Threaten to quit? Hell.. Haven't many quit or retired due to our lack of sustained DPS already? There seems to be a rather high shortage of Rogues these days, last of a dying breed to speculate with few raid slots open for Rogues (with obvious reasoning). -Though, the Knifeplay buff was a good start. You guys are right, whereas our backstab crits are definitely holding us back. They need to unleash us!
The Knifeplay change came rather unexpected, as soon as i tested it, it felt like a Bandaid to patch up our broken backstabs. I hope i'm wrong, and maybe they are in the works on fixing backstab and the Knifeplay change was just something we needed in addition. Only time will tell.
Agreed. It's a suspicious change, but I haven't got any info on why it was done yet. Also I wouldn't say rogues have "lack of sustained DPS" these days. For sure we *did* and it did indeed cause quite a few fellow rogues to just fade into the shadows and not return. However now with Knifeplay we're quite reasonable sustained. Not the top by any stretch, but a huge improvment still. The main issue now is we're totally trampled on burn by ber, wiz and mage. We're basically on par with nec/mnk for burn while being behind them on sustained. Right now Twisted Shank is comparable with Frenzied Stabbing, but fixing the backstab bug will change that significantly.
*would definitely like to see some upgrades for our older discs* However...this really needs to be fixed first, to prevent any potential future nerfs because they fix it later and then our 'upgrades' are way too powerful. ... *hopes they get around to looking into and fixing this very soon!*
I'd look in to various crit aa/discs/adps going too high and it cappng you like we had for to hit going too high as rangers with outrider's accuracy aa + our self buff. It only affected 10000% archery hit spells for us(other lesser like 600% spell line was unaffected) hence you seeing it on 1 skill also. You can probably find it faster than the devs since more of you guys would be working on it.
We've already pretty much detailed what causes it...because it's pretty much any damage booster ability we have that can cause it these days it seems. I'm pretty sure even our Mrylokar's Rigor proc can cause it...or it comes really close to it. It's basically a damage threshold and not any specific abilities themselves.
Is there a chance that we are getting crits that are simply not announced as such? I ran a monk kick parse with 100k kicks with and without infusion of thunder (our weak version of RF), that appears to have the same behavior as shown for you, but my overall damage was more or less inline with expectations with and without.
Some of them are doing what you mentioned, yes. However...we have hits that, once they get over a certain threshold, never have the chance to crit. They seem to completely lose the ability to altogether. Which is what we're referring to more than the case you're referring to. ^^ Of course, I'd like to see the display bug you're talking about fixed as well...but this needs addressing first, imo. -_-
Just to let you know that monks have gone looking for this bug in their kicks and now seem to be finding it too. So it's a cross-class issue, most likely a cap in all melee attacks. Maybe berserkers would demonstrate it easiest, but I'm not sure what their top damage multiplier is along with their top weapon damage? (Or do they have a similar skill attack - frenzy?) I've fed back more data to the devs, but obviously being Christmas I don't expect a reply yet. My current theory is that there is a hard cap of 20000. If we generate a hit (pre-damage-bonus) for less than that then it can crit and will get multiplied up (by between 1.7 and 2.3 depending on rank of Assassin's Wrath). If it is higher than 20k, then it doesn't even check for crits and it's just a normal attack instead. I verified this by doing repeated parses on test server with differing Assassin's Wrath ranks and the max critical hit is always close to 20000*(1.7 + 0.1*assassins_wrath_rank). I'm hoping the monks can confirm that. If so it gives the devs a nice magic number to search for, which ought to make finding it easier. OUGHT TO, but who knows given EQ legacy. Anyway, Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year. (It's better that way around - who wants to only be merry for Christmas?)
Berserkers are parsing burns up to 290kdps in 60s...... vs. Are there any other rogues parsing burns over 150kdps in 60s? Ready, set, Debate!
It's broken IMO, but it's also irrelevant for this topic. The cap on critical hits won't change that either. Infact given berserkers have far higher critical hit rate than any other melee class it may affect them nearly as much as rogues.
What do parses look like in comparison for an entire evening of rogue versus berserker? Who is doing more over all commutative? Bursts are nice and all. Looks good as far as Ephalus is concerned but if a base argument for change can be made, the whole output has to be used.
Answer - monks and mages . Strictly rog vs zerker is a closer battle and will vary depending on occasion.
To speculate Langya -- Our DPS is evenly matched sustained depending upon event, but we have to overcome more then a Berserker does.. -Positioning "behind" the mob at all times for highest potency. -Keeping our poisons up -Regulate and time discs accordingly to get maximum output throughout the whole event. Furthermore, maybe if they fixed our backstab crit rate this problem would fix itself. That is what it all boils down to on this thread. -Obviosuly , Berserkers crit rate is working as intended
Yup. Well aware of that. I was raiding up until the end of RoF and then quit that aspect of the game. I never saw the influence of Knife Play disc as a result but typically before monks had their phoenix moment rogues and zerkers were about even, with zerkers sometimes falling behind depending on how often they were dead/out of endo. Casters of course beat everyone so the melee just didn't bother looking at them. Was crit rate broken in RoF or recently?
Large crits have probably been broken for years, maybe even a decade, who knows. What's changed is that we're now routinely managing to produce 20k+ non-crits and they're the ones affected. In the past no one noticed as we didn't get many.
Interesting thread, if I have this right you believe non crit damage from a single normal swing appears to be hard capped at 20k damage. I will do some checking of my logs tomorrow to see if it's affecting berserkers.
