It was a problem last expansion too and we were totally demolished by monks there too. I suspect it's been like this for ages but it only becomes really noticable when weapons and abilities gain in power. You are right in that we have mostly caught up with monks again, but IMO that's not particularly balanced. If a mob rotates a lot to cast or has a poor pin rogues suffer hugely for dps, monks don't. If a mob moves around berserkers suffer hugely for dps, monks usually don't. If we're dealing with lots of short lived trash monks won't really lose dps but rogs will as it's hard to always get in position for BS on a 5sec duration mob. If a mob does lots of AE ramp we all suffer, but monks significantly less than rog & ber. Why therefore would we expect monk to be the top or even equal to the top melee dps? They don't need nerfing as they're not so bad vs wiz, mage and nec. The other melee dps still need improvements and fixing this bug is one of them.
That's my question I guess. Are you claiming it's a bug rather than working as intended for balancing?
Its a bug. There cant be any justification for that and noone ever mentionned it before. The only limitation to backstab back in the days was to separate BS damage from normal damage on piercers.
I'm 99% sure it's a bug or at least an artificial cap to stop something breaking should backstab values ever attempt to get that high. EQ has had artificial caps before to stop things from wrapping around. It's possible this is the reason, but we don't know until the coders investigate it yet. Certainly the devs have never stated there is a specific game-tuning reason for its existance. Eg remember assassinate and headshot old caps? They were 64k IIRC, or there abouts. The reason probably being a 16-bit limit somewhere for a while (now removed). Old world bosses used to have a maximum hp count of 32k for similar reaons. Possibly there is a remnant of an old check floating around in the code.
Keep in mind that I believe there are melee hits that are well over the assassinate hits we see now (though, they do have a long reuse, but the point is they can happen), if you use your abilities right (not for rogues, but I won't list specific classes because I don't want to see that nerfed...I'm just using it as an example as to why i think it's a bug/oversight and that there probably shouldn't be any technical limitations on it these days if hits bigger than 100k or so can happen with melee hits as it is). I can't help but think this is either a bug or a deprecated piece of code as mentioned that is no longer necessary because the EQ code has since been changed to allow the bigger hits (not to mention, this may possibly, though I don't know for sure, fix rogue dps and put us back where we should be). Hey Brogett, have you tested to see whether or not Knifeplay causes us to hit and go beyond that critical cap? As well as Lethality (the proc from Etherium Blades AA)? I'm curious if those low % mods are causing it to break our crits, as well...because if so, that means we're losing even more dps than just when we're using Rogue's Fury.
I meant the *old* assassinate cap. There are dozens of melee attack types that break that old 32k (or 64k?) limit it had including our own backstabs. I haven't tested Knifeplay, but IMO it will be any backstab attack type that goes beyond that figure, as it is apparent in onslaught and massive strikes both of which are coded as a generic skill attack of bs type.
Yes we are still waiting for a fix, let's hope we will not have to wait for too long, this bug is really frustrating.
RF and Knifeplay don't stack with each other. Matter of fact, anything in the form of a combat disc you were to click while Knifeplay is going, it overrides it. That's what i have seen anyways.
Did you read the thread at all? this seems like a troll post. no one is trying to use knifeplay with rf.
I never said anyone did. I was simply pointing out that RF doesn't stack with Knifeplay. And I'm the one trolling? Look at yourself.
I think it was just a rude way to say that your comment was out of subject. You can post it elsewhere, the fact RF and knifeplay doesnt stack is known and intended by devs though. - And ... another test update and still no fix to BS bug btw.
Do you think you can tell us who gave you this confirmation? Or maybe one of the Devs would be kind enough to post a reply on our thread? Is this really asking too much? Please?
I dont like giving sources without their approval so i will pass on that but you are right the best would be a kind dev come here and give us some info, i think we deserve it, we have been patient and respectful so far. Or maybe we need to threaten to quit and go childish to have an answer? from what i saw on some other thread its maybe the way to do...
Really, if Songsa isn't up in arms, we can safely take his word it's being worked on. I prefer patience at this point. We have made our stand ( with other classes backing us up as well ) I'm positive dev's understand the situation and are handling it. We are rogues anyways, patience is our greatest virtue fortunately enough for us .
*patiently waits for an opening and then plants his dagger firmly in Krickitt's face!* ...because I'm patient and deviant like that! I agree with this, though. Unless awhile goes by without any sort of thing happening at this point...I'd say we shouldn't get all vocal (and potentially whiney -_-) about it like some other classes who I won't name personally do.
I'm wondering whether the change to Knifeplay to make it work on all hits and not just backstab is at all connected with the bug. Is it a sort of apology? Is it because they think we need it? Or does it mean they expect it'll be some time before backstab is fixed? (I've no idea.)
If one dev could not ignore rogues posts / PM maybe we could have some infos. It is just not respectful to let a community with a bug like that hitting our main DPS skill without any answer.
