Yes as Songsa says its fixed, although Monks did get the better end of the fix as it has shown to have been affecting their high damage kicks even more than our Backstab, at least with the testing i have seen/done with the monks i know. It should go live January 21st with Hate Rising unless the date has been changed for the release. I also want to say thank you to all of the dev's and coders that worked so hard to get this fix for us. Hopefully now when the T2 release is in beta monks & rogues can be tuned properly now that the fix has been implemented. So, Thank You!
A zerker whinging to me said he'd post parses of how overpowered rogues now are once he did a raid on beta. I've got no post yet... Still waiting ;-) My conclusion is obvious - it's a small change, but a necessary one to fix now as the effect is small now (so easy to balance) vs large later once we gain higher damage through new AAs, discs and levels.
Its only BS and BS is only one part of our dmg (around 30% on typical fights, a bit more on short burns) so it's easy to control and we have still huge margin to reach best burst classes. Monks kick dps is higher % of their total dmg and higher dps than BS atm from what i can see, that doesnt make sense imo if we consider kicks an ability that can be done from every angle vs BS only true power in the back, or if we consider the history of kick dps vs BS dps since the beginning of EQ.
How might this all be parsing out? Would be nice if the impact was known before the devs make other adjustments so we don't get more broken classes. I would hate to see the champions of balance get this bug fixed and then get much larger changes then needed with spells and AA in the near future. Getting more fixing then is needed like team evil burstained.
imo this was an important fix that will eventually directly impact all melee classes if it went unchecked. Probably for the best they fix this now and then retune rogues / monks accordingly after they parse out the data, it's not like this crit fix is gonna make rogues or monks significantly start outparsing wizards now anyway.
Look at the parses with-bug I posted much earlier on. You'll see how few backstabs we normally crit, and then you'll see the lower crit percentage on our special forms of backstab. You can do the math and work it out. I did this for a recent burn and it came out at +2.7% overall dps gained by adjusting for the expected crit percentage. That wasn't an optimal burn (it was a bit long), so I'd say maybe 5% in better conditions. Basically you probably won't notice the difference unless you're looking for it. The key thing is they fixed it *before* it became a major issue.
Because it should be parsed by those that know what they are doing for an accurate parse and we have seen if its not a simple single ability to parse this excludes the dervs as well. They are just to far out of touch to accurately guage what is and isnt possible without someone else showing or explaining it. Real live parses not 3 minute hypotheticals. I would not guess that only 2 sand giants would do the job I would test it out in a real setting to assure that 3 or 5 were not required! I remember a certain wizard at math pun intended telling the world 150,000 dps was the max and that they would run out of mana very quickly despite a quite a few people claiming otherwise. The Dervs choose to believe him and did other adjustments as well and we suddenly have a broken monster. So would rather be safe then sorry.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you really trying to imply that I'm not someone who knows what they are doing for an accurate parse? lol. My parse was a live parse, but the bug hasn't been fixed there yet so the calculation of the impact is hypothetical yes. I can't do anything else as I can't summon a raid force out of thin air to test it on beta or the test server. However do the math yourself if you don't believe me. Just look at the parses I posted right at the start: That's a parse under disc, with Rogue's Fury AA and Frenzied Stabbing Disc against a guild hall dummy so the disc didn't fade and the parse is longer than we'd normally be able to obtain for that disc. Basically our top combo for backstab damage. Now look at the breakdown of backstab. We have 3 main sorts, normally collapsed together by Gamparse but I wrote my own parser to split them apart. We have normal Backstab from using the BS skill. I had 635 of them land of which 25% critted. I also had 23 incursion attacks (labelled Battery in my parser as I wrote it some time ago and didn't update the category). Only 3 critted, but we should expect the same 25% so I missed out on 3 more. I also had 180 Massive Strikes. They're automatic procs (like the recent Monk Thunderfoot ability) and can fire from any backstab type including incursion and even massive strike itself. Again I'd expect the same crit rate, so it looks like I missed out on around 21 of them. Now consider that with max AA my backstab crits do 2.3x damage, so a hit that should have been crit but was capped and dropped back to a normal attack means I only got 1x damage and missed out on an additional 1.3x. So I could add 21*1.3*average_massive_strike and 3*1.3*average_incursion to get the additional damage lost. Do the math and it works out as an extra 920k on top of my total 16 million, ie 5.7% more backstab damage. Bear in mind that backstab even on a burn is only around 50% of my total damage output (and non burning it's more like 35%), and you see this doesn't have the capacity to add that much. I'd like to see some real life parses too as it would give me more confidence that I didn't make a silly mistake in my calculations, but until I see any concrete evidence all the "woe, woe and thrice woe" out there is just rhetoric and hyperbole. So far we have people presenting data that you don't want to believe, and people claiming doom which you appear to prefer to believe.
I was saying me who doesn't play a rogue should not be trying to parse it out. Figured by now someone on beta or test who knows what they are doing in a raid setup has tested it and wanted to know the actual in game impact will be. A 5 or 6 percent boost would make a big difference in what should come later if the intent is to balance. Otherwise as I said it could be burstained all over again. Where 3 dervs say hey rogues need help and ignore this 5 or 6 percent boost and ignore what the other 2 do and you end up with 3 more boosts that end up being to over the top.
Wow for someone who doesn't know what he's doing with the parse and such he must have got really lucky to point out the exact point this was broken at after it was missed by the only people who can do parses accurately ;p
/shrug.. Let's hope it actually is op'd.... (doubting it looking at numbers)... but perhaps if it is the powers that be will finally take a loot at classes that actually are op'ed and fix other issues that were not completely broken , for a change. No matter how broke these 2 classes become will never be as broken as the 1-3 classes that totally screwing it up for everyone....
