do the rathe tasks and then on their 10k mana pool kill mobs. And of course their low hp owners surviving AEs. Again the owner needing gear or both needing AAs never gets mentioned.

For the person demanding facts, pet threat generation is more than ample to hold aggro against any player who isn't intentionally trying to pull threat, their mitigation is as good or better than most group geared players, and their HP are very similar in most situations with minor differences here and there based on pet/class.

Anyways, I'll just leave you guys with this. Let's all assume I had never mentioned Magician pets in this thread. Please disprove what I'm saying. Go ask any tank (who isn't an ego-hog) how things are going. I promise you they're sick and tired of the state of things. Raiding to get better gear thanthat from group encounters is not a viable excuse, obviously. I apologize if I offended anyone with the pet talk but my focus (no pun intended) was set on brainstorming community wide solutions to this problem. It was not to stir an incessant barrage of overly defensive responses.

No, I don't. People are going with pets because they are actually superior in terms of tank and spank right now to players. I was hoping to get some creative solutions to buffing player tanks enough to be useful but not enough to disrupt order and balance. Before someone implies that I, or any other group geared tank, are just horrible, consider that any pet class you've grouped with is just as bad. It goes both ways. This close minded mentality hurts, not helps, your game.

I thought you were going to stop talking about pets?

Yes, like the Magician or Necromancer pet where the master does top shelf damage (albeit Magician doesn't rival a Necro) with a pet that tanks just as good or better than another class. Those two classes.

Once again, this is being made about pets and not about potential solutions. I used them as an example because they are replacing player tanks (who are, in fairness, not on par for current content also). Toning down player pets only makes it worse. That has been my point all along.

Cute. You're not impressive. I promise.

Then u title the thread tank boosts, and ignore anything with pet tanking except their abilities. You chose to single out pets and got called out on your nerf call. When tanks get geared, they are fantastic and make pets look like garbage. How do u boost them when they lack gear then remove the boost when they have it? That is the biggest issue with the situation, tanks are backloaded so if they get front loaded it will be overkill.

Not pets, it's on the tank setup that is the issue. Which is why mentioning pets to get tank boosts is funny. Bring up their abilities not how little gear or how much gear is needed. No one ever includes all the factors, you included. Which makes it one sided.